Is it worth persevering?

RGM wrote:

"Nigel Molesworth" <reply@thegroup.email.invalid> wrote in message

news:3065i45rmqefn0mg0m1jc3dt14uqsbmke5@4ax.com...

I'm tearing my hair out trying to get to grips with Eagle. I'm not

sure if

it's me, but I find almost everything about it counter-intuitive.

 

I plan to make a couple of boards each year, for my own use. I'd

happily pay

a reasonable sum for a more intuitive package, but I like the fact that

Eagle files are widely used.

 

Is it worth persevering, or is there something out there that is

reasonably

priced, and will read Eagle files?

 

--

Nigel M

 

I'm discussing apples, so don't suggest bananas

 

Hi, Nigel

Bottom line is I'd certainly say "Yes, Eagle is the very best tool for

making PCB's that you currently can find at an affordable price." Hands

down, it's a fact.

 

That said, Eagle does present its own and unique high learning curve.

But so does any complex computer program. For example, MS Office is

composed of many interacting modules (Word, Access Power Point, etc.)

and each of them are themselves very complex and user modifiable. To

really be proficient with all the offered abilities of MS Office, or

Eagle for that matter, takes a large commitment in time and willingness

to learn how to do all the things a program is capable of. Until true AI

comes along, there is no such thing as "just use it". Because learning

is confusing, there are classes to take for learning how to use complex

programs. Eagle is no exception, I think it was in the Eagle userchat

group that I just saw a recently posted message where a class is being

held in Canada by an Eagle dealer. But my experiences with taking

classes, such as for dBase, left me with much desired because classes

don't offer much individual training. I found that learning what I need

to know about any complex computer program was best performed by just

jumping in and learning how to get the results expected and, when

necessary, asking specific questions in forums, such as this one that

this message is posted to.

 

I'm from the pre Windows 3.1 days so the way Eagle goes about doing

things seems pretty obvious to me to be the way old programs were

written before Windows redefined certain functionalities. To me, it

seems that the underlying "engine" of Eagle is very old (but still very

good at what it does) and predates Windows itself and that's seems to be

why things seem counter intuitive when it comes to performing certain

actions. For example, the purpose of "copy" as used in Eagle is not the

same as what it means when using the same named function in Windows. But

before Windows came along, how Eagle does it now was exactly how it was

done with most programs back in those days. Since I date from back then

the knowledge helped me, but I do understand that a new user of Eagle

will find the methodologies of just using the program counter intuitive

to the way it is done with programs that are designed from the ground up

to use Windows methods of doing things.

 

Then, of course, one must learn about the PCB industry itself because

Eagle is a tool that allows one to create files that industry needs to

physically create what is designed by using Eagle (or any other PCB

related tool). The old saying "garbage in, garbage out" applies because

Eagle only does, with user modifiable rules, exactly what you tell it to

do. The physical PCB industry has practical constraints on things such

as the minimum width of traces, pads, distance between pads and traces

and board edges, and so on & on, and not every board production house

does things the same way. FT (feed though) parts are old technology and

perhaps the very easiest to design for using Eagle. But SMD (surface

mount device) is a different animal, you have to understand what paste

(aka cream) and "stop" and other terms, many of which have "aka" terms

too, mean to the industry. Eagle allows you to define such things, but

you have to know what they mean and so you have to take the time to

learn. If you're designing with RF (radio frequency) in mind, more

industry rules apply!

 

There's an even older saying: All good things come in time. That's what

it's going to take for the new PCB designer regardless of what program

is used to design with. Eagle is worth the effort, and it is cost

effective.

 

And I'm saying all of the above as a relatively new user of any PCB

deign software whatsoever.

have a look at the tutorials here. http://www.tangentsoft.net/elec/movies/

RGM wrote:

"Nigel Molesworth" <reply@thegroup.email.invalid> wrote in message

news:3065i45rmqefn0mg0m1jc3dt14uqsbmke5@4ax.com...

I'm tearing my hair out trying to get to grips with Eagle. I'm not

sure if

it's me, but I find almost everything about it counter-intuitive.

 

I plan to make a couple of boards each year, for my own use. I'd

happily pay

a reasonable sum for a more intuitive package, but I like the fact that

Eagle files are widely used.

 

Is it worth persevering, or is there something out there that is

reasonably

priced, and will read Eagle files?

 

--

Nigel M

 

I'm discussing apples, so don't suggest bananas

 

Hi, Nigel

Bottom line is I'd certainly say "Yes, Eagle is the very best tool for

making PCB's that you currently can find at an affordable price." Hands

down, it's a fact.

 

That said, Eagle does present its own and unique high learning curve.

But so does any complex computer program. For example, MS Office is

composed of many interacting modules (Word, Access Power Point, etc.)

and each of them are themselves very complex and user modifiable. To

really be proficient with all the offered abilities of MS Office, or

Eagle for that matter, takes a large commitment in time and willingness

to learn how to do all the things a program is capable of. Until true AI

comes along, there is no such thing as "just use it". Because learning

is confusing, there are classes to take for learning how to use complex

programs. Eagle is no exception, I think it was in the Eagle userchat

group that I just saw a recently posted message where a class is being

held in Canada by an Eagle dealer. But my experiences with taking

classes, such as for dBase, left me with much desired because classes

don't offer much individual training. I found that learning what I need

to know about any complex computer program was best performed by just

jumping in and learning how to get the results expected and, when

necessary, asking specific questions in forums, such as this one that

this message is posted to.

 

I'm from the pre Windows 3.1 days so the way Eagle goes about doing

things seems pretty obvious to me to be the way old programs were

written before Windows redefined certain functionalities. To me, it

seems that the underlying "engine" of Eagle is very old (but still very

good at what it does) and predates Windows itself and that's seems to be

why things seem counter intuitive when it comes to performing certain

actions. For example, the purpose of "copy" as used in Eagle is not the

same as what it means when using the same named function in Windows. But

before Windows came along, how Eagle does it now was exactly how it was

done with most programs back in those days. Since I date from back then

the knowledge helped me, but I do understand that a new user of Eagle

will find the methodologies of just using the program counter intuitive

to the way it is done with programs that are designed from the ground up

to use Windows methods of doing things.

 

Then, of course, one must learn about the PCB industry itself because

Eagle is a tool that allows one to create files that industry needs to

physically create what is designed by using Eagle (or any other PCB

related tool). The old saying "garbage in, garbage out" applies because

Eagle only does, with user modifiable rules, exactly what you tell it to

do. The physical PCB industry has practical constraints on things such

as the minimum width of traces, pads, distance between pads and traces

and board edges, and so on & on, and not every board production house

does things the same way. FT (feed though) parts are old technology and

perhaps the very easiest to design for using Eagle. But SMD (surface

mount device) is a different animal, you have to understand what paste

(aka cream) and "stop" and other terms, many of which have "aka" terms

too, mean to the industry. Eagle allows you to define such things, but

you have to know what they mean and so you have to take the time to

learn. If you're designing with RF (radio frequency) in mind, more

industry rules apply!

 

There's an even older saying: All good things come in time. That's what

it's going to take for the new PCB designer regardless of what program

is used to design with. Eagle is worth the effort, and it is cost

effective.

 

And I'm saying all of the above as a relatively new user of any PCB

deign software whatsoever.

have a look at the tutorials here. http://www.tangentsoft.net/elec/movies/