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Forum Olimex A10S/A20-OLinuXino boards quite BBB-like
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  • olinuxino
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Olimex A10S/A20-OLinuXino boards quite BBB-like

morgaine
morgaine over 12 years ago

I've gathered together some pieces of information on Olimex's latest Cortex-A* board range, which I think is an interesting one.

 

Allwinner's new A20 device has almost the same pinout as their old A10, so Olimex developed an A20 board very quickly by upgrading an earlier A10-based prototype with the new SoC.  They already had a different OLinuXino board based on the lower-cost A10S in early production, so the future A20 board is being positioned as a more capable version of this product.

 

This pair of boards have the product names A10S-OLinuXino-MICRO and A20-OLinuXino-MICRO, and Olimex's price list shows that each of these will also be available with 4GB of NAND flash on board, respectively named as A10S-OLinuXino-MICRO-4GB and A20-OLinuXino-MICRO-4GB.    Summary of the range:

 

 

SoCCoresARM Core
RAMProduct ModelPriceFeatures
A10S1Cortex-A8512MBA10S-OLinuXino-MICRO45 euro
A10S1Cortex-A8512MBA10S-OLinuXino-MICRO-4GB55 euroFlash
A202Cortex-A71GBA20-OLinuXino-MICRO55 euroSATA
A202Cortex-A71GBA20-OLinuXino-MICRO-4GB65 euroFlash, SATA

 

 

Note that there is more symmetry in the  product naming  than in the actual board layouts, as A10S and A20 boards are quite different to reflect the differences in their SoCs.

 

The NAND-less A10S-OLinuXino-MICRO [summary pdf] is already listed at Farnell UK, delivery projected for end of July, and development work on the A20-OLinuXino-MICRO seems to be progressing well.

 

The A10S-OLinuXino-MICRO-4GB is pretty similar to the BeagleBone Black (BBB) in several ways.  The A10S has a Cortex-A8 CPU just like the BBB's TI AM3359, and both are clocked at the same speed of 1GHz.  Both provide native Ethernet, not over USB.  Both boards offer 512MB of RAM.  Likewise both feature on-board embedded flash as well as sockets for external cards, although the OLinuXino has double the flash and two different card sockets.  Both provide HDMI for video output (the A10S's GPU is a MALI-400), although the OLinuXino also provides analogue audio input and output sockets.  Both provide roughly the same kind of expansion connector concept, ie. a connector on each of the opposing long edges of the board.  As usual on Olimex boards, the OLinuXino also provides a UEXT connector which allows Olimex's large range of expansion modules to be attached.

 

The above isn't intended to portray the A10S-OLinuXino-MICRO-4GB as "better" despite it having several extra features.  The BBB is quite a lot cheaper and provides stackable capes and the AM335x's exceptional PRUs, so it'll always be "horses for courses" between the two.  I do think that the two boards are close enough in features to be considered ballpark-similar.

 

The A20-OLinuXino-MICRO and -4GB version will be quite a significant step up from their A10S-based siblings.  The CPU is a dual-core Cortex-A7 (see the A20 and Allwinner family brief pdf and short A20 datasheet for more details), RAM is doubled to 1GB of DDR3, video output is through both HDMI and VGA, and SATA data and power connectors are provided.  For 55 to 65 Euro, I expect that Olimex are going to have a serious hit on their hands.

 

And the entire OLinuXino range is both open hardware and open software, give or take Allwinner's somewhat lacklustre understanding of the concept of documentation.  TI is way ahead on quality of open documentation for the BBB, except for its GPU which remains closed.  Apparently the open source Lima driver for the OLinuXino's MALI-400 is better than the Allwinner binary blob anyway, so at least for graphics support it might not matter much. image

 

Interesting times ahead.  I'm certainly keeping an eye open on Olimex, they're a very competent and extremely productive outfit.  Progress on their OLinuXino boards and other newsworthy developments are typically announced on their blog.

 

Morgaine.

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  • fustini
    fustini over 12 years ago in reply to morgaine +2
    That's a good question about the A9. I wonder if there will be or is a Sitara SoC part with that for which a similar low-cost board could be made (BeagleBone Graphene - early 2014? ). I'll see Jason in…
  • morgaine
    morgaine over 12 years ago +1
    The A10S-OLinuXino-MICRO isn't in the exceptionally low Raspberry Pi and BBB price niche, but it may be worth pointing out that this board has Raspberry Pi-like graphics and media capability (unlike the…
  • morgaine
    morgaine over 12 years ago +1
    Olimex has blogged instructions on building Linux for A10S from scratch . Since the A10S has a Cortex-A8 CPU like the BBB, these instructions and the linux-sunxi Github repositories to which they refer…
Parents
  • morgaine
    morgaine over 12 years ago

    There's a comedian from the Pi community writing in answer to an Olimex blog post about BBB in which he accuses TI of "cheating".  Pretty funny considering all the price and development help that Pi has been receiving from Broadcom.

