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EAGLE License Recommendat ion

autodeskguest

Hello Autodesk (specifically Matt),

 

In your last post about the path forward for EAGLE Make licenses, you

maintain that a "Paid" license (i.e. one that you are paying a subscription

for) will only function for 14 days without an internet connection.

 

I think that Autodesk has underestimated how much of an issue this will be,

especially for professional design houses.  These design houses are

important as they support, and encourage, EAGLE to be used in a

professional manner.  The recommendation from a design house to new

companies/clients go a long way to creating new customers for EAGLE (I know

Stratford Digital has influenced many companies to get an EAGLE license

because that is what we recommended, Olin has stated the same for his

company).

 

I think the main issue is that we professionals need our current version of

EAGLE to run forever.  But I think there is a path forward with a small

tweak.  I would love it if Matt could respond to this suggestion:

 

EAGLE License Recommendation

 

No one has an issue with requiring the internet on installation or

upgrading of EAGLE.  If a subscription is valid then either of these is

allowed.  If the subscription is not valid or can't be verified (i.e. no

internet connection) then neither is allowed BUT the software continues to

work indefinitely as it did at the time of the last call home to Autodesk

license server.

 

This means there is still a reason to pay subscription cost:

active support access to new features with new versions

 

This allows for the support that professionals will need to be able to

prove can be provided decades down the road (it happens all the time). It

allows me to create a virtual machine with a specific version of EAGLE on

it and know that in the future that software will work as it did during the

initial project development.  It also allows for use in walled-off security

environments.

 

We also need a method (officially supported) of having multiple versions of

EAGLE on the same computer at the same time with the ability to configure

each install to update or not automatically.  This is absolutely required

as some clients, for various reasons, specify specific versions of EAGLE to

be used.

 

This also puts a burden on Autodesk to make sure that their updates are

significant enough to warrant people continuing subscriptions.  That is a

good thing and will give users some confidence that a subscription is worth

it.  The value of any change since v6.6 is pretty limited, hierarchical

design is a good idea but not fully implemented.  And we're still waiting

on completion of the differential pair routing from v6.  It seems the main

additions since v6.6 is two, unasked for and highly restrictive licensing

changes.  So there isn't a lot of trust in the EAGLE community right now.

Autodesk has said good things but little has been delivered yet.

 

I think the above is a good compromise.  If Matt doesn't agree then please

provide your suggestion as how I am going to be guaranteed to be able to

support projects a decade in the future.  For this argument, "trusting

Autodesk will allow it" will not be accepted as an allowable answer.  It

may be 100% true today but when you leave to retire in the Bahamas or the

entire team is sold off to another global corp the policy can instantly

change (see last 6 months).

 

Cheers,

 

James

--

James Morrison  ~~~  Stratford Digital

http://www.stratforddigital.ca

--

EAGLE support forums at http://www.eaglecentral.ca :: Where the EAGLE community meets.

 

Parents

  • Matt

     

    Thank you for your post, helping to explain some of the thoughts going on at Autodesk right now.

    I have a primary job, where my employer uses Altium, and I use that for most of the design work that I do.   I also do some work on the side for a small business, and we have used Eagle for several years.   For a long time, I had the licence that allowed me to work on 4 layer, 6x4 boards, but occasionally I need to work on larger boards (but never more than 4 layers).   In December 2016 I  bought the full version of Eagle, so I have the perpetual license for the Pro version.  The next month, everything changed.

     

    I am excited about the concept of having an integrated MECHANICAL/Electrical CAD system, and I hope that this becomes a reality.   It would make the increased cost of the system worthwhile.  

     

    If I understand the proposed licensing scheme, I will be able to subscribe to the smaller system for 4x6 boards, and use that, and if I need to work on a larger board, I rent the professional version for the duration of that job - 2 or 3 months, then go back to the lower cost licence.   So long as 10 years down the road I will be able to view the files, generate gerbers and drill files etc, I think that I can live with that.

     

    That said, I don't think that I will jump into V8 until the dust has settled - perhaps a couple of years.

     

    Mark

Reply

  • Matt

     

    Thank you for your post, helping to explain some of the thoughts going on at Autodesk right now.

    I have a primary job, where my employer uses Altium, and I use that for most of the design work that I do.   I also do some work on the side for a small business, and we have used Eagle for several years.   For a long time, I had the licence that allowed me to work on 4 layer, 6x4 boards, but occasionally I need to work on larger boards (but never more than 4 layers).   In December 2016 I  bought the full version of Eagle, so I have the perpetual license for the Pro version.  The next month, everything changed.

     

    I am excited about the concept of having an integrated MECHANICAL/Electrical CAD system, and I hope that this becomes a reality.   It would make the increased cost of the system worthwhile.  

     

    If I understand the proposed licensing scheme, I will be able to subscribe to the smaller system for 4x6 boards, and use that, and if I need to work on a larger board, I rent the professional version for the duration of that job - 2 or 3 months, then go back to the lower cost licence.   So long as 10 years down the road I will be able to view the files, generate gerbers and drill files etc, I think that I can live with that.

     

    That said, I don't think that I will jump into V8 until the dust has settled - perhaps a couple of years.

     

    Mark

Children
  • in reply to sauerwald

    Hi Mark

     

    Thanks for the honest email and I can appreciate you want to hold off.  This is ok.  We are ok with this.  I will say that the 50% off promo for upgrades (the EAGLE50 promo code) will expire 6 mos from launch.  However I would expect a lot of progress by then to reassure you that we're not just blowing smoke.  FWIW, if you bought in december, you should contact the sales team at Autodesk on the eagle site and ask for a refund and rebill.  We can issue you a license of 7.7 but ensure you have the upgrade, so you can move across whenever you want.  That way you get the best of both worlds and you're not feeling like you paid twice for one item so close together.

