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EAGLE User Chat (English) Eagle v8 licensing...
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  • Replies 415 replies
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  • eagle
  • license
  • freeware
  • 8.0
Related

Eagle v8 licensing...

technolomaniac
technolomaniac over 8 years ago

Hi All --

 

Moving this to a separate thread so it doesn't get lost in the ether.  Here's my two cents on licensing and I'd love your feedback:

 

Firstly, the Autodesk licensing model is subscription and the EAGLE paid license will require that you install the SW and then generate an account to retrieve your license entitlement.  Once you have this, you are good to go and the SW will run as expected.  If you lose your network connection, the SW has a 14-day heartbeat that will enable you to work offline for 14 days.  I know that some folks would prefer to never have to connect, but this is required to support a monthly subscription model that can be selectively enabled and disabled when you use the SW (so you only pay when you use it).  The total cost of ownership for those folks using it less than a few weeks a year will thus be substantially lower and still enables you to access the full software for less money.  <Insert revolt here>  image

 

WRT to "what happens if autodesk decides to one day just shut off the license server?" ...ok, sure, that's possible, but so is a reality TV star becoming President of the..cough...nevermind, bad example.

 

Point is, that's a pretty remote possibility (think: time travel and alien invasions) and it wouldn't benefit us *at all* to upset the users we just spent real money hoping to bring into autodesk and earn their business.  As the guy with both development and P&L for the product, I can tell you that it's counterintuitive and wouldn't benefit us at all.  We know this.  We make SW used by governments, movie studios, game developers, MEs, Civil Engineers, machinists, etc. and you can bet that shutting down a license server is not to our benefit in any of these categories.  To demonstrate this behavior in one category, without a path for user SW and data, calls into question ALL of our tools' viability under this model.  Not helpful.

 

Now...a question was raised about "but what if I drop my subscription and I want my data".  Awesome, the data is yours and lives on your machine.  And for SW that stores data in the cloud (we have some of these) we always provide a path to your data.  If this again fails with one product, it puts all of the others up for discussion.  Again, not helpful.  (Read:  strategy = doomed).

 

"So what about needing an entitlement for the freeware to open the data I created in another version (a *paid* version) and reading it?  What if I want access and I dont want the 14-day time out?"

 

So here's the deal...We can do better here.  So we will.  Here's my commitment to the group here for freeware that ensures you always have a license that you can fall back on without need of internet connection *except when you first install it* (which after all, you would have had to get it in the first place):  in version 8.1 or 8.0.1 or whathaveyou (let's call it 'a future release'), if you install the SW and authenticate once, we'll remove the timer req.  So what I'm saying another way is, the freeware will require you to login the first time to get your license, but if you log out beyond that, you're good.  You got your entitlement and you can use it freely without connection.

 

Caveat:  to install an update, you will need to login.  The update server (which issues the new version...e.g. 8.1 or 8.2. or 8.0.1, etc.) requires that you login and get the update, but beyond that, logout.  Thus if you want to go off-grid in a mountain cabin somewhere, get your license at Starbucks (blagh! I understand they have 'free' wifi, but no frappucinos!  ...that stuff is bad for you) then get your license and go on your merry way up to the snow drenched peaks.  When you hear from the other mountaineers or your local yodeler that a new version of EAGLE is available...download, login, get your license, get your 'decaf double-pump vanilla non-fat latte macchiato' and head back up the slopes.

 

Point being, we can do the freeware better.  So we will.

 

Hope this is clear.  Let us know if you have questions!

