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Autodesk EAGLE
EAGLE User Chat (English) Eagle v8 licensing...
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  • eagle
  • license
  • freeware
  • 8.0
Related

Eagle v8 licensing...

technolomaniac
technolomaniac over 8 years ago

Hi All --

 

Moving this to a separate thread so it doesn't get lost in the ether.  Here's my two cents on licensing and I'd love your feedback:

 

Firstly, the Autodesk licensing model is subscription and the EAGLE paid license will require that you install the SW and then generate an account to retrieve your license entitlement.  Once you have this, you are good to go and the SW will run as expected.  If you lose your network connection, the SW has a 14-day heartbeat that will enable you to work offline for 14 days.  I know that some folks would prefer to never have to connect, but this is required to support a monthly subscription model that can be selectively enabled and disabled when you use the SW (so you only pay when you use it).  The total cost of ownership for those folks using it less than a few weeks a year will thus be substantially lower and still enables you to access the full software for less money.  <Insert revolt here>  image

 

WRT to "what happens if autodesk decides to one day just shut off the license server?" ...ok, sure, that's possible, but so is a reality TV star becoming President of the..cough...nevermind, bad example.

 

Point is, that's a pretty remote possibility (think: time travel and alien invasions) and it wouldn't benefit us *at all* to upset the users we just spent real money hoping to bring into autodesk and earn their business.  As the guy with both development and P&L for the product, I can tell you that it's counterintuitive and wouldn't benefit us at all.  We know this.  We make SW used by governments, movie studios, game developers, MEs, Civil Engineers, machinists, etc. and you can bet that shutting down a license server is not to our benefit in any of these categories.  To demonstrate this behavior in one category, without a path for user SW and data, calls into question ALL of our tools' viability under this model.  Not helpful.

 

Now...a question was raised about "but what if I drop my subscription and I want my data".  Awesome, the data is yours and lives on your machine.  And for SW that stores data in the cloud (we have some of these) we always provide a path to your data.  If this again fails with one product, it puts all of the others up for discussion.  Again, not helpful.  (Read:  strategy = doomed).

 

"So what about needing an entitlement for the freeware to open the data I created in another version (a *paid* version) and reading it?  What if I want access and I dont want the 14-day time out?"

 

So here's the deal...We can do better here.  So we will.  Here's my commitment to the group here for freeware that ensures you always have a license that you can fall back on without need of internet connection *except when you first install it* (which after all, you would have had to get it in the first place):  in version 8.1 or 8.0.1 or whathaveyou (let's call it 'a future release'), if you install the SW and authenticate once, we'll remove the timer req.  So what I'm saying another way is, the freeware will require you to login the first time to get your license, but if you log out beyond that, you're good.  You got your entitlement and you can use it freely without connection.

 

Caveat:  to install an update, you will need to login.  The update server (which issues the new version...e.g. 8.1 or 8.2. or 8.0.1, etc.) requires that you login and get the update, but beyond that, logout.  Thus if you want to go off-grid in a mountain cabin somewhere, get your license at Starbucks (blagh! I understand they have 'free' wifi, but no frappucinos!  ...that stuff is bad for you) then get your license and go on your merry way up to the snow drenched peaks.  When you hear from the other mountaineers or your local yodeler that a new version of EAGLE is available...download, login, get your license, get your 'decaf double-pump vanilla non-fat latte macchiato' and head back up the slopes.

 

Point being, we can do the freeware better.  So we will.

 

Hope this is clear.  Let us know if you have questions!

 

Best regards,

 

Matt Berggren

Director - Autodesk

@technolomaniac

hackaday.io/matt

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Top Replies

  • COMPACT
    COMPACT over 8 years ago in reply to autodeskguest +4
    Not to worry, it's back to the Drawing board for me.
  • shabaz
    shabaz over 8 years ago +3
    Hi Matt, When will the EAGLE Maker version (or another solution for hobbiests) be v8-ready? I see the subscription for 'EAGLE Standard' and 'EAGLE Premium' are now available on the website, but not EAGLE…
  • albertovignati
    albertovignati over 8 years ago in reply to techsupport +3
    Il 21/02/2017 22:54, Ed Robledo ha scritto: The customers are the sole driving force to the improvements to EAGLE. Some of these 'wants' take time to be done right, that's the reason they were not done…
Parents
  • Gamma_Sistemi
    Gamma_Sistemi over 8 years ago

    Why do I have to spend money in advance to buy an Eagle feature that maybe I will not use?

    When I bought my Eagle license, I evaluated the features that I needed and what the program offered.

     

    How many updates will be released in the subscription month/year?

    What kind of updates will be released?

    I hope they are just new features, because bug fixes should be free.

     

    Sorry, but I pay only for the functions I'm sure that I'll use in my work.

    So probably, I keep my license 7.7 and simultaneously I'll try an alternative product.

     

    Best Regards,

    Roberto

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  • rachaelp
    rachaelp over 8 years ago in reply to Gamma_Sistemi

    Roberto Pedrazzoli wrote:

     

    Why do I have to spend money in advance to buy an Eagle feature that maybe I will not use?

