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EAGLE User Chat (English) Eagle v8 licensing...
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  • eagle
  • license
  • freeware
  • 8.0
Related

Eagle v8 licensing...

technolomaniac
technolomaniac over 8 years ago

Hi All --

 

Moving this to a separate thread so it doesn't get lost in the ether.  Here's my two cents on licensing and I'd love your feedback:

 

Firstly, the Autodesk licensing model is subscription and the EAGLE paid license will require that you install the SW and then generate an account to retrieve your license entitlement.  Once you have this, you are good to go and the SW will run as expected.  If you lose your network connection, the SW has a 14-day heartbeat that will enable you to work offline for 14 days.  I know that some folks would prefer to never have to connect, but this is required to support a monthly subscription model that can be selectively enabled and disabled when you use the SW (so you only pay when you use it).  The total cost of ownership for those folks using it less than a few weeks a year will thus be substantially lower and still enables you to access the full software for less money.  <Insert revolt here>  image

 

WRT to "what happens if autodesk decides to one day just shut off the license server?" ...ok, sure, that's possible, but so is a reality TV star becoming President of the..cough...nevermind, bad example.

 

Point is, that's a pretty remote possibility (think: time travel and alien invasions) and it wouldn't benefit us *at all* to upset the users we just spent real money hoping to bring into autodesk and earn their business.  As the guy with both development and P&L for the product, I can tell you that it's counterintuitive and wouldn't benefit us at all.  We know this.  We make SW used by governments, movie studios, game developers, MEs, Civil Engineers, machinists, etc. and you can bet that shutting down a license server is not to our benefit in any of these categories.  To demonstrate this behavior in one category, without a path for user SW and data, calls into question ALL of our tools' viability under this model.  Not helpful.

 

Now...a question was raised about "but what if I drop my subscription and I want my data".  Awesome, the data is yours and lives on your machine.  And for SW that stores data in the cloud (we have some of these) we always provide a path to your data.  If this again fails with one product, it puts all of the others up for discussion.  Again, not helpful.  (Read:  strategy = doomed).

 

"So what about needing an entitlement for the freeware to open the data I created in another version (a *paid* version) and reading it?  What if I want access and I dont want the 14-day time out?"

 

So here's the deal...We can do better here.  So we will.  Here's my commitment to the group here for freeware that ensures you always have a license that you can fall back on without need of internet connection *except when you first install it* (which after all, you would have had to get it in the first place):  in version 8.1 or 8.0.1 or whathaveyou (let's call it 'a future release'), if you install the SW and authenticate once, we'll remove the timer req.  So what I'm saying another way is, the freeware will require you to login the first time to get your license, but if you log out beyond that, you're good.  You got your entitlement and you can use it freely without connection.

 

Caveat:  to install an update, you will need to login.  The update server (which issues the new version...e.g. 8.1 or 8.2. or 8.0.1, etc.) requires that you login and get the update, but beyond that, logout.  Thus if you want to go off-grid in a mountain cabin somewhere, get your license at Starbucks (blagh! I understand they have 'free' wifi, but no frappucinos!  ...that stuff is bad for you) then get your license and go on your merry way up to the snow drenched peaks.  When you hear from the other mountaineers or your local yodeler that a new version of EAGLE is available...download, login, get your license, get your 'decaf double-pump vanilla non-fat latte macchiato' and head back up the slopes.

 

Point being, we can do the freeware better.  So we will.

 

Hope this is clear.  Let us know if you have questions!

 

Best regards,

 

Matt Berggren

Director - Autodesk

@technolomaniac

hackaday.io/matt

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Top Replies

  • COMPACT
    COMPACT over 8 years ago in reply to autodeskguest +4
    Not to worry, it's back to the Drawing board for me.
  • shabaz
    shabaz over 8 years ago +3
    Hi Matt, When will the EAGLE Maker version (or another solution for hobbiests) be v8-ready? I see the subscription for 'EAGLE Standard' and 'EAGLE Premium' are now available on the website, but not EAGLE…
  • albertovignati
    albertovignati over 8 years ago in reply to techsupport +3
    Il 21/02/2017 22:54, Ed Robledo ha scritto: The customers are the sole driving force to the improvements to EAGLE. Some of these 'wants' take time to be done right, that's the reason they were not done…
Parents
  • rachaelp
    rachaelp over 8 years ago

    Hi Matt,

     

    I already had my most pressing concern answered to my satisfaction by Jorge which was relating to still being able to run EAGLE on multiple machines as I need to run it up across at least 3 different machines in my lab, but it seems I can still do that so all is good there.

