Duplicating my *.brd design in the same layout area

Chuck I am interested in getting a copy of the panelization spec you mentioned above.  Could you email me a copy. Thanks.

On 6/20/2011 10:14 PM, AL wrote:

On 6/20/2011 12:51 PM, Gary Gofstein wrote:

>> On 6/20/2011 12:29 PM, AL wrote:

>>> Thanks, Chuck! I shall attempt your suggestions and will post back

>>> feedback, so that others can benefits.

>> Whenever I order boards, especially small boards, they always send me

>> /lots/ of extras. So maybe, just do nothing

 

Please tell me the vendor I am using www.seeedstudio.com at

http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/fusion-pcb-service-p-835.html?cPath=185

 

$10 (US dollars) for 10 double-side 5cm x 5cm PCB boards.

 

The problem is that they won't cut for me. Since I will be cutting them,

I might as well maximize the space usage; otherwise, I can fit my boards

on a breadboard or the casing.

 

But, I am interesting knowing the vendor you use.

 

Thanks.

s/I can fit/I can't fit

On 6/20/2011 10:14 PM, AL wrote:

On 6/20/2011 12:51 PM, Gary Gofstein wrote:

>> On 6/20/2011 12:29 PM, AL wrote:

>>> Thanks, Chuck! I shall attempt your suggestions and will post back

>>> feedback, so that others can benefits.

>> Whenever I order boards, especially small boards, they always send me

>> /lots/ of extras. So maybe, just do nothing

 

Please tell me the vendor I am using www.seeedstudio.com at

http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/fusion-pcb-service-p-835.html?cPath=185

 

$10 (US dollars) for 10 double-side 5cm x 5cm PCB boards.

 

The problem is that they won't cut for me. Since I will be cutting them,

I might as well maximize the space usage; otherwise, I can fit my boards

on a breadboard or the casing.

 

But, I am interesting knowing the vendor you use.

 

Thanks.

s/I can fit/I can't fit

On 6/20/2011 12:51 PM, Gary Gofstein wrote:

On 6/20/2011 12:29 PM, AL wrote:

>> Thanks, Chuck! I shall attempt your suggestions and will post back

>> feedback, so that others can benefits.

Whenever I order boards, especially small boards, they always send me

/lots/ of extras. So maybe, just do nothing

Please tell me the vendor I am using www.seeedstudio.com at

http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/fusion-pcb-service-p-835.html?cPath=185

$10 (US dollars) for 10 double-side 5cm x 5cm PCB boards.

The problem is that they won't cut for me.  Since I will be cutting

them, I might as well maximize the space usage; otherwise, I can fit my

boards on a breadboard or the casing.

But, I am interesting knowing the vendor you use.

Thanks.

On 6/20/2011 12:29 PM, AL wrote:

Thanks, Chuck! I shall attempt your suggestions and will post back

feedback, so that others can benefits.

Whenever I order boards, especially small boards, they always send me

/lots/ of extras. So maybe, just do nothing

Thanks, Chuck!  I shall attempt your suggestions and will post back

feedback, so that others can benefits.

On 06/20/2011 01:30 PM, AL wrote:

On 6/20/11 6:40 AM, Chuck Huber wrote:

>> I then draw a .010" copper trace on the top

>> side around the perimeter of the board.

 

Hi Chuck,

 

Just one quick question on the above.  Any reason why using the copper

trace?  I realize it's for marking the boundary of each copy of the

board, but can I not make the boundary by using tDocument trace/line?

I was assuming that you'd be making barebones boards - top and bottom

copper only.  You can put the perimeter trace on any layer you want as

long as it's visible on the finished product.  tPlace and tNames both

default to being included in the top screen print.  tDocument would

work, too, provided you add that layer to the top screen print section

of your cam job.

For production boards, I provide my board house with gerber files for a

single copy of the board.  In a separate document, I instruct them to

panelize it into a 2x2 array (or what ever is appropriate), and to

include .400" process rails along two opposite edges.  In that same

document, I also instruct them to add three fiducial marks along the

process rails.  The reason for the process rails is to allow automated

equipment at the assembly house to more efficiently handle the panel,

and to prevent parts from being moved around by tooling before it goes

into the reflow oven.  I specify .400" rails (relatively large) so that

the panel can be handled by hand.

(The panelization spec is too large for this news group.  I'll send it

directly to you by email.  If anyone else would like a copy, let me know.)