    When I bought my Eagle license, I evaluated the features that I needed and what the program offered.

    You aren't paying money in advance to buy features you may not use. You are renting the product for the period of the subscription.

     

    Roberto Pedrazzoli wrote:

     

    How many updates will be released in the subscription month/year?

    What kind of updates will be released?

    I hope they are just new features, because bug fixes should be free.

    There will be a mixture of both but it's irrelevant because if you have an active subscription you will be entitled to update to a newer version that fixes the bugs, if you don't you won't be entitled to use anything but the freeware version. You will still be able to update your software to the latest freeware version which fixes these bugs but you may not be able to take advantage of the fixes because you may not be able to use them with the freeware restrictions.

     

    Roberto Pedrazzoli wrote:

     

    Sorry, but I pay only for the functions I'm sure that I'll use in my work.

    So probably, I keep my license 7.7 and simultaneously I'll try an alternative product.

    Really? Do you take every piece of software, divide it up by the number of features, assign a "worth" to each of those and offer the supplier what you think those features are worth?

     

    The big three ECAD vendors, Mentor, Altium and Cadence, all sell their tools with a requirement to also buy annual support which entitles you to assistance and to download updates and bug fixes. Without paying the large annual maintenance fee you get nothing and the licenses often become unavailable unless you also pay a one-off additional fee to convert to a perpetual archive license once you stop paying for maintenance. It's this last part that the current Autodesk model doesn't cover which is causing most issues for professional users. i.e. what do we do in 10-15 years time when we need to access an old design?

     

    Best Regards,


    Rachael

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  • rachaelp
    rachaelp over 8 years ago in reply to Gamma_Sistemi

    Roberto Pedrazzoli wrote:

     

    Why do I have to spend money in advance to buy an Eagle feature that maybe I will not use?

    When I bought my Eagle license, I evaluated the features that I needed and what the program offered.

    You aren't paying money in advance to buy features you may not use. You are renting the product for the period of the subscription.

     

    Roberto Pedrazzoli wrote:

     

    How many updates will be released in the subscription month/year?

    What kind of updates will be released?

    I hope they are just new features, because bug fixes should be free.

    There will be a mixture of both but it's irrelevant because if you have an active subscription you will be entitled to update to a newer version that fixes the bugs, if you don't you won't be entitled to use anything but the freeware version. You will still be able to update your software to the latest freeware version which fixes these bugs but you may not be able to take advantage of the fixes because you may not be able to use them with the freeware restrictions.

     

    Roberto Pedrazzoli wrote:

     

    Sorry, but I pay only for the functions I'm sure that I'll use in my work.

    So probably, I keep my license 7.7 and simultaneously I'll try an alternative product.

    Really? Do you take every piece of software, divide it up by the number of features, assign a "worth" to each of those and offer the supplier what you think those features are worth?

     

    The big three ECAD vendors, Mentor, Altium and Cadence, all sell their tools with a requirement to also buy annual support which entitles you to assistance and to download updates and bug fixes. Without paying the large annual maintenance fee you get nothing and the licenses often become unavailable unless you also pay a one-off additional fee to convert to a perpetual archive license once you stop paying for maintenance. It's this last part that the current Autodesk model doesn't cover which is causing most issues for professional users. i.e. what do we do in 10-15 years time when we need to access an old design?

     

    Best Regards,


    Rachael

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  • albertovignati
    albertovignati over 8 years ago in reply to rachaelp

    Hi Rachael,

     

    "The big three ECAD vendors, Mentor, Altium and Cadence, all sell their tools with a requirement to also buy annual support which entitles you to assistance and to download updates and bug fixes. Without paying the large annual maintenance fee you get nothing and the licenses often become unavailable unless you also pay a one-off additional fee to convert to a perpetual archive license once you stop paying for maintenance. It's this last part that the current Autodesk model doesn't cover which is causing most issues for professional users. i.e. what do we do in 10-15 years time when we need to access an old design?"

     

    that's the point: Autodesk at this time does not offer a perpetual licence, for me this means that I still use the old version of Eagle for the old and current projects and for the new I will switch to an alternative which gives me the assurance to edit and manage a project forever. This is the lifecycle of my designs and the reason of which it is not acceptable the new schema. Unless Autodesk changes its policies this is what I will do.

     

    Best regards

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  • autodeskguest
    autodeskguest over 8 years ago in reply to albertovignati

    On Wed, 25 Jan 2017 16:46:53 GMT, Alberto Vignati

    <noreply-491088@element14.com> wrote:

     

    Hi Rachael,

     

    *It's this last part that the current Autodesk model doesn't cover which is causing most issues for professional users. i.e. what do

    we do in 10-15 years time when we need to access an old design*?+"

     

    Bingo!

     

    As coincidence would have it, I had a customer call me at 8AM this

    morning (Saturday) to tell me that his induction heater, S/N 02 from

    2009 had quit working.

     

    Fortunately I'd left all versions of Eagle I've ever owned installed

    on my computer so I could go into SVN, call up the old schematic and

    tell him what parts to change based on the diagnostic codes.

