Smart Drive motor as a motor 'and' as a generator?

That contactor could be overkill depending on your regen brake load. You might be able to get away with a smaller relay or mosfet

Hi

I have drawn up the schematic as I see it at this point.  Points to note are that the motor is in a 3-phase star configuration.  I have also drawn in a relay to allow to switch between the motor and generator wiring.  The hall sensors from the motor to the motor controller will also have a switch to disconnect them so that in generator mode the controller does not receive spurious signals.

I have also attached a drawing of the wiring of the motor as it is configured at the moment in regard to the coils. 

I would like to know what controller I would need to be able to run this.  (And perhaps it is the one in the link above suggested by Don, but this does seem like it manages more power than I have), and any additional detail with how to install control the controller would also be appreciated.

Look forward to your comments.

I guess I don't understand why it needs a separate generator mode when most of the drives you will run it with can do regeneration.  If you need the separate mode just to prove it's regenerating energy, just put an current meter in series with the phases (or the input bus) and show the direction of current changed.

Edit: I was assuming you were running the motor and then switching to generator mode to brake it, if that is not the case, then using the regen braking of a motor drive might not directly fit the application for you

Hi Michael

There are three wires into/out of the motor for power and 5 for the hall sensors.  Here is a pic of it without the hall sensors.

Cheers

Hi

I was not aware that the driver could handle the regen mode, hence why I was looking to 'externally' manage generation. 

What I need to do is start the unit as a motor and run it until it syncs with the energy input (wind turbine or surrogate), then I turn off the motor and it will run as a generator, continuing to spin, and generate power, thereby demonstrating its function as a generator.  If I can show that the generator is, in fact, generating power (or works under load) then this proves my concept, and I can move on.

Does that make it clearer and does that help you decide if I can use the regen mode of a drive, or should I stick with my original plan which was to disconnect the 'motor' externally and switch to a generator mode.

Thanks

Are you able to tell me how to load a pdf in this forum, because then I could load up the article I have, and perhaps you and others can review this and then suggest suitable parts?

Thanks

Here are some brushless drives that are 230VAC and take hall effect inputs. They do regen.  Not sure how well they'd do with your motor if it has strange windings.  You could always talk to their apps engineer and he might be able to help you out

PML Series

Hi

Thanks for the link.  I have sent them an email with some of my data, so hopefully they can suggest something.

In the meantime, I hope there might be a cheaper suggestion. 

Thanks again.

It's still there as a digital edition, or contact the publisher (Jude).

From what I can tell, they aren't extremely powerful, but the fact they could easily control them, and they didn't need a gearbox, was what made them popular.

My understanding of mechanics suggest that any time you have a gearbox you lose efficiency, that why they reconfigure these for the required voltage rather than try to change the speed.

However I don't know your final design/plan so I'm sure you will have it sorted.

We use an ASCO phase detection system on our generators, that when the phases match, it switches the load.

Once they match they don't change as the smaller generator has trouble driving the much larger generation system.

Mark

This picture doesn't correspond well with your spec showing different restances for phases. It looks like a traditional 3 phase multipole winding. Do you have a controller (or better still a schmeatic of one) from a washing machine.

If it's a simple 3 phase winding it's not (that) hard to make a controller but you would do better to buy one.

MK

Hi Michael,

Due to me still being a newbie in this area, I can only offer up the info I have gleaned from the internet.  I think the reason this is not a simple stepper is because of the arrangement of magnets in the rotor.

As I still haven't figured out how to upload or attach a pdf in this forum I have converted the article I have on this motor into a series of jpgs.  So I will post them below.   To maintain image quality I have kept the file size large which means there will be only one page per post below.  Hope this helps explain why this is a more complex motor than a straight stepper.

Thanks

If your motor is like this one than it is just a simple 3 phase multipole motor and you may be able to drive it as this article suggests.

I cant recocile this with the spec data you posted:

Motor

Electronically commutated direct drive 3 Phase brushless DC Motor.

Motor resistance

                              Per Winding                    Phase to Phase

Phase 1                    1.3 ohms @ 20degC          2.6 ohms @ 20 degC

Phases 2 to 4            6.1 ohms @ 20 degC         12.2 ohms @ 20 degC

Phases 5 and 6          16 ohms @ 20 degC          32 ohms @ 20 degC

Where did thta data come from ?

MK

Hi Michael,

The data I gave re resistance etc is from the service manual for the washing machine.  As mentioned, I can only provide the data on the internet as I am still on a steep learning curve, but I am learning a lot.

So from that article, can you, or others, suggest a controller that would suit?  I know that colecago suggested an option from the PML series.  My only reticence is the price.  As I am home-funded I am always on the lookout for the cheapest but still suitable option.  If you are aware of one this would be much appreciated.

Regards

Simon

Yeah, I'm kind of biased, I used to work at that company a few years ago and know the engineers there.  They are known for quality drives though.  The engineer that designed that does the AC and Brushless drives, as well as some of the higher power DC stuff.  He designed I think it was a 160V 1500A peak motor drive for an electric truck of his.

Hi

Nothing wrong with bias.  But in the instance that you weren't biased, and had a tight budget, is there another driver you would suggest?

Thanks

Simon

You can look to see what the competition has to offer, industrial drives aren't cheap that I've seen, and being at 230vac kind of puts you in that arena, if it was low voltage dc, you could use Chinese scooter controls.

Look at kb electronics and dart controls, they were our competitors.

One nice thing about the American Controls one is the voltage doubler, you can run a 230 drive on 120.

Ok Thanks.  Can you please advise on the specifics of what features I need to have with such a unit?  This is part of why I started to this discussion in the first place.  I don't really know what I am looking for, and I really don't want to buy the wrong item and have my dollars converted to smoke, quite literally, or to have a motor that doesn't turn.

I want to run it on 24V DC. 

It has Hall sensors.

Not so sure about Amps, or the regenerative load part of the control.  Or whether I should stick with my initial plan to switch it over to generator mode with relays and disconnect the drive completely.

All and any guidance in this regard would be appreciated.