CadSoft forums now available on element14

Matt Collinge wrote on Wed, 23 June 2010 13:46

Christy Zurcher - element14 Manager

Will you guys please stop doing this!?

Are logins really in such short supply at Farnell that each of you can't

have one, or are you too lazy to log in properly and "Matt Collinge" is

some sort of catch all acount?

This may work for you folks, but it's rather annoying for the rest of the

world.

--

Web access to CadSoft support forums at www.eaglecentral.ca.  Where the CadSoft EAGLE community meets.

Hi Olin,

I'm not sure to what you are referring. I don't see any of my posts as coming through from Matt. When I look at the newsgroups using Outlook Express I see everything as "Christy Zurcher wrote:"...etc.

We are not using a shared login - our gateway should be passing through our names using our IDs from element14, just as it does in reverse, passing through your details to element14 when you post to the forums.

Is there a particular post where you are seeing this so I can investigate?

As mentioned, I use Outlook Express to view the newsgroups and  messages posted out from element14 appear to have a proper line-length when I view them there.

We want to make sure this works well for you guys who use the forums, so anything I can do to make the experience better/investigate/fix on our end I will surely try to do.

Thanks,

Christy

Christy Zurcher schrieb:

I'm not sure to what you are referring. I don't see any of my posts

as coming through from Matt. When I look at the newsgroups using

Outlook Express I see everything as "Christy Zurcher wrote:"...etc.

Don't worry - Olin is posting through yet another newsgroup-to-web

interface which has a few flaws. One of those is the (wrong)

interpretation of mail adresses and assigning them to more or less

correct "user names" - and then displaying only these names without the

mail address, ignoring the provided user name of the sender.

There's nothing you can do about this from your side. This needs to be

fixed at the other side. Your posts are perfectly fine (besides the line

length... ).

Is there a particular post where you are seeing this so I can

investigate?

<http://www.eaglecentral.ca/forums/index.php?t=msg&th=38123&start=0&S=5ccfa201173f2824731980c511a9ef15>

That's how it appears there - but remember, that's a fault of their

interface software, not yours.

As mentioned, I use Outlook Express to view the newsgroups and

messages posted out from element14 appear to have a proper

line-length when I view them there.

Maybe your OE automatically wraps the lines when viewing, or your window

width is rather small so the lines appear shorter than they are. In

fact, all your paragraphs are posted as a single line.

We want to make sure this works well for you guys who use the forums,

so anything I can do to make the experience better/investigate/fix on

our end I will surely try to do.

Thanks for all of your support, especially concerning the continuity of

the newsgroups. (But, however, don't confuse them with "forums"... )

Tilmann

Am 08.07.2010 20:23, schrieb Olin Lathrop:

Joern Paschedag wrote on Thu, 08 July 2010 13:28

>> Quote:

>> > We all know you prefer NNTP feeds, which is your business. We don't

>> > really need to hear about it constantly, and we especially can do

>> > without your belitteling anyone who doesn't do things your chosen way.

>>

>>

>> Who is WE??? Olin Lathrop you are not speaking in MY name!

>

OK, so apparently you do want to hear Tilmann constantly tell us how NNTP

is much better and belittle those who disagree. However, I think that is

not a good thing for the forums.

>

No Olin, I just want you to keep your mouth SHUT.

Quote:

>> And YOU are not telling ME what I have to use and by far not that

>> everything else is bullsh..

>

I think you're getting confused about who said what to whom. I was the one

advocating letting everyone use their favorite tool, and even suggested a

underlying mechanism that would make the experience better for all,

including NNTP users.

You can think what you want. The only mind that is getting confused is

yours. You must allways  be right and have the last word. Poor soul.

--

Gruß / regards

Joern

Olin Lathrop schrieb:

I wasn't the one calling people "silly" for having a different opinion and

preferring different tools.

Indeed, "silly" was not the wording you used:

-

From: Olin Lathrop <eagle@embedinc.com>

Newsgroups: eagle.userchat.eng

Subject: Re: Eagle and electronics peer to peer forums

Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 13:41:53 -0500

Wow, I'm really amazed how many stodgy old dinosaurs there are here.  Or

maybe they are few but vocal.  Do you guys still cling to horse drawn

carriages, cooking over open coal fires, and outhouses too?

-

You seem to go out of your way to try to paint

anyone not using NNTP as stupid and any other means as "less efficient",

and take any opportunity to ding the forums that you can.