     

    If I was pressed on the subscription issue, I would say that I do much prefer to just buy the software outright, but if subscription is the only way from now on then so be it, I will deal. Having to activate the license with an Autodesk account isn't really something that will often be an issue for me as my machines are always on the internet but I can see why others my find this more problematic. I do understand why you are changing it, but I think it's a very sensitive subject for a lot of people though because of the debacle with the licensing when v7 was first released, so any changes in this area are going to come under a lot of scrutiny from the loyal EAGLE user base who stuck with CadSoft previously. I do wonder if it would be possible to satisfy the need for a permanent license which doesn't expire within your new licensing system though? How about the following as licensing options?

     

    1) Free license. Activate initially and lasts forever. Upgrading to new versions would simply require a one time server activation each time they upgraded.

     

    2) Monthly license. Activate at start of month. Software will run for 1 calendar month and then attempt to re-activate with the server. Autodesk account could be set up to either auto renew or a one off payment requiring a new purchase, this would ensure people didn't buy another month without realising they would be doing so, or forgetting to cancel a direct debit. This is one of my issues with monthly subscription software, it's easy to forget to cancel the subscription and that can be annoying. Upgrades to new versions will be accessible so long as a valid subscription still exists and as per free would require activating with the server.

     

    3) 1/2/3 Year licenses. As per monthly but for longer periods of time. Full access to any upgrades within this period as per the monthly license. At the end of the 1/2/3 year period it could be possible to offer to either a) take out another subscription, b) cancel any direct debits (if a one was set up) and discontinue use, or c) Make an additional payment to convert the longer term fixed period licenses to permanent licenses so people could continue at their current version (or versions within the same release version) indefinitely. See below.

     

    4) Permanent license. This would require activation once at initial setup and then run forever. Upgrades would be available within the same version, so if it were a v8 subscription then upgrades would be available for all v8 release versions. Updates would require activation as per the other licenses. The software must be accessible for download and installation and activation indefinitely to support peoples use of their permanent license. Updates to the next version e.g. v9 would be offered at an upgrade cost rather than the full cost, just like happens at the moment.

     

    I think all of these could be covered by the Autodesk licensing system, hopefully without too much difficulty and without conflicting with the objectives of Autodesk, and I think they might satisfy most of what people would require. I don't think you'd have to have a strange hybrid of the old and new licensing systems within the one piece of software....

     

    Best Regards,


    Rachael

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  • Joop14
    Joop14 over 8 years ago in reply to rachaelp

    rachaelp wrote on Thu, 19 January 2017 11:07

    4) Permanent license. This would require activation once at initial

    setup and then run forever. Upgrades would be available within the same

    version, so if it were a v8 subscription then upgrades would be available

    for all v8 release versions. Updates would require activation as per the

    other licenses. The software must be accessible for download and

    installation and activation indefinitely to support peoples use of their

    permanent license. Updates to the next version e.g. v9 would be offered

    at an upgrade cost rather than the full cost, just like happens at the

    moment.

     

     

    Not acceptable. The permanent license must work the same way like in older

    versions.

    No need to activate again when you replace your computer.

    What if they pull the plug from the activation server?

     

    The old license system has been working fine for many years. There's

    absolutely NO REASON

    to change that. Anti-piracy motives are a joke. We will see how fast a

    pirated & patched copy will

    appear on the internet/torrents.

    As usual, the need for internet connection will bother legitimate users but

    will not stop piracy.

     

     

    --

    http://www.eaglecentral.ca :: The original and best browser access to CadSoft EAGLE support forums.  Supported by EAGLE licenses purchased through us :: http://www.eaglelicenses.com

     

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  • autodeskguest
    autodeskguest over 8 years ago in reply to Joop14

    On 19.01.2017 11:58, Joop wrote:

    The old license system has been working fine for many years. There's

    absolutely NO REASON

    to change that. Anti-piracy motives are a joke. We will see how fast a

    pirated & patched copy will

    appear on the internet/torrents.

    As usual, the need for internet connection will bother legitimate users but

    will not stop piracy.

     

    That is 100% my opinion as well.

     

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  • autodeskguest
    autodeskguest over 8 years ago in reply to rachaelp

    On 19.01.2017 12:11, rachaelp wrote:

     

    I don't think it's all about anti piracy, it might be in part, but as you say no matter what you do somebody will manage to circumvent the licensing and pirate versions will become available. I think it's more about being able to offer the monthly subscription, with helps with lowering the bar to getting a paid copy of EAGLE, making it more accessible to more people, plus it evens out the revenue stream a little as rather than a large spike when a new version comes out followed by lower one off purchases, there will be a more constant income from monthly purchasers. That's probably not a significant issue for Autodesk as their revenues are huge across the whole business. I think it's more about making it more accessible. To me there isn't anything sinister about what they have done, I just wish / hope there can be some alterations to make it suit all users a little better.

     

    It can be implemented both. Installer asks for licensekey/installcode,

    if it gets one, everything works as before.

     

    If not, work as Viewer with a login option to activate the subscribable

    features.

