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Autodesk EAGLE
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Autodesk EAGLE
EAGLE User Chat (English) Eagle v8 licensing...
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  • eagle
  • license
  • freeware
  • 8.0
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Eagle v8 licensing...

technolomaniac
technolomaniac over 9 years ago

Hi All --

 

Moving this to a separate thread so it doesn't get lost in the ether.  Here's my two cents on licensing and I'd love your feedback:

 

Firstly, the Autodesk licensing model is subscription and the EAGLE paid license will require that you install the SW and then generate an account to retrieve your license entitlement.  Once you have this, you are good to go and the SW will run as expected.  If you lose your network connection, the SW has a 14-day heartbeat that will enable you to work offline for 14 days.  I know that some folks would prefer to never have to connect, but this is required to support a monthly subscription model that can be selectively enabled and disabled when you use the SW (so you only pay when you use it).  The total cost of ownership for those folks using it less than a few weeks a year will thus be substantially lower and still enables you to access the full software for less money.  <Insert revolt here>  image

 

WRT to "what happens if autodesk decides to one day just shut off the license server?" ...ok, sure, that's possible, but so is a reality TV star becoming President of the..cough...nevermind, bad example.

 

Point is, that's a pretty remote possibility (think: time travel and alien invasions) and it wouldn't benefit us *at all* to upset the users we just spent real money hoping to bring into autodesk and earn their business.  As the guy with both development and P&L for the product, I can tell you that it's counterintuitive and wouldn't benefit us at all.  We know this.  We make SW used by governments, movie studios, game developers, MEs, Civil Engineers, machinists, etc. and you can bet that shutting down a license server is not to our benefit in any of these categories.  To demonstrate this behavior in one category, without a path for user SW and data, calls into question ALL of our tools' viability under this model.  Not helpful.

 

Now...a question was raised about "but what if I drop my subscription and I want my data".  Awesome, the data is yours and lives on your machine.  And for SW that stores data in the cloud (we have some of these) we always provide a path to your data.  If this again fails with one product, it puts all of the others up for discussion.  Again, not helpful.  (Read:  strategy = doomed).

 

"So what about needing an entitlement for the freeware to open the data I created in another version (a *paid* version) and reading it?  What if I want access and I dont want the 14-day time out?"

 

So here's the deal...We can do better here.  So we will.  Here's my commitment to the group here for freeware that ensures you always have a license that you can fall back on without need of internet connection *except when you first install it* (which after all, you would have had to get it in the first place):  in version 8.1 or 8.0.1 or whathaveyou (let's call it 'a future release'), if you install the SW and authenticate once, we'll remove the timer req.  So what I'm saying another way is, the freeware will require you to login the first time to get your license, but if you log out beyond that, you're good.  You got your entitlement and you can use it freely without connection.

 

Caveat:  to install an update, you will need to login.  The update server (which issues the new version...e.g. 8.1 or 8.2. or 8.0.1, etc.) requires that you login and get the update, but beyond that, logout.  Thus if you want to go off-grid in a mountain cabin somewhere, get your license at Starbucks (blagh! I understand they have 'free' wifi, but no frappucinos!  ...that stuff is bad for you) then get your license and go on your merry way up to the snow drenched peaks.  When you hear from the other mountaineers or your local yodeler that a new version of EAGLE is available...download, login, get your license, get your 'decaf double-pump vanilla non-fat latte macchiato' and head back up the slopes.

 

Point being, we can do the freeware better.  So we will.

 

Hope this is clear.  Let us know if you have questions!

 

Best regards,

 

Matt Berggren

Director - Autodesk

@technolomaniac

hackaday.io/matt

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  • e14candies
    e14candies over 9 years ago

    posted :  Actually if I were to choose I would much prefer the old license

    model, but it is not going to happen

     

    Why would it not happen?  What would prevent it?  Autodesk is giving upon

    Eagle business already?? I'm not sure what the difficulty Autodesk has in

    reverting to the standard Eagle license.  They can still offer a

    subscription.

     

    This should probably be moved up the chain of command at Autodesk or its

    board members--if they hear that many many customers are getting more &

    more upset with Autodesk products, hindered development and not listening

    to customers, then they may be inclined to listen more attentively.