Obviously you had a very basic misunderstanding: I don't call everyone

stupid who doesn't use direct newsgroup access. It's your choice to use

another interface (and everyone elses, too). I just (repeatedly) wrote

that those web interfaces are far too inefficient for me - exactly as

you are constantly writing that you prefer the web forum and NNTP

support should be completely dropped in your opinion.

However, please note that those gateways have their bugs, and many of

the forum users might not be aware of them and the problems they cause.

Also, newcomers to the forums might not be aware of the direct access to

the newsgroups by NNTP. So I will of course continue to note that.

Now please don't bark at me again for mentioning the "direct" access by

NNTP. It simply is a fact that a) the newsgroups are much older, b) they

are the official access point directly at CadSoft, and c) the web forums

are only just gateways to them.

It's always the same old arguments for and against each way of doing

things.  In the end they come down to individual preference, largely based

on what people are used to.

Correctly. (This sounds different from what you wrote earlier.)

I think Oliver is right in suggesting a working web access to the

newsgroups instead of providing just (more or less buggy) gateways.

Tilmann

Olin Lathrop wrote:

>I think you're getting confused about who said what to whom.  I was the one

>advocating letting everyone use their favorite tool, and even suggested a

>underlying mechanism that would make the experience better for all,

>including NNTP users.

Your assumption that "forums should be the main interface

italics, bold flowed text" ... "causes more conversion troubles"

is IMNSHO simply wrong. Although /Italics/, bold and underlined

could be mapped in most cases, flowed text definitely creates many

problems, e.g. with "ASCII art" but there are more scenarios.

Your suggestion would definitely cause problems for the NNTP users.

Web access to the groups is the barrier-free solution for all, since

it uses the least common denominator and obviously creates less

hassle.

We all can see the disappointing results from the last two attempts to

create a gateway between "forum" and NNTP.

I don't know the motivation of Eaglecentral, but it's clear why

element14 wants to integrate the Eagle groups. Sadly their forum

software is "not the most advanced" (an euphemism, of course) I have

seen till now and IMO not a suitable starting point.

Instead of investing a lot of work in dead-end solutions, I suggest to

look for a good online access to the NNTP groups. Farnell, please

invest some time and/or money to create/buy/whatever a good solution.

There are browser based NNTP access solutions out there which might be

a starting point (I didn't test them).

Oliver

Joern Paschedag wrote on Thu, 08 July 2010 13:28

Quote:

We all know you prefer NNTP feeds, which is your business. We don't

really need to hear about it constantly, and we especially can do

without your belitteling anyone who doesn't do things your chosen way.

 

Who is WE??? Olin Lathrop you are not speaking in MY name!

OK, so apparently you do want to hear Tilmann constantly tell us how NNTP

is much better and belittle those who disagree.  However, I think that is

not a good thing for the forums.

Quote:

And YOU are not telling ME what I have to use and by far not that

everything else is bullsh..

I think you're getting confused about who said what to whom.  I was the one

advocating letting everyone use their favorite tool, and even suggested a

underlying mechanism that would make the experience better for all,

including NNTP users.

--

Web access to CadSoft support forums at www.eaglecentral.ca.  Where the CadSoft EAGLE community meets.

Am 08.07.2010 16:32, schrieb Olin Lathrop:

Tilmann Reh wrote on Thu, 08 July 2010 02:33

>> > Everyone that doesn't see the One True Way is a heathen infidel.

>>

>> I couldn't have described your position more precisely.

>

I wasn't the one calling people "silly" for having a different opinion and

preferring different tools. You seem to go out of your way to try to paint

anyone not using NNTP as stupid and any other means as "less efficient",

and take any opportunity to ding the forums that you can.

>

It's always the same old arguments for and against each way of doing

things. In the end they come down to individual preference, largely based

on what people are used to. We all know you prefer NNTP feeds, which is

your business. We don't really need to hear about it constantly, and we

especially can do without your belitteling anyone who doesn't do things

your chosen way.

>

Who is WE??? Olin Lathrop you are not speaking in MY name!

This thread is about element14 and a connection to cadsoft that is all.

This is not a discussion about forums or newsgroups!

And YOU are not telling ME what I have to use and by far not that

everything else is bullsh.. if it is not done your way.

You may do what you want but leave others alone.

--

Gruß / regards

Joern

Tilmann Reh wrote on Thu, 08 July 2010 02:33

Everyone that doesn't see the One True Way is a heathen infidel.

 

I couldn't have described your position more precisely.

