Element14 - Attachment got through to newsg roup

warrenbrayshaw wrote on Mon, 26 September 2011 16:18

When the total message size exceeds 50k (message/attachment/wrapper) it

will

not be accepted by NNTP.

This is another good reason why the forum should never send NNTP messages

with attachments.  The file already has a known fixed URL on the E14

servers, so the NNTP message should go out only with a reference, not the

actual attachement.  This should be a simple clickable link in the NNTP

message, so shouldn't cause much hardship there.

A side advantage of this is that placement can be preserved.  If a forum

user posts a picture in line with the text, the clickable link can appear

in the same location in the NNTP message.  This preserves more of the

original information than a attachment would, and of course avoids

replicating the data to every NNTP user.  Other forums, like Eagle Central,

could grab the file and display it in line as it originally appeared if

they choose to implement that.

Quote:

What needs to happen at E14 as the message is submitted

1) The message size is determined and it is announced that the message

will

not be accepted by NNTP due to total size.

No!

Now you're dumbing down the forum experience to suit NNTP.  I agree that

Farnell should put some effort into doing a good job mapping the forum

posts to NNTP, and I think there are reasonable ways to achieve this.

However, none of this must come at the expense of the forum users.

The forum is a richer environment where more information can be expressed.

Some information will have to be lost in translation to a text based format

like NNTP or SMTP.  I think this loss can be kept minimal and quite

tolerable with some cleverness and the willingness to do it.  But in the

end it's the forum at the core, and it's unreasonable to penalize the forum

users because some people prefer to receive messages via NNTP.

Progress marches on.  While I think we should do the best we can for the

NNTP users, we must not hold back everyone else in the process.

--

Web access to CadSoft support forums at www.eaglecentral.ca.  Where the CadSoft EAGLE community meets.

Olin Lathrop wrote:

warrenbrayshaw wrote on Mon, 26 September 2011 16:18

>> When the total message size exceeds 50k (message/attachment/wrapper)

>> it will

>> not be accepted by NNTP.

 

This is another good reason why the forum should never send NNTP

messages with attachments.  The file already has a known fixed URL on

the E14 servers, so the NNTP message should go out only with a

reference, not the actual attachement.  This should be a simple

clickable link in the NNTP message, so shouldn't cause much hardship

there.

 

A side advantage of this is that placement can be preserved.  If a

forum user posts a picture in line with the text, the clickable link

can appear in the same location in the NNTP message.  This preserves

more of the original information than a attachment would, and of

course avoids replicating the data to every NNTP user.  Other forums,

like Eagle Central, could grab the file and display it in line as it

originally appeared if they choose to implement that.

 

Quote:

>> What needs to happen at E14 as the message is submitted

>> 1) The message size is determined and it is announced that the

>> message will

>> not be accepted by NNTP due to total size.

 

No!

 

Now you're dumbing down the forum experience to suit NNTP.  I agree

that Farnell should put some effort into doing a good job mapping the

forum posts to NNTP, and I think there are reasonable ways to achieve

this. However, none of this must come at the expense of the forum

users.

 

The forum is a richer environment where more information can be

expressed. Some information will have to be lost in translation to a

text based format like NNTP or SMTP.  I think this loss can be kept

minimal and quite tolerable with some cleverness and the willingness

to do it.  But in the end it's the forum at the core, and it's

unreasonable to penalize the forum users because some people prefer

to receive messages via NNTP.

OK, Some vaid points. So following  your thinking a link to the image is the

way to go. It's a simple fix for E14 and does not damage NNTP, which is what

we are tryng to achieve here.

I have two reservations with the method.

(1) I can download an image/attachment from NNTP far faster than accessing

E14. I just do not wish to visit E14 due to delays that site incurs, not

helped by having to download a big fat lazy files permitted there.

(2) NNTP stored attachmants will be there two years later but links to files

stored around the net are often broken.

Warren

--

Viewed / responded via the newsgroup at

news.cadsoft.de

warrenbrayshaw wrote on Mon, 26 September 2011 17:52

I have two reservations with the method.

(1) I can download an image/attachment from NNTP far faster than

accessing

E14. I just do not wish to visit E14 due to delays that site incurs,

not

helped by having to download a big fat lazy files permitted there.

That's a implementation detail.  In this case we're only asking the E14

server to provide a single non-html file.  There is no reason this needs to

be slow.

Quote:

(2) NNTP stored attachmants will be there two years later but links to

files

stored around the net are often broken.

I'm not talking about links users added to a message.  Those would be as

before.  I'm talking about in line images and attachments people added to

their E14 forum posts.  These would be sent in NNTP by reference.  Since

these are part of the forum database, they should be available as long as

the forum is.

--

Web access to CadSoft support forums at www.eaglecentral.ca.  Where the CadSoft EAGLE community meets.

On 09/26/2011 07:32 PM, Olin Lathrop wrote:

warrenbrayshaw wrote on Mon, 26 September 2011 17:52

>> I have two reservations with the method.

>> (1) I can download an image/attachment from NNTP far faster than

>> accessing

>> E14. I just do not wish to visit E14 due to delays that site incurs,

>> not

>> helped by having to download a big fat lazy files permitted there.

 

That's a implementation detail.  In this case we're only asking the E14

server to provide a single non-html file.  There is no reason this needs to

be slow.

I'll second the motion for a simple reference.  No navigation necessary.

wget can pull it.  All you need is an http client.  Now who does not

have one of those?

 

Quote:

>> (2) NNTP stored attachmants will be there two years later but links to

>> files

>> stored around the net are often broken.

 

I'm not talking about links users added to a message.  Those would be as

before.  I'm talking about in line images and attachments people added to

their E14 forum posts.

The link would be valid as long as the referring message is valid.  They

should be the same age.  When two years rolls around, both would be

deleted at the same time.

Enjoy,

    - Chuck

Chuck Huber wrote on Tue, 27 September 2011 08:43

When two years rolls around, both would be

deleted at the same time.

They would both go away together whenever the element 14 administrators

decide old forum posts should be purged.  Where did you get the two years

from?  Is there a policy at E14 that posts of that age are purged?  That

would be surprising since I would think they would want to build up a

searchable database.  Most likely the post and its associated files would

be available a lot longer than in a pure NNTP world.

--

Web access to CadSoft support forums at www.eaglecentral.ca.  Where the CadSoft EAGLE community meets.

On 09/27/2011 08:43 AM, Olin Lathrop wrote:

Chuck Huber wrote on Tue, 27 September 2011 08:43

>> When two years rolls around, both would be

>> deleted at the same time.

 

They would both go away together whenever the element 14 administrators

decide old forum posts should be purged.  Where did you get the two years

from?  Is there a policy at E14 that posts of that age are purged?  That

would be surprising since I would think they would want to build up a

searchable database.  Most likely the post and its associated files would

be available a lot longer than in a pure NNTP world.

Hi,

After reading these recent posts, I would agree that the best approach

would be to include URLs to reference each asset (image or other file

type) in element14 posts exported to NNTP.  I will explore how this

could be implemented and provide feedback.

As was pointed out, one potential risk with this method is that the

assets would only be stored on the element14 servers.  However, there is

no policy to remove content after a certain period of time, and the

intention would be to host it indefinitely.

Thanks,

Drew Fustini

afustini@element14.com

element14 Community Dev Team

I'm amazed anyone can even use element14.

If they changed to phpbbs I might try them again but not until.

Their software is dismal to say the least.