Element14 - Attachment got through to newsg roup

Warren Brayshaw wrote:

FYI

I see an attachment to a post done at Element14 got through to the

newsgroup. (eagle.support.eng -  Where is the Package Editing mode

button in the gui?)

 

Let's see if this image gets back to Element14

 

The attachment was not included when Element14 retrieved the post.

Additionally the XML image attached today at the News Group did not appear

at Element14.

Warren

Apologies - I'm curious to see if an image posted via element14 appears in nntp and eaglecentral.

Thanks,

Drew

On 09/22/2011 06:24 PM, fustini wrote:

Apologies - I'm curious to see if an image posted via element14 appears in nntp and eaglecentral.

  Image:pdp7com_normal.jpg

Thanks,

Drew

 

No dice - let's try from NNTP to element14 instead.

Thanks,

Drew

fustini wrote:

Apologies - I'm curious to see if an image posted via element14

appears in nntp and eaglecentral. Image:pdp7com_normal.jpg

Thanks,

Drew

Your imbedded image did not get through but it did include the file name.

As it conveys no useful information to the reader shall we deem such text

strings as spam as has been done with the emoticon text strings?

The image that got through the other day was an attachment. Try that to see

if it gets through.

Warren

--

Viewed / responded via the newsgroup at

news.cadsoft.de

Ah, so I noticed that in posted where attached image made it to NNTP safely, it was an actual "attachment" in element14, not just an inline image.  In order to make an attachment, the "Use advanced editor" link in the upper righthand corner of the reply editor must be clicked.  This opens up a full-page editor which has a "Choose File" button underneath to make an attachment.

Attaching test image via this method now.

Thanks,

Drew

Attachments:

On 09/22/2011 06:41 PM, Warren Brayshaw wrote:

Your imbedded image did not get through but it did include the file name.

As it conveys no useful information to the reader shall we deem such text

strings as spam as has been done with the emoticon text strings?

Yeah, I can understand that.  I'm a die-hard shell email user and often

get frustrated by poorly constructed HTML messages.  I'm trying to get

back in the grove with slrn now that I know there's a cadsoft nntp

server (using thunderbird too for now).

The image that got through the other day was an attachment. Try that to see

if it gets through.

 

Warren

 

Thanks, yeah I just realized that it was an actual attachment on the

element14 side, not just an inline image, used in "Where is the Package

Editing mode...".  I've done another element14 post using a real attachment.

Cheers,

Drew

On 09/22/2011 06:50 PM, fustini wrote:

Ah, so I noticed that in posted where attached image made it to NNTP safely, it was an actual "attachment" in element14, not just an inline image.  In order to make an attachment, the "Use advanced editor" link in the upper righthand corner of the reply editor must be clicked.  This opens up a full-page editor which has a "Choose File" button underneath to make an attachment.

 

Attaching test image via this method now.

 

Thanks,

Drew

Alrighty, so a small 3 KB image got though ok from element14 to NNTP

when included as an actual attachment in the element14 "advanced mode"

WYSIWYG editor.

Now, if that does work consistently, then I think it would be ok for

savvy element14 users.  But, afiak, there is nothing to inform the

element14 user that inline images will be lost in translation.  Looks

like a technical solution will be needed in the element14 to NNTP export

functionality.  As I read in an earlier suggestion, including a URL to

the image hosted on element14 (that required no authentication) would be

a solution.

Cheers,

Drew

No reception of the image attachment from NNTP on this element14 thread.  I'm curious to see if I can find any successfull NNTP->element14 attachements.  element14->NNTP looks to be in better shape (aside from the requirement to explicity attach the image as a file).

Drew

On 23/09/2011 01:10, Drew Fustini wrote:

Alrighty, so a small 3 KB image got though ok from element14 to NNTP

when included as an actual attachment in the element14 "advanced mode"

WYSIWYG editor.

 

Now, if that does work consistently, then I think it would be ok for

savvy element14 users.

I wonder if we could get the reply to always go to the advanced editor

for certain forums?  We could also include an informational text to

inform users to 'attach' images until a more technical solution can be

found.

