Element14 further breaks the newsgroup

warrenbrayshaw wrote on Fri, 16 July 2010 17:35

From the newsgroup, if you attempt to reply directly to the poster of a

message you receive an email from Element14

...

This is amazingly bad.

It makes sense to me.  Element14 is protecting its users from receiving

unsolicited mail.  Did this poster give you permission to send private

messages to him?  If not, you have no right to assume he wants to hear from

you or that your email will get thru.

Most forums have a "private message" feature to allow private

communication.  This usually gives a member good control over who they are

willing to accept messages from or not.

--

Web access to CadSoft support forums at www.eaglecentral.ca.  Where the CadSoft EAGLE community meets.

warrenbrayshaw wrote

From the newsgroup, if you attempt to reply directly to the poster of a

message you receive an email from Element14

...

This is amazingly bad.

>

"Olin Lathrop" <eagle@embedinc.com> wrote

It makes sense to me.  Element14 is protecting its users from receiving

unsolicited mail.  Did this poster give you permission to send private

messages to him?  If not, you have no right to assume he wants to hear

from

you or that your email will get thru.

>

Most forums have a "private message" feature to allow private

communication.  This usually gives a member good control over who they are

willing to accept messages from or not.

Olin

You are not wrong. That is the way most web forums work. But I interface

using the official Cadsoft support avenue, the NNTP. Tell me if I am wrong

in my assumption that it is not a choice with the Cadsoft NNTP. i.e if you

subscribe then you cannot prevent someone sending you mail directly. It's a

avenue I use to assist posters when further posting is counter productive.

With Element14 this is not a choice when you sign-up. They play gatekeeper

on all personal messages and you will need to sign-up to Element14 to

contact people coming through there. Within there you can browse everybody

and contact them through the moderation. It lolks like the contact can then

buddy with you for more direct interaction..

With EagleCentral you can optionaly permit direct contact, nice.

Someone recently expressed concern that the Eagle community would split. In

general that won't happen . I do feel  this group will not be as good as it

could be because of what is being permitted to happen with the web forum

interfacing.

I see your chosen interface, EagleCentral, as only impacting the NNTP in two

areas which when fixed will make EagleCentral transparent.

1) Mime encoding

2) Poster attributing

Element14 on the other hand has more to do. e.g. You may  have noticed that

they are not correctly stripping out emoticon strings and the NNTP messages

are littered with this graffitti text.

One thing I do like at Element14 is when a NNTP post finishes with a text

happy face  (colon, right parenthisis) they display an icon happy face at

Element14. Now if only they could convert their emoticon string to a text (2

character) equivalent when feeding the NNTP.

Warren

Warren Brayshaw wrote:

warrenbrayshaw wrote

>>> From the newsgroup, if you attempt to reply directly to the poster of a

>>> message you receive an email from Element14

>>> ...

>>> This is amazingly bad.

 

"Olin Lathrop" <eagle@embedinc.com> wrote

>> It makes sense to me.  Element14 is protecting its users from receiving

>> unsolicited mail.  Did this poster give you permission to send private

>> messages to him?  If not, you have no right to assume he wants to hear

from

>> you or that your email will get thru.

>>

>> Most forums have a "private message" feature to allow private

>> communication.  This usually gives a member good control over who they are

>> willing to accept messages from or not.

 

Olin

You are not wrong. That is the way most web forums work. But I interface

using the official Cadsoft support avenue, the NNTP. Tell me if I am wrong

in my assumption that it is not a choice with the Cadsoft NNTP. i.e if you

subscribe then you cannot prevent someone sending you mail directly. It's a

avenue I use to assist posters when further posting is counter productive.

 

Warren, you are correct. NNTP is by far the best method of rapid

communications. Everyone who signs up has a free choice of giving his

personal contact info or not. For example, I usually have a not valid

email address in newsgroups, to avoid spambots. But the reply-to address

is fully valid, it is a separate email box but forwards right here onto

the computer. Your post reminded me to set that correctly like in otehr

newsgroups, I just realized that my settings hadn't propagated because

Cadsoft runs their own news server and is thus a separate account on my PC.

This is why I do not understand why a fancy new forum format was needed.

But Cadsoft was purchased and I guess now lots of decisions are made far

away. I sincereley hope they won't give up NNTP because that would

destry one of the key advantages of Eagle, something that to my

knowledge no other CAD vendor has.