     

    I will NEVER EVER use software where I can't do that!

     

    John

    John DeArmond

    http://www.neon-john.com

    http://www.tnduction.com

    Tellico Plains, Occupied TN

    See website for email address

     

     

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  • autodeskguest
    autodeskguest over 8 years ago in reply to autodeskguest

    On 28/01/2017 5:48 a.m., Neon John wrote:

    On Wed, 25 Jan 2017 16:46:53 GMT, Alberto Vignati

    <noreply-491088@element14.com> wrote:

     

    Hi Rachael,

     

    *It's this last part that the current Autodesk model doesn't cover which is causing most issues for professional users. i.e. what do

    we do in 10-15 years time when we need to access an old design*?+"

     

    Bingo!

     

    As coincidence would have it, I had a customer call me at 8AM this

    morning (Saturday) to tell me that his induction heater, S/N 02 from

    2009 had quit working.

     

    Fortunately I'd left all versions of Eagle I've ever owned installed

    on my computer so I could go into SVN, call up the old schematic and

    tell him what parts to change based on the diagnostic codes.

     

    I will NEVER EVER use software where I can't do that!

     

    John

    John DeArmond

    http://www.neon-john.com

    http://www.tnduction.com

    Tellico Plains, Occupied TN

    See website for email address

     

     

     

    Hi all

    In  the interest of accuracy. You will always be able to perform John's

    example of opening a schematic for review. No matter what calamity

    befell the outside world, you will at least have the freeware abilities

    which can load large designs.

     

    Warren

     

    --

    ... use NNTP://news.cadsoft.de and a functional news reader like

    Thunderbird!

    ... or http://www.eaglecentral.ca browser access to CadSoft EAGLE

    support forums.

     

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  • Justynb
    Justynb over 8 years ago in reply to autodeskguest

    warrenbrayshaw wrote on Fri, 27 January 2017 12:59

    In  the interest of accuracy. You will always be able to perform John's

     

    example of opening a schematic for review. No matter what calamity

    befell the outside world, you will at least have the freeware abilities

     

    which can load large designs.

     

     

    I'm sorry but I don't agree. What if you have to reinstall Eagle for some

    reason, and the licensing server has changed or no longer exists.

     

    From what I understand (please correct me if I'm wrong) you cannot install

    even the freeware version without using the license server.

    --

    EAGLE support forums at http://www.eaglecentral.ca :: Where the EAGLE community meets.

     

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  • autodeskguest
    autodeskguest over 8 years ago in reply to Justynb

    On 28/01/2017 7:05 a.m., Justyn wrote:

    warrenbrayshaw wrote on Fri, 27 January 2017 12:59

    In  the interest of accuracy. You will always be able to perform John's

     

    example of opening a schematic for review. No matter what calamity

    befell the outside world, you will at least have the freeware abilities

     

    which can load large designs.

     

    I'm sorry but I don't agree. What if you have to reinstall Eagle for some

    reason, and the licensing server has changed or no longer exists.

     

    From what I understand (please correct me if I'm wrong) you cannot install

    even the freeware version without using the license server.

     

    Hi

     

    That's a good point.

     

    I would keep v7.7. available. It will likely be good for viewing new

    designs done in Autodesk Eagle, for a while at least. One would need to

    verify that.

     

    We need to understand if the Autodesk freeware version (at least) stores

    a file that can be backed up and restored with a rebuild, that does not

    require going online.

     

    Warren

     

     

     

    --

    ... use NNTP://news.cadsoft.de and a functional news reader like

    Thunderbird!

    ... or http://www.eaglecentral.ca browser access to CadSoft EAGLE

    support forums.

     

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  • Justynb
    Justynb over 8 years ago in reply to autodeskguest

    warrenbrayshaw wrote on Fri, 27 January 2017 13:23

    That's a good point.

     

    I would keep v7.7. available. It will likely be good for viewing new

    designs done in Autodesk Eagle, for a while at least. One would need to

     

    verify that.

     

     

    My guess is that already reusable design blocks will break backwards

    compatibility, perhaps you can avoid it by not using the feature.

     

    I can imagine that it won't take long for other less avoidable format

    changes to turn up, for example updates to the footprint file format.

     

    warrenbrayshaw wrote on Fri, 27 January 2017 13:23

    We need to understand if the Autodesk freeware version (at least)

    stores

    a file that can be backed up and restored with a rebuild, that does not

     

    require going online.

     

     

    I agree, a good question, although I think I'm personally moving on from

    this strategy. It is all too risky.

    --

    EAGLE support forums at http://www.eaglecentral.ca :: Where the EAGLE community meets.

     

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  • rbtx99
    rbtx99 over 8 years ago in reply to Justynb

    It is not even a question. Online activation is way too risky. I've been using EAGLE as a hobbyist since I was 17 years old and for more than 10 years as a business. There is absolutely no way I am putting my entire life's work on the hands of Autodesk. I want a license/activation key I can use on any computer I please now and any time in the future. If Autodesk can't provide someone else will.

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