 

Best regards,

 

Matt Berggren

Director - Autodesk

@technolomaniac

hackaday.io/matt

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Top Replies

  • COMPACT
    COMPACT over 8 years ago in reply to autodeskguest +4
    Not to worry, it's back to the Drawing board for me.
  • shabaz
    shabaz over 8 years ago +3
    Hi Matt, When will the EAGLE Maker version (or another solution for hobbiests) be v8-ready? I see the subscription for 'EAGLE Standard' and 'EAGLE Premium' are now available on the website, but not EAGLE…
  • albertovignati
    albertovignati over 8 years ago in reply to techsupport +3
    Il 21/02/2017 22:54, Ed Robledo ha scritto: The customers are the sole driving force to the improvements to EAGLE. Some of these 'wants' take time to be done right, that's the reason they were not done…
Parents
  • tek
    tek over 8 years ago

    Having been burned years ago with the AutocadLT debacle, I guess it's time for me to swallow the KiCad pill as well.

     

    But at least I will still have Eagle 6.x to be able to work with my existing designs. The importance of this was just driven home here: Last week I spun up a Protel98 instance to get at an old design. Yep, it still works.

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  • tek
    tek over 8 years ago

    Having been burned years ago with the AutocadLT debacle, I guess it's time for me to swallow the KiCad pill as well.

     

    But at least I will still have Eagle 6.x to be able to work with my existing designs. The importance of this was just driven home here: Last week I spun up a Protel98 instance to get at an old design. Yep, it still works.

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  • autodeskguest
    autodeskguest over 8 years ago in reply to tek

    Tom Kopec <noreply-143408@element14.com> wrote:

    ...

    But at least I will still have Eagle 6.x to be able to work with my

    existing designs. The importance of this was just driven home here: Last

    week I spun up a Protel98 instance to get at an old design. Yep, it still

    works.

     

    Autodesk requires you to delete older versions when you upgrade!

     

    Another showstopper.

    --

    Uwe Bonnes                bon@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de

     

    Institut fuer Kernphysik  Schlossgartenstrasse 9  64289 Darmstadt

    -


    Tel. 06151 1623569 -


    Fax. 06151 1623305 -


     

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  • lynxofsausage
    lynxofsausage over 8 years ago in reply to autodeskguest

    Someone on HaD pointed out the terms of service that stated you also forfeit your previous license when you upgrade.  I don't understand the legal basis for that.  If I previously purchased a 7.x license in the past, I own that license - period.  Even if I buy a 1 year subscription to 8.0 -> whatever is out in 1 year, I don't forfeit what I've already paid for.  AutoDesk has no legal grounds for this.  If I lease a new car for full lease price, I don't have to give the dealership my old used car - even if I had purchased it from them in the past.

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  • rbtx99
    rbtx99 over 8 years ago in reply to lynxofsausage

    They can if it is a clear part of an upgrade license contract. However given that is is subscription based you can get the subscription independently and that way they can't force anything on your old license.

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  • autodeskguest
    autodeskguest over 8 years ago in reply to autodeskguest

    On 20.01.2017 13:13, Uwe Bonnes wrote:

    Tom Kopec <noreply-143408@element14.com> wrote:

    ...

    But at least I will still have Eagle 6.x to be able to work with my

    existing designs. The importance of this was just driven home here: Last

    week I spun up a Protel98 instance to get at an old design. Yep, it still

    works.

     

    Autodesk requires you to delete older versions when you upgrade!

     

    Another showstopper.

     

     

    What? Can this be right? I did wonder where I could get at a trial for

    V8, but it can wait. I will not feel good if I have to remove my 7.7.0

    to even try V8.

     

     

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  • autodeskguest
    autodeskguest over 8 years ago in reply to autodeskguest

    On 1/20/2017 7:48 AM, Morten Leikvoll wrote:

    On 20.01.2017 13:13, Uwe Bonnes wrote:

    Tom Kopec <noreply-143408@element14.com> wrote:

    ...

    But at least I will still have Eagle 6.x to be able to work with my

    existing designs. The importance of this was just driven home here: Last

    week I spun up a Protel98 instance to get at an old design. Yep, it

    still

    works.

     

    Autodesk requires you to delete older versions when you upgrade!

     

    Another showstopper.