Or on the inline reply have a message 'please use the advanced editior

to attach files and images. Make sure to use the attach file facility to

ensure images are transferred to the newsgroup'

Martin

martinuser wrote:

On 23/09/2011 01:10, Drew Fustini wrote:

 

>> Alrighty, so a small 3 KB image got though ok from element14 to NNTP

>> when included as an actual attachment in the element14 "advanced

>> mode" WYSIWYG editor.

>>

>> Now, if that does work consistently, then I think it would be ok for

>> savvy element14 users.

 

I wonder if we could get the reply to always go to the advanced editor

for certain forums?  We could also include an informational text to

inform users to 'attach' images until a more technical solution can be

found.

 

Or on the inline reply have a message 'please use the advanced editior

to attach files and images. Make sure to use the attach file facility

to ensure images are transferred to the newsgroup'

 

Martin

If you go for a simple solution, such a workaround will haunt you. In fact

if only some of the attachments and messages get through, you have solved

nothing, just changed the problem.

You have another consideration as you ponder a solution.

When the total message size exceeds 50k (message/attachment/wrapper) it will

not be accepted by NNTP. A NNTP user quickly sees the message is missing and

learns/corrects  this very quickly.

For Element14 users, they see no issue and can see their posting but wonder

why they are not getting the response from the community they expected and

are disappointed with it....bad press

Consider this scenareo:

A thread is progressing and an E14 user posts a folllowup  message with an

attachment that causes the post not to be accepted by NNTP.

Not getting the answers expected, a third message in posted and refers to an

attachment

NNTP users attempt to find the attachment on the previous messages by this

user and cannot find any.

At this point it is deamed E14 still has attachment issues.....more time

wasted or time spent ignoring E14 postings by  NNTP users.

What needs to happen at E14 as the message is submitted

1) The message size is determined and it is announced that the message will

not be accepted by NNTP due to total size. You need to explain why reaching

NNTP is important to the user and suggest reducing the attachment size to

solve the issue. That will be attachments around 45kB. Some testing will

need to be done.

My interest is to cleanup the corruption Element14 has induced into the

NNTP. Good progress so far with emoticons. Your focus as you do this is to

give the E14 users the best experience you can. So roll up your sleeves and

create a full  solution to the attachment problem..

HTH

Warren

--

Viewed / responded via the newsgroup at

news.cadsoft.de

martinuser wrote:

On 23/09/2011 01:10, Drew Fustini wrote:

 

>> Alrighty, so a small 3 KB image got though ok from element14 to NNTP

>> when included as an actual attachment in the element14 "advanced

>> mode" WYSIWYG editor.

>>

>> Now, if that does work consistently, then I think it would be ok for

>> savvy element14 users.

 

I wonder if we could get the reply to always go to the advanced editor

for certain forums?  We could also include an informational text to

inform users to 'attach' images until a more technical solution can be

found.

 

Or on the inline reply have a message 'please use the advanced editior

to attach files and images. Make sure to use the attach file facility

to ensure images are transferred to the newsgroup'

 

Martin

If you go for a simple solution, such a workaround will haunt you. In fact

if only some of the attachments and messages get through, you have solved

nothing, just changed the problem.

You have another consideration as you ponder a solution.

When the total message size exceeds 50k (message/attachment/wrapper) it will

not be accepted by NNTP. A NNTP user quickly sees the message is missing and

learns/corrects  this very quickly.

For Element14 users, they see no issue and can see their posting but wonder

why they are not getting the response from the community they expected and

are disappointed with it....bad press

Consider this scenareo:

A thread is progressing and an E14 user posts a folllowup  message with an

attachment that causes the post not to be accepted by NNTP.

Not getting the answers expected, a third message in posted and refers to an

attachment

NNTP users attempt to find the attachment on the previous messages by this

user and cannot find any.

At this point it is deamed E14 still has attachment issues.....more time

wasted or time spent ignoring E14 postings by  NNTP users.

