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Member's Forum Improving a Reflectance Sensor design for high speed reading
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  • analog input
  • tachometer
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  • lm393
  • ir sensor
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  • darlington pair
Related

Improving a Reflectance Sensor design for high speed reading

luislabmo
luislabmo over 5 years ago

I've been prototyping with a Reflectance Sensor to be used in different applications with a micro-controller, mostly as a speed sensor and as an encoder. My goal is to try to use it as best as I can at high speeds which at the end of the day is just reading Reflectance -or Not- for pulses that last a very short amount of time. Below is the Schematic in question - this design is not originally mine but seems to be the go-to design for many hobbyist IR Sensors.

image

First I tried working with just the circuit enclosed inside the Reflective Object Sensor area which produces an analog signal, but at high speeds the signal doesn't rise fast enough, with that in mind, leaving out the Comparator (LM393) or any solution that helps mitigate this problem is probably out of the question.

 

  1. Low Speed test: to my surprise, I noticed that the LED helps in the design image. It helps the signal rise faster or makes it look more like a square wave -which is a good thing as I'm reading the output using an external interrupt. I noticed when the LED (D1) is replaced with any diode, the output looks even better (on the downside it adds a ringing to the base voltage). Could someone explain why a Diode seems to help here? and why, as I increase the value of R5, the Base voltage tends to be lower? -again another good thing for the design seems. In this test I tried different diodes 1N5227B Zenner Diode1N5227B Zenner Diode, 1N914 Signal Diode1N914 Signal Diode and 1N4007 all with the same results.
    image
  2. High Speed test: It seems that the current value of C3 is too high and affects the output when the sensor is reading reflectance at high-speeds (the pulses don't rise high or fast enough for the micro-controller to read High). In that case, what could be a better trade off? - adding the Diode and/or lowering C3 to lets say 0.01µF.
    image
  3. Keeping the LED: adding the Diode seems to be a good approach -or maybe there is a different way-. What could be the best way of keeping the LED also? -It's a great way to have a visual feedback when the sensor is doing it's job and also to help calibrating the sensor.

 

If you made it this far, thank you for reading. Please let me know what you think in the comments.

 

Luis

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  • dougw
    dougw over 5 years ago +4 suggested
    The rise time is governed by the time constant formed by C3 and the combination of R2 and R5. Because R5 is smaller than R2, when it is in the circuit (when the diode is in the circuit) the rise time will…
  • shabaz
    shabaz over 5 years ago +4 suggested
    Hi Luis! There's a few things to try: Firstly (very important) there needs to be a 100nF capacitor* directly across the supply rails of U1. You may already have done this (it's not on the circuit diagram…
  • neuromodulator
    neuromodulator over 5 years ago +4 suggested
    Improving the response of the comparator is important but so is improving the photo-transistor response. Don't forget about the miller effect, try reducing R to a max of R = VCC / 50ma. You will trade…
Parents
  • dougw
    0 dougw over 5 years ago

    The rise time is governed by the time constant formed by C3 and the combination of R2 and R5.

    Because R5 is smaller than R2, when it is in the circuit (when the diode is in the circuit) the rise time will be shorter.

    If you short out the LED the rise time will be even shorter.

    If the resistance is small - where the current through it is the max the output can sink, the rise time will be shortest.

    Open drain comparators will always suffer if there is capacitance on the output.

    If you remove the capacitor (C3) and the ringing is too severe, try clamping it with low capacitance diodes or zeners.

    Or you can use a push-pull comparator which will have faster rise times.

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  • luislabmo
    0 luislabmo over 5 years ago in reply to dougw

    Hi Doug!.

     

    Thanks for the suggestion on the push-pull comparator. Any spec (or characteristic) I should target for?

     

    Luis

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  • dougw
    0 dougw over 5 years ago in reply to luislabmo

    There are lots to choose from. If you want a DIP package for your breadboard, something like a TLC3702 has a rise time of 125 ns.

    Or maybe a TL712 if old school Schottky bipolar technology doesn't scare you (25 ns rise time).

    If you want faster, you could go to a LMV762 which has a rise time of 1.7 ns but it is surface mount.

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  • dougw
    0 dougw over 5 years ago in reply to luislabmo

    There are lots to choose from. If you want a DIP package for your breadboard, something like a TLC3702 has a rise time of 125 ns.

    Or maybe a TL712 if old school Schottky bipolar technology doesn't scare you (25 ns rise time).

    If you want faster, you could go to a LMV762 which has a rise time of 1.7 ns but it is surface mount.

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