     

    Hope that helps.

     

    Best regards,


    Matt

  • in reply to technolomaniac

    Matt,  This pricing does not allow for the hobbyist to continue working with Eagle.  I purchased the $169 option that allowed for 6 layers and 100x160mm boards and I designed within that limitation.  All my boards are 4 layer.  Now to get the same functionality is going to cost me $250 the first year and god know after that.  I do this for fun and don't make any money off it.  I would have no problem with a $250/subscription (every year) that also included benefits like an online parts library, but even that is a stretch, and at $500+ year, I simply can't afford it. 

     

    Why would you change the limitations of your enthusiast versions?

  • in reply to rbeaubien

    Robert Beaubien wrote on Tue, 07 February 2017 00:48

    Matt,  This pricing does not allow for the hobbyist to continue

    working with Eagle.  I purchased the $169 option that allowed for 6

    layers and 100x160mm boards and I designed within that limitation.  All

    my boards are 4 layer.  Now to get the same functionality is going to

    cost me $250 the first year and god know after that.

     

     

    Hi Robert, You don't need the premium subscription for 4 layer boards, they

    are upping the standard limit to 4 layers which I believe will be available

    in the next v8.0.1 release available any day now.

     

    Robert Beaubien wrote on Tue, 07 February 2017 00:48

      I do this for fun and don't make any money off it.  I would have no

    problem with a $250/subscription (every year) that also included benefits

    like an online parts library, but even that is a stretch, and at $500+

    year, I simply can't afford it.

     

     

    Online parts library... what a horrible idea.... EAGLE already comes with a

    large part library that you can use if you absolutely must. Really though,

    everybody should just create their own clean library which they fully check

    themselves as you cannot just blindly use libraries created by others

    without thoroughly checking them first anyway. I wouldn't want Autodesk

    wasting effort creating an online parts library which is essentially of no

    real value as they should be putting their resources into useful things

    like adding more high end routing features etc.

     

    Robert Beaubien wrote on Tue, 07 February 2017 00:48

    Why would you change the limitations of your enthusiast versions?

     

    There isn't an enthusiast subscription version at the moment. Both the

    subscription versions are fully commercial, it's just the freeware one

    which is non-commercial.

     

    Best Regards,

     

    Rachael

     

     

     

    --

    EAGLE support forums at http://www.eaglecentral.ca :: Where the EAGLE community meets.

     

  • in reply to rachaelp

    Hi Rachael,

     

    Yes this was also my objection, when I spoke here in this forum about standards.

    Eagle v8 licensing... (look for page 10, in the middle of the page)

    (first i asked for Matt, Jorge answered me. Then we talked about the standards.)

    Then Jorge told me that AutoDesk can make the standard PCB 160 cm² with up to 4 layers.

     

    But! - how can I (μ) PGA or (μ) BGA? You need more than 4 layers.
    Well, this is absolutely unreal to think that "standard" is 4 levels!


    -> This "standard" was a standard in the 1990s, when we started the electronic work.
    The standard in 1985 I worked with, was 99 layers with PCAD (v 5) - on the MSDOS platform.
    Eagle did not really exist at this time. In the 90s, Eagle entered the hobby scene.

     

    I do not know - do you know Elektor? This was an "absolute must" in the electronics hobby in Europe.
    My first Elektor was 11/1976 - the the Layouter worked by hand with Letraset, then the layout was copied onto a thermal transfer foil.
    In the 90s to 2k's Elektor used ULTIBOARD, I used PCAD, PROTEL, OrCAD, or by hand as a training.
    Then the 2k's PCAD was migrated to Altium, the price was astronomical. So I went to Cadsoft. (v5.12)
    Elektor is now using Altium. (Why I told Elektor, because that was the beginning for most electronics engineers, they went from hobby to pro.)

    Well, what is standard ?? !! - Standard is what the market needs by giving time -> today 2017 and future.

     

    No, my opinion, standard for Eagle must have a full number of layers as minimum, and 1 or 2 m² dimension, not 160 cm².
    All Others is for hobby. It is a step back when you stay in a place forever.
    With 160 cm² I can not create a 19" PCB with 6U - 160x233mm.
    What is standard? - 19" or mini-PCB mounted in a brake of a car?

    What is standard? - a space ship?
    Standard was for Eagle 160x100 with 6 layers (V6).

    Now it is 160x100 with 2 layers, then "comes back" 4 layers, as mentioned above.
    Well, this is an aggressive step back! The customers are cheated, pulled over the table.

    Customers are confused with "news". In a year, no one knows any more.
    The young engineers do not know how we, the old ones, fought at that time.
    Advertising on the web is designed to be confusing.

    Has super beautiful huge pictures, but extremely little meaning.

     

    AutoDesk does not matter, it says: "we also provide the software for the authorities and large companies." (See a message from Matt with this sentence).

    For us it is not matter, we are dependent and have to live on both sides to get slaps (supplier side and the customer side).

    Elektor has always advertised Eagle in the magazines.

    So that in the beginning 2000? ..2005 Eagle became more popular also in the industry.

    The small contractors and private individuals reached that Eagle was also accepted by the PCB manufacturers.

    Although Eagle has not progressed in the past 10 years, especially in the last 3 years, it is used by PCB manufacturers.

     

    This will probably be the focus for AutoDesk.

    Just how many PCB manufacturers are there? - much less than developer offices.

    And these developers do not want to be ripped off.

     

    Gerald

    ---