     

    I don't see why this should not be possible to combine both worlds.

     

    Markus

     

     

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  • autodeskguest
    autodeskguest over 8 years ago in reply to rachaelp

    On 19.01.2017 14:54, rachaelp wrote:

    Yes that's a valid point but I think Nokia and Blackberry were in a completely different situation to Autodesk.

     

    That doesn't matter. Fact is: it could happen. The remote possibility is

    enough.

     

    Markus

     

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  • rachaelp
    rachaelp over 8 years ago in reply to autodeskguest

    Markus Rudolf wrote on Thu, 19 January 2017 14:38

    It can be implemented both. Installer asks for licensekey/installcode,

     

    if it gets one, everything works as before.

     

    If not, work as Viewer with a login option to activate the subscribable

     

    features.

     

    I don't see why this should not be possible to combine both worlds.

     

    Markus

     

     

    It's definitely possible, but whether they will entertain having two

    separate licensing systems within the software is another thing entirely.

    It might lead to unforeseen issues.

    --

    http://www.eaglecentral.ca :: The original and best browser access to CadSoft EAGLE support forums.  Supported by EAGLE licenses purchased through us :: http://www.eaglelicenses.com

     

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  • rachaelp
    rachaelp over 8 years ago in reply to autodeskguest

    Markus Rudolf wrote on Thu, 19 January 2017 14:40

    On 19.01.2017 14:54, rachaelp wrote:

    Yes that's a valid point but I think Nokia and Blackberry were in

    a completely different situation to Autodesk.

     

    That doesn't matter. Fact is: it could happen. The remote possibility

    is

    enough.

     

    Markus

     

     

    Lots of bad things could happen in life, some with very small probability.

    If we worried about every single remote possibility of something going

    wrong we would have very restrictive lives with all the precautions we'd be

    having to take to avoid every remote possibility of danger. Life is too

    short to worry about this sort of thing too much.

    --

    http://www.eaglecentral.ca :: The original and best browser access to CadSoft EAGLE support forums.  Supported by EAGLE licenses purchased through us :: http://www.eaglelicenses.com

     

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  • autodeskguest
    autodeskguest over 8 years ago in reply to rachaelp

    Rachael schrieb:

     

    It's definitely possible, but whether they will entertain having two

    separate licensing systems within the software is another thing entirely.

    It might lead to unforeseen issues.

     

    Not supporting that might also lead to issues - foreseen, however: many

    people won't subscribe and move on to other software.

     

    It doesn't make any sense to try to force users into a subscription

    model if they don't want that. In fact, I would rather switch to a

    completely different CAD than "upgrade" to a subscription license.

     

    It's all that easy: if there are no permanent offline licenses any more,

    many will leave - or simply continue to use their existing licenses.

    It's up to Autodesk to judge if that counts for them (and/or if

    eventually new customers who subscribe are able to compensate for that).

     

    Tilmann

     

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  • techsupport
    techsupport over 8 years ago in reply to autodeskguest

    On 01/19/2017 09:18 AM, Markus Rudolf wrote:

    On 19.01.2017 11:58, Joop wrote:

    The old license system has been working fine for many years. There's

    absolutely NO REASON

    to change that. Anti-piracy motives are a joke. We will see how fast a

    pirated & patched copy will

    appear on the internet/torrents.

    As usual, the need for internet connection will bother legitimate

    users but

    will not stop piracy.

     

    That is 100% my opinion as well.

     

    Hi Markus,

    With my limited exposure to the transition to Autodesk, piracy was not

    really a factor considered for implementing a subscription model into

    EAGLE.  As stated earlier, it was about making the product assessable,

    flexible and affordable.

    Best Regards,

    Ed

    Edwin.robledo@autodesk.com

     

     

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  • autodeskguest
    autodeskguest over 8 years ago in reply to techsupport

    On 19.01.2017 16:11, Ed wrote:

     

    Hi Markus,

    With my limited exposure to the transition to Autodesk, piracy was not

    really a factor considered for implementing a subscription model into

    EAGLE.  As stated earlier, it was about making the product assessable,

    flexible and affordable.

    Best Regards,

    Ed

    Edwin.robledo@autodesk.com

     

    The emphasis was more on the

     

    >>> The old license system has been working fine for many years. There's

    >>> absolutely NO REASON

    >>> to change that.

     

    part....

     

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  • techsupport
    techsupport over 8 years ago in reply to autodeskguest

    On 01/19/2017 10:30 AM, Markus Rudolf wrote:

    On 19.01.2017 16:11, Ed wrote:

     

    Hi Markus,

    With my limited exposure to the transition to Autodesk, piracy was not

    really a factor considered for implementing a subscription model into

    EAGLE.  As stated earlier, it was about making the product assessable,

    flexible and affordable.

