Is it worth persevering?

"Nigel Molesworth" <reply@thegroup.email.invalid> wrote in message

news:3065i45rmqefn0mg0m1jc3dt14uqsbmke5@4ax.com...

I'm tearing my hair out trying to get to grips with Eagle. I'm not sure if

it's me, but I find almost everything about it counter-intuitive.

 

I plan to make a couple of boards each year, for my own use. I'd happily

pay

a reasonable sum for a more intuitive package, but I like the fact that

Eagle files are widely used.

 

Is it worth persevering, or is there something out there that is

reasonably

priced, and will read Eagle files?

 

--

Nigel M

 

I'm discussing apples, so don't suggest bananas

Hi, Nigel

Bottom line is I'd certainly say "Yes, Eagle is the very best tool for

making PCB's that you currently can find at an affordable price." Hands

down, it's a fact.

That said, Eagle does present its own and unique high learning curve. But so

does any complex computer program. For example, MS Office is composed of

many interacting modules (Word, Access Power Point, etc.) and each of them

are themselves very complex and user modifiable. To really be proficient

with all the offered abilities of MS Office, or Eagle for that matter, takes

a large commitment in time and willingness to learn how to do all the things

a program is capable of. Until true AI comes along, there is no such thing

as "just use it". Because learning is confusing, there are classes to take

for learning how to use complex programs. Eagle is no exception, I think it

was in the Eagle userchat group that I just saw a recently posted message

where a class is being held in Canada by an Eagle dealer. But my experiences

with taking classes, such as for dBase, left me with much desired because

classes don't offer much individual training. I found that learning what I

need to know about any complex computer program was best performed by just

jumping in and learning how to get the results expected and, when necessary,

asking specific questions in forums, such as this one that this message is

posted to.

I'm from the pre Windows 3.1 days so the way Eagle goes about doing things

seems pretty obvious to me to be the way old programs were written before

Windows redefined certain functionalities. To me, it seems that the

underlying "engine" of Eagle is very old (but still very good at what it

does) and predates Windows itself and that's seems to be why things seem

counter intuitive when it comes to performing certain actions. For example,

the purpose of "copy" as used in Eagle is not the same as what it means when

using the same named function in Windows. But before Windows came along, how

Eagle does it now was exactly how it was done with most programs back in

those days. Since I date from back then the knowledge helped me, but I do

understand that a new user of Eagle will find the methodologies of just

using the program counter intuitive to the way it is done with programs that

are designed from the ground up to use Windows methods of doing things.

Then, of course, one must learn about the PCB industry itself because Eagle

is a tool that allows one to create files that industry needs to physically

create what is designed by using Eagle (or any other PCB related tool). The

old saying "garbage in, garbage out" applies because Eagle only does, with

user modifiable rules, exactly what you tell it to do. The physical PCB

industry has practical constraints on things such as the minimum width of

traces, pads, distance between pads and traces and board edges, and so on &

on, and not every board production house does things the same way. FT (feed

though) parts are old technology and perhaps the very easiest to design for

using Eagle. But SMD (surface mount device) is a different animal, you have

to understand what paste (aka cream) and "stop" and other terms, many of

which have "aka" terms too, mean to the industry. Eagle allows you to define

such things, but you have to know what they mean and so you have to take the

time to learn. If you're designing with RF (radio frequency) in mind, more

industry rules apply!

There's an even older saying: All good things come in time. That's what it's

going to take for the new PCB designer regardless of what program is used to

design with. Eagle is worth the effort, and it is cost effective.

And I'm saying all of the above as a relatively new user of any PCB deign

software whatsoever.

"Nigel Molesworth" <reply@thegroup.email.invalid> wrote in message

news:3065i45rmqefn0mg0m1jc3dt14uqsbmke5@4ax.com...

I'm tearing my hair out trying to get to grips with Eagle. I'm not sure if

it's me, but I find almost everything about it counter-intuitive.

 

I plan to make a couple of boards each year, for my own use. I'd happily

pay

a reasonable sum for a more intuitive package, but I like the fact that

Eagle files are widely used.

 

Is it worth persevering, or is there something out there that is

reasonably

priced, and will read Eagle files?

 

--

Nigel M

 

I'm discussing apples, so don't suggest bananas

Hi, Nigel

Bottom line is I'd certainly say "Yes, Eagle is the very best tool for

making PCB's that you currently can find at an affordable price." Hands

down, it's a fact.

That said, Eagle does present its own and unique high learning curve. But so

does any complex computer program. For example, MS Office is composed of

many interacting modules (Word, Access Power Point, etc.) and each of them

are themselves very complex and user modifiable. To really be proficient

with all the offered abilities of MS Office, or Eagle for that matter, takes

a large commitment in time and willingness to learn how to do all the things

a program is capable of. Until true AI comes along, there is no such thing

as "just use it". Because learning is confusing, there are classes to take

for learning how to use complex programs. Eagle is no exception, I think it

was in the Eagle userchat group that I just saw a recently posted message

where a class is being held in Canada by an Eagle dealer. But my experiences

with taking classes, such as for dBase, left me with much desired because

classes don't offer much individual training. I found that learning what I

need to know about any complex computer program was best performed by just

jumping in and learning how to get the results expected and, when necessary,

asking specific questions in forums, such as this one that this message is

posted to.

I'm from the pre Windows 3.1 days so the way Eagle goes about doing things

seems pretty obvious to me to be the way old programs were written before

Windows redefined certain functionalities. To me, it seems that the

underlying "engine" of Eagle is very old (but still very good at what it

does) and predates Windows itself and that's seems to be why things seem

counter intuitive when it comes to performing certain actions. For example,

the purpose of "copy" as used in Eagle is not the same as what it means when

using the same named function in Windows. But before Windows came along, how

Eagle does it now was exactly how it was done with most programs back in

those days. Since I date from back then the knowledge helped me, but I do

understand that a new user of Eagle will find the methodologies of just

using the program counter intuitive to the way it is done with programs that

are designed from the ground up to use Windows methods of doing things.

Then, of course, one must learn about the PCB industry itself because Eagle

is a tool that allows one to create files that industry needs to physically

create what is designed by using Eagle (or any other PCB related tool). The

old saying "garbage in, garbage out" applies because Eagle only does, with

user modifiable rules, exactly what you tell it to do. The physical PCB

industry has practical constraints on things such as the minimum width of

traces, pads, distance between pads and traces and board edges, and so on &

on, and not every board production house does things the same way. FT (feed

though) parts are old technology and perhaps the very easiest to design for

using Eagle. But SMD (surface mount device) is a different animal, you have

to understand what paste (aka cream) and "stop" and other terms, many of

which have "aka" terms too, mean to the industry. Eagle allows you to define

such things, but you have to know what they mean and so you have to take the

time to learn. If you're designing with RF (radio frequency) in mind, more

industry rules apply!

There's an even older saying: All good things come in time. That's what it's

going to take for the new PCB designer regardless of what program is used to

design with. Eagle is worth the effort, and it is cost effective.

And I'm saying all of the above as a relatively new user of any PCB deign

software whatsoever.