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Experimenting with Supercapacitors
Experimenting with SuperCapacitors Connectors Forum Is EDC and EDS family ESR really in ohm unit?
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  • confusion
  • experimenting with supercapacitors
  • esr
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Is EDC and EDS family ESR really in ohm unit?

misaz
misaz over 1 year ago

In EDC (and EDS) datasheets ESR @1kHz for all caps is specified in Ohm unit

image

but in most other supercap families it is specified in mili ohm unit, for example from DGH datasheet:

image

Is it correct or is it mistake in datasheet? I searched for methods for measuring ESR, but unluckily I do not have required vaweform generator and I did not find any way how to easily replace it. So, my only way is checking documentation. I originaly thought that it is mistake and Gough Lui in his comparison blog ( What’s Super about Supercapacitors? – Part 2: Types, Vendors, Safety & Specifications ) also "corected" it to miliuohm units, but in comparison sheet (https://www.cde.com/resources/downloads/Briefs/Supercap-compare.pdf) it is refered with the same unit and I do not think that CDE did the mistake twice.

So my question to all who can measure ESR is what is true? Is ESR of EDC and EDS capacitor families in range of ohms or miliohms?

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  • shabaz
    shabaz over 1 year ago in reply to Gough Lui +3
    There's some crazily-low ESR EDLC types in a flat format. TDK has some: https://product.tdk.com/en/search/capacitor/edlc/edlc/catalog For a project a while back I obtained one which is claimed 300…
  • Gough Lui
    Gough Lui over 1 year ago +2 verified
    Nice catch - my apologies, I didn't even notice the unit switcheroo. I had assumed they all used the same units based on reading the radial datasheets first that I didn't see that they said ohms! CDE are…
  • misaz
    misaz over 1 year ago in reply to Gough Lui +2
    Nice. Thanks for clarification. Looks like EDS and EDC has significantly different structure internally in comparison to radial supercaps.
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  • Gough Lui
    +1 Gough Lui over 1 year ago

    Nice catch - my apologies, I didn't even notice the unit switcheroo. I had assumed they all used the same units based on reading the radial datasheets first that I didn't see that they said ohms! CDE are correct.

    If you look at my measurements, I would say it is correct as I was measuring multiple ohms for all coin cells:

     What’s Super about Supercapacitors? – Part 3: Measuring Capacitance & ESR 

    As a result, what I thought was out of spec is actually in-spec! A nice finding indeed.

    - Gough

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  • misaz
    0 misaz over 1 year ago in reply to Gough Lui

    Nice. Thanks for clarification. Looks like EDS and EDC has significantly different structure internally in comparison to radial supercaps.

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  • Gough Lui
    0 Gough Lui over 1 year ago in reply to misaz

    Yes, it is likely they are something more akin to a battery in a paste composition perhaps or maybe layers, as there isn't space for the "scroll" type structures which increase surface area and reduce ESR as a result.

    That being said, I haven't opened up a coin-type one yet, but I might do now that you mention it ...

    - Gough

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  • misaz
    0 misaz over 1 year ago in reply to Gough Lui

    thanks, but you do not need to destroy it just because of me. I am not chemistry expert, so I still will not understand it very much.

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  • anniel747
    0 anniel747 over 1 year ago in reply to Gough Lui
    Gough Lui said:
    I haven't opened up a coin-type one yet, but I might do now that you mention it ...

    Thumbsup That would be quite interesting. 

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  • Gough Lui
    0 Gough Lui over 1 year ago in reply to misaz

    The challenge is to learn, and that's one way to do so. I've already destroyed many as part of my learning journey so that's all good. Might do it sometime in the next couple of days ... it'll probably make its way to my final blog too ...

    - Gough

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  • shabaz
    0 shabaz over 1 year ago in reply to Gough Lui

    There's some crazily-low ESR EDLC types in a flat format. TDK has some: 

    https://product.tdk.com/en/search/capacitor/edlc/edlc/catalog

    For a project a while back I obtained one which is claimed 300 milliohm and is thinner than a PCB (quite handy for hiding, for "dying gasp" scenarios if someone disconnects a battery!). However the Cornell Dubilier ones look a lot more robust, and I wonder if they maybe prioritised other features over ESR for that particular range. I've no idea though.

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  • shabaz
    0 shabaz over 1 year ago in reply to Gough Lui

    There's some crazily-low ESR EDLC types in a flat format. TDK has some: 

    https://product.tdk.com/en/search/capacitor/edlc/edlc/catalog

    For a project a while back I obtained one which is claimed 300 milliohm and is thinner than a PCB (quite handy for hiding, for "dying gasp" scenarios if someone disconnects a battery!). However the Cornell Dubilier ones look a lot more robust, and I wonder if they maybe prioritised other features over ESR for that particular range. I've no idea though.

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