--

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.

Use another domain or send PM.

warrenbrayshaw wrote on Sat, 17 July 2010 20:54

You are not wrong. That is the way most web forums work. But I

interface using the official Cadsoft support avenue, the NNTP.

That's you're choice, but NNTP can't support all the features a forum can.

With NNTP, the best you can do is use a bogus FROM address sometimes, which

this server apparently allows.

Quote:

It's a avenue I use to assist posters when further posting is counter

productive.

That may be, but it's not your call to make.  The recipient should be able

to decide whether they want to hear from you, and forums let them do this.

This is good thing.

--

Web access to CadSoft support forums at www.eaglecentral.ca.  Where the CadSoft EAGLE community meets.

Joerg wrote on Sun, 18 July 2010 09:36

Warren, you are correct. NNTP is by far the best method of rapid

communications.

Actually Warren didn't say that, and it's your personal opinion anyway.  We

have been over this debate plenty already, and others can site significant

advantages of forums over NNTP.  Let's not rehash all that again.

While you're welcome to your personal opinion, please don't try to start

flame wars by pretending its a agreed upon fact.

--

Web access to CadSoft support forums at www.eaglecentral.ca.  Where the CadSoft EAGLE community meets.

Olin Lathrop wrote:

warrenbrayshaw wrote on Sat, 17 July 2010 20:54

>> You are not wrong. That is the way most web forums work. But I

>> interface using the official Cadsoft support avenue, the NNTP.

 

That's you're choice, but NNTP can't support all the features a forum

can. ...

And web forums can't do a lot of things NNTP can. Mostly related to

speed and threading.

    ... With NNTP, the best you can do is use a bogus FROM address

sometimes, which

this server apparently allows.

 

Quote:

>> It's a avenue I use to assist posters when further posting is counter

>> productive.

 

That may be, but it's not your call to make.  The recipient should be able

to decide whether they want to hear from you, and forums let them do

this. This is good thing.

Well, you just described in this post how that's done with NNTP. Piece

of cake, really

--

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.

Use another domain or send PM.

Joerg wrote on Sun, 18 July 2010 10:34

And web forums can't do a lot of things NNTP can. Mostly related to

speed and threading.

Not true.  But again, the various pros and cons have been hashed out plenty

already.  Statements like that when you know very well there are opinions

and arguments on the other side serve no purpose than to start another

pointless food fight.

--

Web access to CadSoft support forums at www.eaglecentral.ca.  Where the CadSoft EAGLE community meets.

Am 18.07.2010 15:36, schrieb Joerg:

Warren Brayshaw wrote:

snip

This is why I do not understand why a fancy new forum format was needed.

But Cadsoft was purchased and I guess now lots of decisions are made far

away. I sincereley hope they won't give up NNTP because that would

destry one of the key advantages of Eagle, something that to my

knowledge no other CAD vendor has.

>

>

I couldn't have said it better

--

Gruß / regards

Joern

Olin Lathrop wrote:

>> And web forums can't do a lot of things NNTP can. Mostly related to

>> speed and threading.

>

>Not true.

it is true. Especially threading is an important feature missing in

most forum software. And the speed issue is also immense.

But again, the various pros and cons have been hashed out plenty

>already.  Statements like that when you know very well there are opinions

>and arguments on the other side serve no purpose than to start another

>pointless food fight.

it's not pointless. Accept that there are people knowing the

important benefits of NNTP. I don't want to read weakly founded "pro

forum" postings uncommented because I don't want to be forced to use a

forum some day.

Therefore the "pro forum" people must not keep quiet (although most of

them appear rarely). I suggest you count them, you might be surprised.

And why do you ignore that Joerg disproved one more "pro forum" you

mentioned, the decision whether to offer a off-group contact or not?

As far as I see, the only remaining "benefit" of a forum is fancy

formatting (what does this improve?) and the possibility to store

large files (which is also possible in the CadSoft file area but

rarely necessary).

Oliver

Oliver Betz wrote on Mon, 19 July 2010 02:35

it is true.

Grow up.  There are arguments on both sides that have already been hashed

out aplenty.  Let's not get into this again.

--

Web access to CadSoft support forums at www.eaglecentral.ca.  Where the CadSoft EAGLE community meets.