     

     

    What? Can this be right? I did wonder where I could get at a trial for

    V8, but it can wait. I will not feel good if I have to remove my 7.7.0

    to even try V8.

     

     

    Hi Everyone,

     

    No one has to remove anything, Autodesk will not be hunting anyone down.

    Remember that these terms apply to V8 moving forward. You guys have

    perpetual V7 licenses and you can continue to use them forever as it has

    always been.

     

    Things only change with V8 going forward.

     

    hth,

    Jorge Garcia

     

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  • autodeskguest
    autodeskguest over 8 years ago in reply to autodeskguest

    Am 20.01.2017 um 19:42 schrieb Jorge Garcia:

    On 1/20/2017 7:48 AM, Morten Leikvoll wrote:

    On 20.01.2017 13:13, Uwe Bonnes wrote:

    Tom Kopec <noreply-143408@element14.com> wrote:

    ...

    But at least I will still have Eagle 6.x to be able to work with my

    existing designs. The importance of this was just driven home here:

    Last

    week I spun up a Protel98 instance to get at an old design. Yep, it

    still

    works.

     

    Autodesk requires you to delete older versions when you upgrade!

     

    Another showstopper.

     

     

    What? Can this be right? I did wonder where I could get at a trial for

    V8, but it can wait. I will not feel good if I have to remove my 7.7.0

    to even try V8.

     

     

    Hi Everyone,

     

    No one has to remove anything, Autodesk will not be hunting anyone down.

    Remember that these terms apply to V8 moving forward. You guys have

    perpetual V7 licenses and you can continue to use them forever as it has

    always been.

     

    Things only change with V8 going forward.

     

    hth,

    Jorge Garcia

     

    IMHO not quite correct.

    This is part license aggreement from Version 7.7.0:

     

    "

    1.2.1 Effect of Upgrades. If Autodesk or a Reseller provides Licensee

    with an Upgrade to other Licensed Materials previously licensed to

    Licensee, the Licensed Materials previously licensed to Licensee and any

    other Autodesk Materials relating thereto will thereafter be deemed to

    be a “Previous Version.” Except as set forth in Section 1.2.2 (Exception

    for Relationship Program Licensees), the license grant and other rights

    with respect to any Previous Version will terminate one hundred twenty

    (120) days after Installation of the Upgrade. Within such one hundred

    twenty (120) day period, except as set forth in Section 1.2.2 (Exception

    for Relationship Program Licensees), (a) Licensee must cease all use of

    any Previous Version and Uninstall all copies of the Previous Version,

    and (b) upon expiration of such period, such Previous Version will no

    longer constitute Licensed Materials but rather will be deemed to be

    Excluded Materials and Licensee will no longer have a license for any

    such Previous Version. At Autodesk’s request, Licensee agrees to destroy

    or return to Autodesk or the Reseller from which they were acquired all

    copies of the Previous Version. Autodesk reserves the right to require

    Licensee to show satisfactory proof that all copies of any Previous

    Version have been Uninstalled and, if so requested by Autodesk,

    destroyed or returned to Autodesk or the Reseller from which they were

    acquired.

    "

     

     

    --

    Mit freundlichen Grüßen / With best regards

     

    Joern Paschedag

     

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  • autodeskguest
    autodeskguest over 8 years ago in reply to autodeskguest

    On 21/01/2017 7:42 a.m., Jorge Garcia wrote:

    On 1/20/2017 7:48 AM, Morten Leikvoll wrote:

    On 20.01.2017 13:13, Uwe Bonnes wrote:

    Tom Kopec <noreply-143408@element14.com> wrote:

    ...

    But at least I will still have Eagle 6.x to be able to work with my

    existing designs. The importance of this was just driven home here:

    Last

    week I spun up a Protel98 instance to get at an old design. Yep, it

    still

    works.

     

    Autodesk requires you to delete older versions when you upgrade!

     

    Another showstopper.

