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Autodesk EAGLE
EAGLE User Chat (English) Eagle v8 licensing...
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  • eagle
  • license
  • freeware
  • 8.0
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Eagle v8 licensing...

technolomaniac
technolomaniac over 9 years ago

Hi All --

 

Moving this to a separate thread so it doesn't get lost in the ether.  Here's my two cents on licensing and I'd love your feedback:

 

Firstly, the Autodesk licensing model is subscription and the EAGLE paid license will require that you install the SW and then generate an account to retrieve your license entitlement.  Once you have this, you are good to go and the SW will run as expected.  If you lose your network connection, the SW has a 14-day heartbeat that will enable you to work offline for 14 days.  I know that some folks would prefer to never have to connect, but this is required to support a monthly subscription model that can be selectively enabled and disabled when you use the SW (so you only pay when you use it).  The total cost of ownership for those folks using it less than a few weeks a year will thus be substantially lower and still enables you to access the full software for less money.  <Insert revolt here>  image

 

WRT to "what happens if autodesk decides to one day just shut off the license server?" ...ok, sure, that's possible, but so is a reality TV star becoming President of the..cough...nevermind, bad example.

 

Point is, that's a pretty remote possibility (think: time travel and alien invasions) and it wouldn't benefit us *at all* to upset the users we just spent real money hoping to bring into autodesk and earn their business.  As the guy with both development and P&L for the product, I can tell you that it's counterintuitive and wouldn't benefit us at all.  We know this.  We make SW used by governments, movie studios, game developers, MEs, Civil Engineers, machinists, etc. and you can bet that shutting down a license server is not to our benefit in any of these categories.  To demonstrate this behavior in one category, without a path for user SW and data, calls into question ALL of our tools' viability under this model.  Not helpful.

 

Now...a question was raised about "but what if I drop my subscription and I want my data".  Awesome, the data is yours and lives on your machine.  And for SW that stores data in the cloud (we have some of these) we always provide a path to your data.  If this again fails with one product, it puts all of the others up for discussion.  Again, not helpful.  (Read:  strategy = doomed).

 

"So what about needing an entitlement for the freeware to open the data I created in another version (a *paid* version) and reading it?  What if I want access and I dont want the 14-day time out?"

 

So here's the deal...We can do better here.  So we will.  Here's my commitment to the group here for freeware that ensures you always have a license that you can fall back on without need of internet connection *except when you first install it* (which after all, you would have had to get it in the first place):  in version 8.1 or 8.0.1 or whathaveyou (let's call it 'a future release'), if you install the SW and authenticate once, we'll remove the timer req.  So what I'm saying another way is, the freeware will require you to login the first time to get your license, but if you log out beyond that, you're good.  You got your entitlement and you can use it freely without connection.

 

Caveat:  to install an update, you will need to login.  The update server (which issues the new version...e.g. 8.1 or 8.2. or 8.0.1, etc.) requires that you login and get the update, but beyond that, logout.  Thus if you want to go off-grid in a mountain cabin somewhere, get your license at Starbucks (blagh! I understand they have 'free' wifi, but no frappucinos!  ...that stuff is bad for you) then get your license and go on your merry way up to the snow drenched peaks.  When you hear from the other mountaineers or your local yodeler that a new version of EAGLE is available...download, login, get your license, get your 'decaf double-pump vanilla non-fat latte macchiato' and head back up the slopes.

 

Point being, we can do the freeware better.  So we will.

 

Hope this is clear.  Let us know if you have questions!

 

Best regards,

 

Matt Berggren

Director - Autodesk

@technolomaniac

hackaday.io/matt

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  • autodeskguest
    autodeskguest over 9 years ago

    Am 18.01.2017 um 20:26 schrieb Matt Berggren:

    Now...a question was raised about "but what if I drop my subscription and I want my data".  Awesome, the data is yours and lives on your machine.

     

    But we still don't have software to edit the data that lives on our

    machines, after maybe years of payment. Fantastic!

     

     

     

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  • autodeskguest
    autodeskguest over 9 years ago in reply to autodeskguest

    But we still don't have software to edit the data that lives on our

    machines, after maybe years of payment. Fantastic!

     

    Yep. I could live with this "subscription" model, when it would look like:

     

    You pay monthly/yearly, get the license data (key/installation code) as

    it was before with the old system.

     

    For each new release while still under subsciption, you can download a

    new license key/installation code.

     

    If you at any point decide to stop the subscription you keep the latest

    installation code/key and you can stay with this last version forever

    and also reinstall whenenver necessary.

     

    No server needed, no internet connection, just an account where you can

    download the latest license file/install code.

     

    I'm not going to let any company decide how long a software is going to

    run on my computer.

     

    I bought it I own it (the license).

     

    Markus

     

     

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  • technolomaniac
    technolomaniac over 9 years ago in reply to autodeskguest

    Hi Markus -

     

    Thanks for your reply...Let me take a swing at this:

     

    • But we still don't have software to edit the data that lives on our machines, after maybe years of payment. Fantastic!