    Best Regards,

    Ed

    Edwin.robledo@autodesk.com

     

    The emphasis was more on the

     

    The old license system has been working fine for many years. There's

    absolutely NO REASON

    to change that.

     

    part....

     

    Hi Markus,

    I have been blessed to be part of the EAGLE support team for a very long

    time. I am confident to state that we would get anywhere between 20 to

    40 request of existing users asking to get access to their license

    because they have misplaced their key or no longer have their

    installation code. Every time we had an update, the request might reach

    hundreds every day. Many voiced frustration because they intended to

    work during the weekend but couldn't validate their registration.

    This new model now gives the user access to their software without

    requiring pairing up a file and installation code.

    Best Regards,

    Ed

    edwin.robledo@autodesk.com

     

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  • autodeskguest
    autodeskguest over 8 years ago in reply to techsupport

    On 19.01.2017 16:55, Ed wrote:

     

    Hi Markus,

    I have been blessed to be part of the EAGLE support team for a very long

    time. I am confident to state that we would get anywhere between 20 to

    40 request of existing users asking to get access to their license

    because they have misplaced their key or no longer have their

    installation code. Every time we had an update, the request might reach

    hundreds every day. Many voiced frustration because they intended to

    work during the weekend but couldn't validate their registration.

     

    Yeah well you can charge them fees for looking up their code if they

    messed it up. Would be fair enough.

     

    Nice extra revenue image

     

    I never lost any code in the last 15 years and don't plan to do so.

     

     

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Reply
  • autodeskguest
    autodeskguest over 8 years ago in reply to techsupport

    On 19.01.2017 16:55, Ed wrote:

     

    Hi Markus,

    I have been blessed to be part of the EAGLE support team for a very long

    time. I am confident to state that we would get anywhere between 20 to

    40 request of existing users asking to get access to their license

    because they have misplaced their key or no longer have their

    installation code. Every time we had an update, the request might reach

    hundreds every day. Many voiced frustration because they intended to

    work during the weekend but couldn't validate their registration.

     

    Yeah well you can charge them fees for looking up their code if they

    messed it up. Would be fair enough.

     

    Nice extra revenue image

     

    I never lost any code in the last 15 years and don't plan to do so.

     

     

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Children
  • autodeskguest
    autodeskguest over 8 years ago in reply to autodeskguest

    Markus Rudolf wrote on Thu, 19 January 2017 16:48

    On 19.01.2017 16:55, Ed wrote:

     

    Hi Markus,

    I have been blessed to be part of the EAGLE support team for a

    very long

    time. I am confident to state that we would get anywhere between

    20 to

    40 request of existing users asking to get access to their

    license

    because they have misplaced their key or no longer have their

    installation code. Every time we had an update, the request might

    reach

    hundreds every day. Many voiced frustration because they intended

    to

    work during the weekend but couldn't validate their registration.

     

    Yeah well you can charge them fees for looking up their code if they

    messed it up. Would be fair enough.

     

    Nice extra revenue image

     

    I never lost any code in the last 15 years and don't plan to do so.

     

     

    Nor have I as a user.

     

    As a distributor I started a policy about 2 years ago to charge $25 to

    replace lost licenses, it was very clear in the email sent out with license

    info.  After that, no one complained and I only had one customer who needed

    to use it--and he apologized for the extra work he caused us.

     

    Cheers,

     

    James.

     

    --

    James Morrison  ~~~  Stratford Digital

    http://www.stratforddigital.ca

    --

    http://www.eaglecentral.ca :: The original and best browser access to CadSoft EAGLE support forums.  Supported by EAGLE licenses purchased through us :: http://www.eaglelicenses.com

     

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  • Justynb
    Justynb over 8 years ago in reply to autodeskguest

    Markus Rudolf wrote on Thu, 19 January 2017 11:48

    On 19.01.2017 16:55, Ed wrote:

     

    Hi Markus,

    I have been blessed to be part of the EAGLE support team for a

    very long

    time. I am confident to state that we would get anywhere between

    20 to

    40 request of existing users asking to get access to their

    license

    because they have misplaced their key or no longer have their

    installation code. Every time we had an update, the request might

    reach

    hundreds every day. Many voiced frustration because they intended

    to

    work during the weekend but couldn't validate their registration.

     

    Yeah well you can charge them fees for looking up their code if they

    messed it up. Would be fair enough.

     

    Nice extra revenue image

     

    I never lost any code in the last 15 years and don't plan to do so.

     

     

    Alternatively since every purchaser from now on is inevitably going to need

    an Autodesk account, just a link to download their key from their account

    page on the site. Then it is up to them whether they keep it safe or not.

     

    Sounds like a pretty simple solution to me.

    --

    http://www.eaglecentral.ca :: The original and best browser access to CadSoft EAGLE support forums.  Supported by EAGLE licenses purchased through us :: http://www.eaglelicenses.com

     

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