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Sensor Forum Batteryless temperature sensor
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  • Replies 7 replies
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  • temperature sensor
Related

Batteryless temperature sensor

obones
obones 1 day ago

I have a fridge with two compartments, one for "fridge" temperature elements, and one for frozen foods.

As it's showing its age, I want to monitor the temperature in both parts to be sure everything is still edible.

For the fridge part, placing a zigbee sensor powered by a 2xAA or CR2032 battery is actually working fine, the battery is not too weakened by the 2°C temperature and the metallic body plates are not attenuating the signal too much.

For the frozen foods parts, it's a bit more complex as temperatures go as low as -25°C. On top of that, because the thermostat is is in the fridge part, it happened in the past that the compressor never turned on because the temperature in the garage where it is located reached 4°C, effectively within the thermostat set temperature.

As a result, I wanted to both have a quick way to check the current temperature, while having a history of said temperatures and to get this, I installed a zigbee sensor with a wired temperature probe like this:

image

This works fine but the probe cable is quite thick (3mm) leading to air leakage at the location where the cable is getting through the door seal.

Using a small scalpel, I was able to strip the outer insulation to get access to the three inner cables which are way thinner, hoping this would restore the seal effectiveness.

Sadly, while this is better, this is still not enough, ice is building up inside, starting along the three cables as can be seen here:

image

I had removed most of it two days before taking this picture and it's already back.

So now, I'm trying to figure out an alternative for this and NFC/RFID came to mind as this would allow to get a sensor without batteries getting frozen inside the compartment, thus not requiring any wire to get into it and thus no longer interfering with the seal function.

With the appropriate search terms, I stumbled across this reference design from TI: https://www.ti.com/tool/TIDM-RF430-TEMPSENSE

But this gets me even more questions:

  1. What cost for creating this board?
  2. What tool to program the MCU? and what cost for this tool?
  3. What to use to read back the temperature? I have RPI Pico W or ESP32 at hand for the wifi communication.
  4. Would reading work through the metal sides of the fridge?
  5. Would this work if the sensor is at 90° with respect to the reader?

For the last question, this stems from the fact that if question 4 answer is "no", then the RF waves would need to work through the 1/2 cm gap left by the compressed seal when the door is closed, as seen here:

image

From what I grasped reading various articles, the longer the distance between the RFID tag and the reader, the larger the reader's antenna would need to be. I even saw 60cm diameter antennas, which, well, won't fit here at all.

Do you think this RFID/NFC tag idea is worth exploring? Or would you suggest an alternative like cold resistant batteries if that exists?

Thanks for your insights.

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Top Replies

  • michaelkellett
    michaelkellett 1 day ago +2
    I can suggest two alternatives - both of which I use. 1) Use thermocouples with thin wires - OK with most seals. 2) Use pretty much any kind of sensor and drill a hole though the side of the fridge…
  • beacon_dave
    beacon_dave 1 day ago in reply to michaelkellett +1
    michaelkellett said: Note that this is a working fridge with a slight auto defrost issue. Quite often the auto defrost fridges have a drain hole. I think it leads to a drip tray under the unit rather…
  • dougw
    dougw 1 day ago +1
    NFC could work, although I haven't tried this specific application. I did however do a battery-less temperature sensor using RFID frequency to transfer power - see Klingmagon .
  • michaelkellett
    michaelkellett 1 day ago

    I can suggest two alternatives  - both of which I use.

    1) Use thermocouples with thin wires - OK with most seals.

    2) Use pretty much any kind of sensor and drill a hole though the side of the fridge.

    These suggestions are not made lightly - I have evidence:

    image

    Drilled hole in the side of fridge - sealed around two thermistor wires with bubble wrap. Note that this is a working fridge with a slight auto defrost issue.

    image

    The sensors - one is for the fridge in general and one for the load - no load at the moment so they are both just resting on the floor.

    image

    The fridge controller - the display is telling me that the F(ridge) temperature is 6.5 and the L(oad) temperature is 6.0. (Warm because I just had the door open for  a minute or two to take pictures.

    The controller display cycles and also shows the ambient and compressor temperatures and if the compressor is on or off.

    I modified the fridge and made the controller for a job about 10 years ago but now I just use the fridge to keep my cheese and butter cool and my mint sauce frozen.

    Drilling fridge walls is easy - usually very thin layer of metal or plastic sheet on each side of insulating foam.

    MK

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  • BigG
    BigG 1 day ago

    There is a new(ish) RFID tech that's on the market, which technically could work. It's called RAIN.

    https://therainalliance.org/what-is-rain/

    However, it may be too expensive for the hobbyist market. I am not sure myself.

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  • beacon_dave
    beacon_dave 1 day ago in reply to michaelkellett
    michaelkellett said:
    Note that this is a working fridge with a slight auto defrost issue.

    Quite often the auto defrost fridges have a drain hole. I think it leads to a drip tray under the unit rather than just dripping onto the floor. Perhaps there is already an existing route through this drain ? 

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  • dougw
    dougw 1 day ago

    NFC could work, although I haven't tried this specific application.

    I did however do a battery-less temperature sensor using RFID frequency to transfer power - see Klingmagon.

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  • Gough Lui
    Gough Lui 21 hours ago

    If you want very thin wires, perhaps try a thermocouple bead to an external reader circuit or meter? You might need some special covering to make it truly air-tight (otherwise you will have frosting issues).

    - Gough

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  • obones
    obones 21 hours ago in reply to beacon_dave

    Indeed, but in my case, it only goes to the fridge compartment, not the frozen food one. That one does not have auto defrost.

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  • DAB
    DAB 9 hours ago in reply to Gough Lui

    I agree, flat cable would be the way to go.

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