What needs to happen at E14 as the message is submitted

1) The message size is determined and it is announced that the message will

not be accepted by NNTP due to total size. You need to explain why reaching

NNTP is important to the user and suggest reducing the attachment size to

solve the issue. That will be attachments around 45kB. Some testing will

need to be done.

My interest is to cleanup the corruption Element14 has induced into the

NNTP. Good progress so far with emoticons. Your focus as you do this is to

give the E14 users the best experience you can. So roll up your sleeves and

create a full  solution to the attachment problem..

HTH

Warren

--

Viewed / responded via the newsgroup at

news.cadsoft.de

warrenbrayshaw wrote on Mon, 26 September 2011 16:18

When the total message size exceeds 50k (message/attachment/wrapper) it

will

not be accepted by NNTP.

This is another good reason why the forum should never send NNTP messages

with attachments.  The file already has a known fixed URL on the E14

servers, so the NNTP message should go out only with a reference, not the

actual attachement.  This should be a simple clickable link in the NNTP

message, so shouldn't cause much hardship there.

A side advantage of this is that placement can be preserved.  If a forum

user posts a picture in line with the text, the clickable link can appear

in the same location in the NNTP message.  This preserves more of the

original information than a attachment would, and of course avoids

replicating the data to every NNTP user.  Other forums, like Eagle Central,

could grab the file and display it in line as it originally appeared if

they choose to implement that.

Quote:

What needs to happen at E14 as the message is submitted

1) The message size is determined and it is announced that the message

will

not be accepted by NNTP due to total size.

No!

Now you're dumbing down the forum experience to suit NNTP.  I agree that

Farnell should put some effort into doing a good job mapping the forum

posts to NNTP, and I think there are reasonable ways to achieve this.

However, none of this must come at the expense of the forum users.

The forum is a richer environment where more information can be expressed.

Some information will have to be lost in translation to a text based format

like NNTP or SMTP.  I think this loss can be kept minimal and quite

tolerable with some cleverness and the willingness to do it.  But in the

end it's the forum at the core, and it's unreasonable to penalize the forum

users because some people prefer to receive messages via NNTP.

Progress marches on.  While I think we should do the best we can for the

NNTP users, we must not hold back everyone else in the process.

--

Web access to CadSoft support forums at www.eaglecentral.ca.  Where the CadSoft EAGLE community meets.

Olin Lathrop wrote:

warrenbrayshaw wrote on Mon, 26 September 2011 16:18

>> When the total message size exceeds 50k (message/attachment/wrapper)

>> it will

>> not be accepted by NNTP.

 

This is another good reason why the forum should never send NNTP

messages with attachments.  The file already has a known fixed URL on

the E14 servers, so the NNTP message should go out only with a

reference, not the actual attachement.  This should be a simple

clickable link in the NNTP message, so shouldn't cause much hardship

there.

 

A side advantage of this is that placement can be preserved.  If a

forum user posts a picture in line with the text, the clickable link

can appear in the same location in the NNTP message.  This preserves

more of the original information than a attachment would, and of

course avoids replicating the data to every NNTP user.  Other forums,

like Eagle Central, could grab the file and display it in line as it

originally appeared if they choose to implement that.

 

Quote:

>> What needs to happen at E14 as the message is submitted

>> 1) The message size is determined and it is announced that the

>> message will

>> not be accepted by NNTP due to total size.

 

No!

 

Now you're dumbing down the forum experience to suit NNTP.  I agree

that Farnell should put some effort into doing a good job mapping the

forum posts to NNTP, and I think there are reasonable ways to achieve

this. However, none of this must come at the expense of the forum

users.

 

The forum is a richer environment where more information can be

expressed. Some information will have to be lost in translation to a

text based format like NNTP or SMTP.  I think this loss can be kept

minimal and quite tolerable with some cleverness and the willingness

to do it.  But in the end it's the forum at the core, and it's

unreasonable to penalize the forum users because some people prefer

to receive messages via NNTP.

OK, Some vaid points. So following  your thinking a link to the image is the

way to go. It's a simple fix for E14 and does not damage NNTP, which is what

we are tryng to achieve here.