     

     

    What? Can this be right? I did wonder where I could get at a trial for

    V8, but it can wait. I will not feel good if I have to remove my 7.7.0

    to even try V8.

     

     

    Hi Everyone,

     

    No one has to remove anything, Autodesk will not be hunting anyone down.

    Remember that these terms apply to V8 moving forward. You guys have

    perpetual V7 licenses and you can continue to use them forever as it has

    always been.

     

    Things only change with V8 going forward.

     

    hth,

    Jorge Garcia

     

     

    No, that does not help.

     

    Should one write a ULP in the version 8 era it needs to be tested on

    earlier releases, should there have been any ulp additions along the way.

     

    Being able to test in an earlier version of v8 will be problematical if

    one has kept updating within their subscription'

     

    I do suspect it may not even be possible for future eagles to be

    co-installed. In that case you will need a secondary PC that has not had

    upgrades applied so you do have an 8.0 to test on.

     

    ULPs and the community are very connected. Break one and you break the other

     

    I notice you have to 'hard' install v8. Now I cannot do, as I did for

    7.7 and earlier where I don't install but rename the .exe to.zip, unzip

    and run it isolated from the other earlier versions. You do loose

    eaglecon but it is my preference.

     

    Warren

     

     

    --

    ... use NNTP://news.cadsoft.de and a functional news reader like

    Thunderbird!

    ... or http://www.eaglecentral.ca browser access to CadSoft EAGLE

    support forums.

     

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  • autodeskguest
    autodeskguest over 8 years ago in reply to autodeskguest

    warrenbrayshaw wrote on Sat, 21 January 2017 21:42

    I notice you have to 'hard' install v8. Now I cannot do, as I did for

    7.7 and earlier where I don't install but rename the .exe to.zip, unzip

     

    and run it isolated from the other earlier versions. You do loose

    eaglecon but it is my preference.

     

    Warren

     

     

    I noticed that too.  Luckily on Mac I can just rename/move the folder to

    where I want it with no registry to edit.

     

    Having multiple versions of EAGLE on one machine is absolutely vital for

    normal, professional operation.  I don't blindly go from one version to

    the next, especially in the middle of projects.  I'll install a new

    version, create some gerbers from older projects and compare output to

    ensure that nothing funny is going on.  That's a bare minimum.  No

    professional worth his/her salt is going to just jump blindly to a new

    version and delete an earlier version.

     

    Cheers,

     

    James.

    --

    James Morrison  ~~~  Stratford Digital

    http://www.stratforddigital.ca

    --

    EAGLE support forums at http://www.eaglecentral.ca :: Where the EAGLE community meets.

     

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  • technolomaniac
    technolomaniac over 8 years ago in reply to lynxofsausage

    This doesnt apply to this scenario as you previous license was under a Cadsoft license agreement.  We have no authority or interest in doing anything to that license as it was a different legal framework under which you made that agreement.  Under subscription, there is no "major" release and thus that clause would never apply ...i.e. version 8.0 of EAGLE is only a version number for convenience...as we move forward, this is just EAGLE and there is no "Upgrade" (only an "Update") and thus nothing to force anyone to stop using an older license.

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  • Joop14
    Joop14 over 8 years ago in reply to technolomaniac

    Matt,

     

    You have been proved untrustworthy.

    Why should we trust you now??

     

    Quote:

    @Dave, it's not going subscription.  So there.  image  At this stage, that

    isn't anywhere on my roadmap.  Thought about it.  Decided against it.

    Can I say that we will never in the life of any product do that?  No, of

    course not.

     

     

    http://www.eevblog.com/forum/eda/autodesk-buys-eagle/msg977529/#msg977529

     

    So, everything you say now will be worthless within six months!

     

    And you want me to trust our business to you?

     

     

     

     

    --

    EAGLE support forums at http://www.eaglecentral.ca :: Where the EAGLE community meets.

     

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