     

    There are many EDA news boards out there and the facts of how Eagle

    customers are being treated can be posted there as well.  They may want to

    consider what is happening with Eagle when evaluating it.

     

    --

    EAGLE support forums at http://www.eaglecentral.ca :: Where the EAGLE community meets.

     

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  • autodeskguest
    autodeskguest over 9 years ago in reply to e14candies

    On 2/22/2017 7:46 PM, Hoyt wrote:

    posted :  Actually if I were to choose I would much prefer the old license

    model, but it is not going to happen

    Why would it not happen?  What would prevent it?  Autodesk is giving upon

    Eagle business already?? I'm not sure what the difficulty Autodesk has in

    reverting to the standard Eagle license.  They can still offer a

    subscription.

     

    Hello Hoyt,

     

    I hope you're having a good day. Autodesk is not giving up on EAGLE at

    all, that's why so much work . However Autodesk has almost 3 million

    subscribers of their software, so they have demonstrated that the model

    works and that there are a lot of customers who like the model.

     

    In order for Autodesk to back off of this subscription for

    everything(Every Autodesk product has moved to subscription for new

    licenses) model a substantial portion of those 3 million subscribers

    would have to drop out.

     

    So your reasoning while sound doesn't take into account that Autodesk is

    much larger than just EAGLE and it's extremely unlikely that they would

    make an exception just for us. It's not about a technical challenge,

    it's about Autodesk wanting a uniform model across all of it's products.

     

    That's why in this and in other forums, I've been informing users not to

    expect a change in the licensing model. This isn't Farnell, Autodesk is

    a software company and they have carefully calculated what they are

    getting into by making this switch.

     

    I hope this clarifies the situation.

     

    Let me know if there's anything else I can do for you.

     

    Best Regards,

    Jorge Garcia

     

    --

    We have a new forum here <http://forums.autodesk.com>

     

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  • brentbolton
    brentbolton over 9 years ago in reply to autodeskguest

    Hi Jorge,

     

    "So your reasoning while sound doesn't take into account that Autodesk is

    much larger than just EAGLE and it's extremely unlikely that they would

    make an exception just for us. It's not about a technical challenge,

    it's about Autodesk wanting a uniform model across all of it's products."

     

    Thank you for confirming what I and many others on this forum suspected. The new license model is all about what's best for Autodesk, not what's best for us users. That comes across as a giant F*** You to this formerly loyal EagleCAD user. KiCAD, Altium, here I come.

     

    Brent

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  • drkirkby
    drkirkby over 9 years ago in reply to autodeskguest

    CadSoft Guest wrote:


    One of the nice things about the EAGLE file format (since version 6 at

    least) is that it is easy to read. I've already written a program that

    opens an EAGLE file, reads it and can parse the XML. (I even posted a

    couple of my early experiments

    http://www.eaglecentral.ca/index.php/m/156145/6f8dbdb16391f7c28db5b12f3dbae997/?srch=python#msg_156145.)

    If anything happens to EAGLE or Autodesk, we'll still be able to access

    our EAGLE files, if only to convert them to some other package.

    --

    EAGLE support forums at http://www.eaglecentral.ca :: Where the EAGLE community meets.

     

    Yes, that's a valid point. I see there are a number of Eagle to $other_PCB_package around, but all seem to have some issues, and not do a perfect translation.

     

    I've met this problem many times with other software. Mathematica had some significant changes in version 6, and had a converter to convert files from versions 5 or lower to version 6. In practice it was only partially successful. It would be nice if OpenOffice was 100% compatible with Word files, but in practice it is not.

     

    Dave

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  • albertovignati
    albertovignati over 9 years ago in reply to techsupport

    Hi Ed,

     

    Brent talks about risks (I totally agree with him) and you answer about

    costs. On the economic side you are saying to pay for use an old version

    to maintain old projects, right? This is another reason for which

    subscription model is absolutely inacceptable!

    On the economic side, if V8 were perpetual I would just upgraded, even

    at the full price... But it seems that you do not want my money and

    prefere to make me angry.