I have two reservations with the method.

(1) I can download an image/attachment from NNTP far faster than accessing

E14. I just do not wish to visit E14 due to delays that site incurs, not

helped by having to download a big fat lazy files permitted there.

(2) NNTP stored attachmants will be there two years later but links to files

stored around the net are often broken.

Warren

--

Viewed / responded via the newsgroup at

news.cadsoft.de

warrenbrayshaw wrote on Mon, 26 September 2011 17:52

I have two reservations with the method.

(1) I can download an image/attachment from NNTP far faster than

accessing

E14. I just do not wish to visit E14 due to delays that site incurs,

not

helped by having to download a big fat lazy files permitted there.

That's a implementation detail.  In this case we're only asking the E14

server to provide a single non-html file.  There is no reason this needs to

be slow.

Quote:

(2) NNTP stored attachmants will be there two years later but links to

files

stored around the net are often broken.

I'm not talking about links users added to a message.  Those would be as

before.  I'm talking about in line images and attachments people added to

their E14 forum posts.  These would be sent in NNTP by reference.  Since

these are part of the forum database, they should be available as long as

the forum is.

--

Web access to CadSoft support forums at www.eaglecentral.ca.  Where the CadSoft EAGLE community meets.

On 09/26/2011 07:32 PM, Olin Lathrop wrote:

warrenbrayshaw wrote on Mon, 26 September 2011 17:52

>> I have two reservations with the method.

>> (1) I can download an image/attachment from NNTP far faster than

>> accessing

>> E14. I just do not wish to visit E14 due to delays that site incurs,

>> not

>> helped by having to download a big fat lazy files permitted there.

 

That's a implementation detail.  In this case we're only asking the E14

server to provide a single non-html file.  There is no reason this needs to

be slow.

I'll second the motion for a simple reference.  No navigation necessary.

wget can pull it.  All you need is an http client.  Now who does not

have one of those?

 

Quote:

>> (2) NNTP stored attachmants will be there two years later but links to

>> files

>> stored around the net are often broken.

 

I'm not talking about links users added to a message.  Those would be as

before.  I'm talking about in line images and attachments people added to

their E14 forum posts.

The link would be valid as long as the referring message is valid.  They

should be the same age.  When two years rolls around, both would be

deleted at the same time.

Enjoy,

    - Chuck

Chuck Huber wrote on Tue, 27 September 2011 08:43

When two years rolls around, both would be

deleted at the same time.

They would both go away together whenever the element 14 administrators

decide old forum posts should be purged.  Where did you get the two years

from?  Is there a policy at E14 that posts of that age are purged?  That

would be surprising since I would think they would want to build up a

searchable database.  Most likely the post and its associated files would

be available a lot longer than in a pure NNTP world.

--

Web access to CadSoft support forums at www.eaglecentral.ca.  Where the CadSoft EAGLE community meets.

On 09/27/2011 08:43 AM, Olin Lathrop wrote:

Chuck Huber wrote on Tue, 27 September 2011 08:43

>> When two years rolls around, both would be

>> deleted at the same time.

 

They would both go away together whenever the element 14 administrators

decide old forum posts should be purged.  Where did you get the two years

from?  Is there a policy at E14 that posts of that age are purged?  That

would be surprising since I would think they would want to build up a

searchable database.  Most likely the post and its associated files would

be available a lot longer than in a pure NNTP world.

Hi,

After reading these recent posts, I would agree that the best approach

would be to include URLs to reference each asset (image or other file

type) in element14 posts exported to NNTP.  I will explore how this

could be implemented and provide feedback.

As was pointed out, one potential risk with this method is that the

assets would only be stored on the element14 servers.  However, there is

no policy to remove content after a certain period of time, and the

intention would be to host it indefinitely.

Thanks,

Drew Fustini

afustini@element14.com

element14 Community Dev Team

I'm amazed anyone can even use element14.

If they changed to phpbbs I might try them again but not until.

Their software is dismal to say the least.