     

    Yes you do.  You have the freeware version and if you commit to the subscription version for some period of time (a month, a year), you will have all of the editing features enabled for all layers (whilst ensuring you get everything new that comes down the line like obstacle avoidance in routing, push and shove routing, better hierarchy, better design reuse, improved library editing, etc).  There's of course a quid pro quo:  just as you are subscribing to the product and betting on us, we need to be transparent about what we're adding and are incentivized or rather: obliged, to continue to deliver those capabilities which grow alongside the changing industry.  Point being, if you need to open a file, you always have the free version to fall back on.  If you need to edit, you only pay for what you need when you need it, and when you no longer need to, you can disable your subscription and save the single, monolithic price of a piece of perpetual SW.

     

    • You pay monthly/yearly, get the license data (key/installation code) as it was before with the old system.

     

    Not going to this model and I guess Im unclear just how would this model work with subscription anyway?  When it times out, you still dont have what you are trying to achieve which sounds like a perpetual license.

     

    Adobe, Microsoft, etc all use a subscription model these days, having moved away from an activation code both to protect their investment in new feature development, whilst making it easier for more people to gain access to new tools.  The fact is that the activation code model does little to ensure both the security of a license whilst incentivizing the company making the SW to continue to develop the tools (you buy it, you get what you bought...no guarantees for more, it's all based on trust whether they decide to release an 8.1, 8.2, 8.3, etc). 

     

    We can scale development with honest revenues and the easiest way to achieve that is to make it easier for a user to get software and pay for it.  A single, monolithic price of $1650 is out of reach of many people with a commercial product vision, and having already enabled a 6-layer license for education for free, we can expect that this too is another way to get EAGLE into the hands of more people at a lower price point.  An example: if you look at a $500 / yr sub across the avg 3 year release cycle, the product cost came down $150...if you paid monthly and spend 6 months designing and 6 months going to market, then you end up with an even lower total cost of ownership!

     

         For each new release while still under subscription, you can download a

         new license key/installation code.

     

         If you at any point decide to stop the subscription you keep the latest

         installation code/key and you can stay with this last version forever

         and also reinstall whenenver necessary.

     

    And if you were on Monthly?  If you were on yearly?  Seems you are conflating the two models or maybe I'm unclear.

     

         No server needed, no internet connection, just an account where you can

         download the latest license file/install code.

     

         I'm not going to let any company decide how long a software is going to

         run on my computer.

     

    In fact, that is precisely what you get with this model; it is more licensing flexibility rather than less.  Sure, you have to sign in.  But you never lose your right to view data.

     

    Hope that is clear!

     

    Best regards,

     

    Matt

    Autodesk.

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  • rbtx99
    rbtx99 over 9 years ago in reply to brentbolton

    Forgotten in this discussion about license models is the perspective that we as users have put a lot of effort into developing expertise using EagleCAD. And for many of us, our livelihood is dependent on that expertise. With your subscription model you have, in effect, take that expertise hostage,

     

    Exactly. If EAGLE 8 was totally free but needed to connect every two weeks to activate I would still not use it. If Autodesk paid me $500 a year... I would still not use it. If they ever realise that they may have a successful business.

     

    As for the effort on developing expertise... it is not a big deal as one may think. I was hesitant changing to another brand of microcomputers and it was a few months of pain to get back to speed but now it is all past me and I look back and I blame myself for not doing it sooner. Jumping ship from EAGLE for me is now certainty. The only question is what to jump to that is best for my needs.

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  • brentbolton
    brentbolton over 9 years ago in reply to technolomaniac

    Hi Matt,

     

    Forgotten in this discussion about license models is the perspective that we as users have put a lot of effort into developing expertise using EagleCAD. And for many of us, our livelihood is dependent on that expertise. With your subscription model you have, in effect, take that expertise hostage, I .e. pay up or your knowledge is now worthless. To me, this represents a breach of trust between Autodesk and the EagleCAD user community and indicates a company that is more concerned with itself than with its customers. I went through this once before when OrCAD was purchased by Cadence and so I am perhaps hyper-sensitized. I used EagleCAD precisely because it was not a product of a big faceless CAD vendor that could care less about my tiny contribution to their bottom line. My inclination now is to cut my losses and go with an open source package like KiCAD so that I never have to go through this again. Whatever I do, rest assured that unless Autodesk changes course and offers an affordable perpetual license option my days of using EagleCAD are numbered.

     

    Sincerely,

    Brent Bolton

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  • autodeskguest
    autodeskguest over 9 years ago in reply to technolomaniac

    Matt Berggren schrieb:

     

    Adobe, Microsoft, etc all use a subscription model these days

    Their subscription models are definitely keeping me from ever using that

    software.

     

    Just because others are doing it wrong, it's not the right way.

     

    Tilmann

     

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  • autodeskguest
    autodeskguest over 9 years ago in reply to technolomaniac

    Matt Berggren schrieb:

     

    Adobe, Microsoft, etc all use a subscription model these days

    Their subscription models are definitely keeping me from ever using that

    software.

     

    Just because others are doing it wrong, it's not the right way.

     

    Tilmann

     

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