I wasn't the one calling people "silly" for having a different opinion and

preferring different tools.  You seem to go out of your way to try to paint

anyone not using NNTP as stupid and any other means as "less efficient",

and take any opportunity to ding the forums that you can.

It's always the same old arguments for and against each way of doing

things.  In the end they come down to individual preference, largely based

on what people are used to.  We all know you prefer NNTP feeds, which is

your business.  We don't really need to hear about it constantly, and we

especially can do without your belitteling anyone who doesn't do things

your chosen way.

--

Web access to CadSoft support forums at www.eaglecentral.ca.  Where the CadSoft EAGLE community meets.

Am 08.07.2010 08:33, schrieb Tilmann Reh:

Olin Lathrop schrieb:

>

>>> Silly that you still don't see ...

>> Ah, it's a religious issue.

>

It's really amazing how you manage to distortingly quote and ignore all

facts and arguments - even those you mentioned by yourself before.

>

Luckily, Oliver's complete post is still available for reading.

>

>> Everyone that doesn't see the One True Way is a heathen infidel.

>

I couldn't have described your position more precisely.

>

>>   Trying to have a civil discussion is therefore both

>> impossible and pointless.

>

That's obviously true. Unfortunately.

>

Tilmann

Full Ack! (Yes Olin)

Against stupidity even the gods contend in vain (Schiller)

--

Gruß / regards

Joern

Olin Lathrop schrieb:

>> Silly that you still don't see ...

Ah, it's a religious issue.

It's really amazing how you manage to distortingly quote and ignore all

facts and arguments - even those you mentioned by yourself before.

Luckily, Oliver's complete post is still available for reading.

Everyone that doesn't see the One True Way is a heathen infidel.

I couldn't have described your position more precisely.

Trying to have a civil discussion is therefore both

impossible and pointless.

That's obviously true. Unfortunately.

Tilmann

Alexander Horst wrote on Wed, 07 July 2010 18:10

Oliver's point was that NNTP does allow you to use your favourite

standardized "forum editor", just as you wished.

Not really, but I wasn't going argue with a religious zealot.  There are

many things that forums can do that NNTP can't support, therefore can't be

viewed with any NNTP client, and can't of course be sent either.  It would

be nice if all forums had the same interface, as long as it's the right

one.  By "right", I don't mean something with so many features stripped off

as to be NNTP compatible.

--

Web access to CadSoft support forums at www.eaglecentral.ca.  Where the CadSoft EAGLE community meets.

Olin Lathrop wrote:

Oliver Betz wrote on Mon, 05 July 2010 06:13

>> Silly that you still don't see ...

>

Ah, it's a religious issue. Everyone that doesn't see the One True Way is

a heathen infidel. Trying to have a civil discussion is therefore both

impossible and pointless.

Quoting only parts of sentences won't help for a good discussion either.

Oliver's point was that NNTP does allow you to use your favourite

standardized "forum editor", just as you wished.

As others said before: Trying to read and contribute to several different

web-based forums is very time consuming. Having all the interesting stuff

centralized in my email/NNTP/RSS-reader saves me a lot of time and is very

convenient to use, as I only have to learn one interface, which I can

even choose according to my needs.

Olin Lathrop wrote:

Oliver Betz wrote on Mon, 05 July 2010 06:13

>> Silly that you still don't see ...

>

Ah, it's a religious issue. Everyone that doesn't see the One True Way is

a heathen infidel. Trying to have a civil discussion is therefore both

impossible and pointless.

Quoting only parts of sentences won't help for a good discussion either.

Oliver's point was that NNTP does allow you to use your favourite

standardized "forum editor", just as you wished.

As others said before: Trying to read and contribute to several different

web-based forums is very time consuming. Having all the interesting stuff

centralized in my email/NNTP/RSS-reader saves me a lot of time and is very

convenient to use, as I only have to learn one interface, which I can

even choose according to my needs.

Alexander Horst wrote on Wed, 07 July 2010 18:10

Oliver's point was that NNTP does allow you to use your favourite

standardized "forum editor", just as you wished.

Not really, but I wasn't going argue with a religious zealot.  There are

many things that forums can do that NNTP can't support, therefore can't be

viewed with any NNTP client, and can't of course be sent either.  It would

be nice if all forums had the same interface, as long as it's the right

one.  By "right", I don't mean something with so many features stripped off

as to be NNTP compatible.

--

Web access to CadSoft support forums at www.eaglecentral.ca.  Where the CadSoft EAGLE community meets.