    I am sure you understand perfectly our reason, I can imagine your

    position, but you have to do your job. I (We) will fight for a while,

    maybe something changes, but one day I (we) will have to take a decision

    and, if nothing change, this means to leave Eagle. At the moment I am

    using Eagle only for maintenance or little projects, as a big project

    will start I will move to other tools; at that point no way to come

    back. It is a pity, since I am a long term user and I have not other

    reason to change except license model.

     

    Best regards

     

    Alberto

     

    Il 24/02/2017 16:49, Ed Robledo ha scritto:

    Hi Brent,

    'snip

    What I am worried about is my business being held hostage by Autodesk. For example, I have a many projects that I've done sitting "in the can" in case a customer comes back and wants some variant of one. Say, a few years from now there's some fantastic new CAD package that all my new customers are demanding. I switch to that and now I only need Eagle for that legacy work occasionally. But now I've got to keep paying Autodesk for their continuing improvements that I will never need. Further, the phone home to a server every 2 weeks feature gives me the willies. I don't want to have to depend on the existence of any computer other than my own when my income is riding on it working. Sorry, but your business model carries too much risk for my taste, so as I've said many times, no thanks.

     

    Brent

    With the current model, you don't have to be paying continuously, during your idle times you can use the free version as a viewer.  If you need to do some legacy work, then enable your license entitlement for the necessary time.  If you want the latest tools you can download and install, if you don't want the new tools continue working with whatever version you have.  Updates are not pushed, the user is only informed about them.  If you do download load them they will install into new folder, not affecting any previous versions installs.

     

    TMI:  "I have a many projects that I've done sitting "in the can"

     

    Best Regards,

    Ed

    EAGLE Forums (https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/eagle-forum/bd-p/3500http://)

     

    --

    To view any images and attachments in this post, visit:

    https://www.element14.com/community/message/216737

     

     

     

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  • techsupport
    techsupport over 9 years ago in reply to brentbolton

    Hi Brent,

    'snip

    What I am worried about is my business being held hostage by Autodesk. For example, I have a many projects that I've done sitting "in the can" in case a customer comes back and wants some variant of one. Say, a few years from now there's some fantastic new CAD package that all my new customers are demanding. I switch to that and now I only need Eagle for that legacy work occasionally. But now I've got to keep paying Autodesk for their continuing improvements that I will never need. Further, the phone home to a server every 2 weeks feature gives me the willies. I don't want to have to depend on the existence of any computer other than my own when my income is riding on it working. Sorry, but your business model carries too much risk for my taste, so as I've said many times, no thanks.

     

    Brent

    With the current model, you don't have to be paying continuously, during your idle times you can use the free version as a viewer.  If you need to do some legacy work, then enable your license entitlement for the necessary time.  If you want the latest tools you can download and install, if you don't want the new tools continue working with whatever version you have.  Updates are not pushed, the user is only informed about them.  If you do download load them they will install into new folder, not affecting any previous versions installs.

     

    TMI:  "I have a many projects that I've done sitting "in the can"

     

    Best Regards,

    Ed

    EAGLE Forums

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  • brentbolton
    brentbolton over 9 years ago in reply to Jan Cumps

    Jan,

     

    No the customers didn't dictate our pricing. In the semiconductor industry price constantly declines while capability increases. And no company will shut down your chip after 3 years if you didn't keep paying up. And little of our business was due to product wearing out. It was almost all voluntary upgrades or new purchases because we constantly improved our value proposition.

     

    This will be my last post beating the dead Autodesk horse. I've got to go do some design work with v7.5 and think about who my next CAD vendor will be. Nice debating you all and best wishes to you whatever you decide.


    Brent

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  • brentbolton
    brentbolton over 9 years ago in reply to Jan Cumps

    Jan,

     

    No the customers didn't dictate our pricing. In the semiconductor industry price constantly declines while capability increases. And no company will shut down your chip after 3 years if you didn't keep paying up. And little of our business was due to product wearing out. It was almost all voluntary upgrades or new purchases because we constantly improved our value proposition.

     

    This will be my last post beating the dead Autodesk horse. I've got to go do some design work with v7.5 and think about who my next CAD vendor will be. Nice debating you all and best wishes to you whatever you decide.


    Brent

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