     

    I'll  never understand the mentality of fanbois.  It's just a board, for goodness sake.  How can a person be so attached to it that they feel hurt when something more advanced appears on the market?  It makes no rational sense at all.

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  • fustini
    fustini over 12 years ago in reply to morgaine

    aw, I like the pic of the dog image  I've got that EDN article in my queue to read.  I've come across others too who claimed that the BBB BOM is subsidized by TI.  I'm glad I found this FAQ which explains it: http://circuitco.com/support/index.php?title=BeagleBone_Black_FAQ#Why_is_the_BeagleBone_Black_only_.2445.3F 

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  • Former Member
    Former Member over 12 years ago in reply to fustini

    If anyone doubts that the RPi's development was subsidized, all they have to do

    is look at the RPF's total spending amounts, at:

    http://opencharities.org/charities/1129409

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  • Former Member
    Former Member over 12 years ago in reply to fustini

    If anyone doubts that the RPi's development was subsidized, all they have to do

    is look at the RPF's total spending amounts, at:

    http://opencharities.org/charities/1129409

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  • fustini
    fustini over 12 years ago in reply to Former Member

    I'm thinking Dec 2012 is gonna be a bit bigger image  I was impressed they hired an artist-in-residence and happpy to read Rob is going on another hackerspace tour.  Hopefully the Foundation now has the financial resources needed to fulfil their vision.  I'm going a bit more off-topic but I found this interview with Eben an interesting read: http://www.linux-magazine.com/Online/Features/Meet-Raspberry-Pi-s-Eben-Upton (Linux Pro magazine is based in Kansas and had a booth at Maker Faire KC where they were selling their Raspberry Pi special edition)

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  • Former Member
    Former Member over 12 years ago in reply to fustini
    It’s not entirely clear to me why the Beagleboard is so expensive. Somebody in that Beagleboard value chain has got to be making a pile of money – I mean, $175 for a Pandaboard or $100 for a Beagleboard? Somebody’s got to be amassing a pile of cash there, because that’s a $10 chip in that device. I don’t know why they’re so expensive.

    http://www.linuxuser.co.uk/features/raspberry-pi-interview-eban-upton-reveals-all

     

    I'd also be interested to see how much the price of the Beagle goes up after launch....difficult to see how they can make it at that price, esp. since TI are a business and not a charity, but then I suppose they can use this as a loss leader (nice business, loss leading, when your competitor is a charity). Of course, that won't bother most people who just want a faster device for the minimal amount of cash.  --JamesH

    http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=41489&start=82

     

     

    even at that rate and using the last numbers that the raspberry pi foundation mentioned around the beginning of june ...

    -- David Ross

    http://olimex.wordpress.com/2013/07/12/does-the-dog-eat-the-pie/#comment-6991

     

    liz on May 30, 2013 at 1:03 am said:

     

    It’s more like 1.5m now  

    http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/4103

     

    Eben in July 09, 2013 interview (p. 9) said:

    We have sold around 1.3 million units over 15 months

    http://issuu.com/eeweb/docs/volume_106_-_eben_upton/5?e=7607911/3960319

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  • morgaine
    morgaine over 12 years ago in reply to fustini

    Drew, do you know whether TI has a SoC range based on Cortex-A9 or better, targeted at the low-cost market?  It'll be important to their fortunes before long, and time flies fast in this area.

     

    Beaglboard.org and CircuitCo are going to be facing the same situation as Pi is currently facing once more advanced boards appear within the same price niche.  Only the PRUs seem likely to remain as TI's totally unrivalled feature, although you never know what some competitor might bring out.  Greater CPU performance, higher core counts, more RAM, gigabit Ethernet, SATA, digital audio, etc etc are all features which other companies will undoubtedly offer.  And once SoCs have lots of cores, it's a no-brainer to use core affinity to provide stronger realtime operation for apps and for specific drivers, so even the PRU advantage is at risk.