For panelization, I prefer to specify tab routing, simply because it's

easier to break the boards off of the panel.  I found that with the

v-groove scoring, the boards had to be bent too much to separate them,

which, as one might expect, would often break the solder joint on SMD

packages, leading to intermittent failures, and failures over time.  I

have encountered instances where an SMD resistor actually broke in half,

and instances where a resistor simply popped off the board.

The down-side to tab routing is that is costs a little more for the

additional board area.  The up side is that you have a higher yield and

are able to avoid some causes of intermittent operation and early

failure.  I'll go with reliability.

Once I get the board, I will have cut out the copies.   Any tips of

which best tool to use?

Well, if you go the one-up board with tab routes as I described above

and let the board house array the board for you, all you'll need is a

pair of wire snips to snip the board out of the panel.  A little sand

paper or a hand file will knock the stub off the board in no time.

If, however, you have array'ed the board yourself (per our earlier

discussion), you can use a band saw or a jig saw to separate the boards,

then use a hand file or a belt sander to trim the board down to a more

accurate size.

I would avoid using any type of scissors, like aircraft snips or sheet

metal snips.  The shearing force will often delaminate the fiberglass

layers in the vicinity of the cut, which can result in broken vias (yet

another problem introducing intermittent operation).

The key is to avoid bending the board.  A band saw and a belt sander

have worked well for me.

Best regards,

    - Chuck

On 6/20/11 6:40 AM, Chuck Huber wrote:

I then draw a .010" copper trace on the top

side around the perimeter of the board.

Hi Chuck,

Just one quick question on the above.  Any reason why using the copper

trace?  I realize it's for marking the boundary of each copy of the

board, but can I not make the boundary by using tDocument trace/line?

Once I get the board, I will have cut out the copies.   Any tips of

which best tool to use?

Thanks again!

On 6/20/11 6:40 AM, Chuck Huber wrote:

On 06/20/2011 12:50 AM, AL wrote:

...

>> Basically, I would to make use of the 5cm X 5cm board to have two of my

>> 2cm X 2cm design in it.  The PCB manufacturer won't do it.

>>

>> So, my only chance is put TWO of my design side by side in the same

>> layout, that is, same *.brd file.  How would I duplicate the same design

>> with in the same layout?

 

I'm sure this has been addressed before, but here's how I do it.

 

Once I have the board layout for one board correct, I save everything,

then close the schematic.  I then draw a .010" copper trace on the top

side around the perimeter of the board.

 

With all layers turned on, I group the entire board, tag it at the

origin, then paste copies of it in an array, leaving about .100" spacing

between each copy in both the X and the Y directions.  To meet the 5cm x

5cm minimum size, you can produce a 2x2 array with the copies positioned

so that these size requirements are met.

 

Important: Save the board as xxx-Array.brd, so you don't overwrite

your original design.

 

The .100" is wide enough to allow a band saw to cut the individual

boards out of the array.  I also use a belt sander to sand the board

down to its original size, using the 10mil trace around each board as a

guide.

 

Enjoy,

     - Chuck

Thank you very much for your help!  Thanks to Jacob's suggestion as

well, but duplicating pieces in the schematic is very problematic,

because all parts are named incrementally, thus, causing board to have

different part names.  I am giving Chuck's suggestion a go.

On 06/20/2011 12:50 AM, AL wrote:

...

Basically, I would to make use of the 5cm X 5cm board to have two of my

2cm X 2cm design in it.  The PCB manufacturer won't do it.

 

So, my only chance is put TWO of my design side by side in the same

layout, that is, same *.brd file.  How would I duplicate the same design

with in the same layout?

I'm sure this has been addressed before, but here's how I do it.

Once I have the board layout for one board correct, I save everything,

then close the schematic.  I then draw a .010" copper trace on the top

side around the perimeter of the board.

With all layers turned on, I group the entire board, tag it at the

origin, then paste copies of it in an array, leaving about .100" spacing

between each copy in both the X and the Y directions.  To meet the 5cm x

5cm minimum size, you can produce a 2x2 array with the copies positioned

so that these size requirements are met.

Important: Save the board as xxx-Array.brd, so you don't overwrite

your original design.

The .100" is wide enough to allow a band saw to cut the individual

boards out of the array.  I also use a belt sander to sand the board

down to its original size, using the 10mil trace around each board as a

guide.

Enjoy,

    - Chuck