     

    I like this continual improvement in features and capabilities and rapid turnover at the leading edge.  May the best manufacturer win, until the next company does better.  And although for now the sun has finally come out in the UK for summer, we'll be needing more boards to play with once the normal rains return.

    image

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  • morgaine
    morgaine over 12 years ago in reply to Former Member

    coder27 wrote:

     

    I'd also be interested to see how much the price of the Beagle goes up after launch....difficult to see how they can make it at that price, esp. since TI are a business and not a charity  --JamesH

     

    Well that's just JamesH for you.  You'd think that while constructing his sentence he would have been aware that the Pi's SoC manufacturer is Broadcom, and Broadcom is not a charity either.  This makes his comment about TI completely illogical, since TI is the counterpart to Broadcom for the respective board SoCs.

     

    And on the matter of price, I've been buying my BBBs from CPC for £27.87.  This seems a tiny bit more than Pi Model B's price of £26.88, but only until you factor in that the Pi won't run without an additional SD card whereas BBB has eMMC built in.  Indeed, the BBB is actually cheaper, since an SD card will typically set a Pi owner back more than the £0.99 difference, and the BBB comes with a micro-USB lead too.

     

    So, I wonder if JamesH is still "interested to see how much the price of the Beagle goes up after launch". image

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  • fustini
    fustini over 12 years ago in reply to morgaine

    That's a good question about the A9.  I wonder if there will be or is a Sitara SoC part with that for which a similar low-cost board could be made (BeagleBone Graphene - early 2014? image).  I'll see Jason in a couple weeks at Maker Faire Detroit so I'll ask him.

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  • morgaine
    morgaine over 12 years ago in reply to fustini

    Drew Fustini wrote:

     

    > [Referring to subject of "Cortex-A9 or better, targeted at the low-cost market?"]

     

    I'll see Jason in a couple weeks at Maker Faire Detroit so I'll ask him.

     

    That would be awesome!

     

    Please impress on Jason that while BBB is streets ahead of the current Pi in its specific niche (ie. *NOT* media centres), a new Pi based on a more modern Broadcom SoC is quite likely to have 1) at least a Cortex-A9 MPcore (dual), 2) not have a broken USB controller, and 3) retain its lead in media capability.

     

    This would probably leave BBB behind in the dust, so if Beagleboard.org wants to retain the lead in its appeal to techies (*NOT* media consumers), then it probably needs to do one or more of the following things:

     

    • Use ARM cores at least as modern as the (unknown) next-gen Pi (this prolly means at least Cortex-A9).
    • Offer more ARM cores than the hypothetical next-gen Pi.
    • Be cheaper than next-gen Pi.
    • Provide more network interfaces --- that probably means two NICs instead of one, to appeal to the WRT community.
    • Provide faster networking --- that means native gigabit Ethernet NIC(s), one or two of them.
    • Retain its PRUs which are a unique product-differentiating feature, or preferably expand them further.

     

    I'm quite sure that others could add many more suggestions to this list!

     

    This more or less summarizes as "Plan for the future now, or you won't survive to see it."  image

     

    Morgaine.

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  • Former Member
    Former Member over 12 years ago in reply to morgaine

    a more modern Broadcom SoC is quite likely to have 1) at least a Cortex-A9 MPcore (dual), 2) not have a broken USB controller,

     

    JamesH says:

    Any nr future BRCM chip is unlikely to change the USB HW - too expensive/too short a timescale

    http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=31844&start=195

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  • morgaine
    morgaine over 12 years ago in reply to Former Member

    If Broadcom or RPF have managed to find a way to get the Linux kernel to respond to USB split transactions before the 1ms USB timeout, then this is the first I've heard of it.  It's certainly possible that I missed the news since I don't follow their blog nor forum, but I'm sure my main source of RPF information would have noticed it.

     

    Oh wait, that's you! image

     

    It wouldn't surprise me if JamesH's "the USB issues are pretty much sorted" simply means "We've managed to convince the Pi masses that the issues aren't important".  If reality is better than that, I look forward to hearing about it!  I'm very happy to see technical progress from any quarter, no exceptions.

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  • Former Member
    Former Member over 12 years ago in reply to morgaine

    If and when they get the USB issues sorted, I'm sure there will be a big announcement.

    They have apparently been making some progress, but are still working on it. 

    As far as I know, most of their recent improvements haven't yet been rolled into

    an official release, but may be available as updates for users to test.

    Some USB issues are reportedly unsolveable with the current hardware.

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  • morgaine
    morgaine over 12 years ago in reply to Former Member

    That reminds me of a pointless discussion I was having with a Pi fanboi on the Olimex blog (until I unilaterally terminated it as pointless) in which the person was discounting the value of Broadcom support to RPF versus TI support for BBB.

     

    Totally hilarious, given that Broadcom's work on Pi's USB problems has awesome monetary value for Broadcom in allowing their cut-price USB hardware to not be a total laughing stock.

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