Beer for eagle users

davem wrote on Thu, 21 July 2011 18:57

So Please Olin, Don't give me your bullshit on how "I SHOULDN'T BE AN

ENGINEER" just cause I don't like "COMMAND LINE TYPING",

Good engineers learn to use the tools at their disposal.  The command line

(this is not just about Eagle) is far more productive than a clickety-click

interface once you take the trouble to learn it.

Saying you don't want to use the command line because you don't want to

bother learning and getting used to it is a lot like saying you don't have

time to read the manual.  Both are false economics, which real engineers

understand.

--

Web access to CadSoft support forums at www.eaglecentral.ca.  Where the CadSoft EAGLE community meets.

Owen wrote:

Yes, I know this, Mr Brayshaw, however I do not have time to go

through pages and pages of documentation when the help can't even

tell me what I need to know. And let it be known that I have rarely

posted a question on this forum without looking quite thoroughly for

help in the help index. I don't even time to read a book at home, I

work nine-ten hours aday, so searching in vain for help is useless

when I trust others can take a minute of their time to save me an

hour.

 

In any case, I thank all those who have taken the time to answer,

And I wouldn't waste my time pointing you somewhere the answer wasn't.

It is a regular occurance here that a poster is unaware of the pdf manual

and tutorial included with Eagle.

The application HELP and the .pdf manual provide information with a

different focus.  As you get familiar with both of  them, you get to know

where it's better to look.

I don't scan sequentially, "pages and pages ". The pdf are searchable so a

single search word usually gets the answer. A simple down arrow of the

search results lets you scan all the relevant sections in a time far less

than it takes to post a question here.

For your post, searching the word 'attribute' quickly reveals , with

examples,  the use and subtities of attributes, their options and how to

view them.

By the way, nobody mentioned viewing the attribute with the right click

context menu, then select 'attribute'.

All the best

Warren

Dave,

I can't tell you how happy I am to read that, I have also noticed this, and

usually shrugged it off, but I do believe it was about time somebody stood

up (an an "internet" sort of way, obviously) for themselves and others

(indirectly).

Olin seems to be quite well informed about everything, I truly believe he

is, and anyone else who doesn't know what he knows deserves criticism.

Well, that's just not true, I don't see how someone could have this

constant attitude: telling others they're dumb because they don't know

something or have different (while remaining respectable) views is

ridiculous. And he should know that.

Furthermore, another thing I am tired of reading is "read the manual" "the

manual is included with the software" etc...

Yes, I know this, Mr Brayshaw, however I do not have time to go through

pages and pages of documentation when the help can't even tell me what I

need to know. And let it be known that I have rarely posted a question on

this forum without looking quite thoroughly for help in the help index. I

don't even time to read a book at home, I work nine-ten hours aday, so

searching in vain for help is useless when I trust others can take a minute

of their time to save me an hour.

In any case, I thank all those who have taken the time to answer,

and sorry, there is no free beer...

--

Web access to CadSoft support forums at www.eaglecentral.ca.  Where the CadSoft EAGLE community meets.

That explains a lot. If you want a fluffy sugar coated clickety click

interface for everything then you've got no business being a engineer. Grow

up already and learn to use the command line. Then maybe you'll realize how

much more efficient it is.

Olin,

You are really starting to piss me off with YOUR Attitude!

Almost every suggestion that's made you have some antiquated excuses for it

not to be implemented, I believe its because you are set in YOUR ways ( Old

school ) and any changes may "break" your ulps or workflows. ( or you own

cadsoft shares and don't want to spend any money on changes)

Well I say Stiff!

I take your comment "you've got no business being a engineer" as a direct

insult!

My background is in manufacturing and production control for 20 years,

Including  HIgh Level Planning and Logistics, MRPII, DRP, LRP, CRP etc ,

Inventory Control, PCB Assembly manufacturing 3 years, Production Control,

Job Costing, Prototype engineering management, Documentation Control ( for

Electronics and others ), APIC'S Qualified, blah , blah blah, I know a few

other programming languages ( Object Orientated), I develop my own software

( business and electronic communications based, with SQL based databases,

and general knowledge on relational database design),  as well as I have

been learning electronics engineering and for the last 5 - 6 years. I am

currently running an electronics business and its making money. Oh, Not to

mention purchasing manager/controller for 7 years, I have come from a PAPER

AND PENCIL "REAL" spreadsheet background ( in 1980's) to fully computerised

production & purchasing systems for large companies  . I also develop  my

own Business database software to manage Inventory & BOM"s. I have worked

on large corporations databases in all areas from sales, marketing to

production control and distribution.( some of which I have designed

myself)

So Please Olin, Don't give me your bullshit on how "I SHOULDN'T BE AN

ENGINEER" just cause I don't like "COMMAND LINE TYPING", I believe many NEW

users are afraid to ask questions here because of your negativity.

peace!

Dave M

--

Web access to CadSoft support forums at www.eaglecentral.ca.  Where the CadSoft EAGLE community meets.

 

LOL!!!  Well, I was wondering when someone would say something!

Actually I wouldn't have means to supply beer at a distance but I do

thank you for help, as well as others.

I guess I know now that an attribute field that's added in the part

editor cannot be filled in by the user at schematic placement, which

sucks for anything like resistors, capacitors and inductors.

The problem with using BOM.ulp is that it isn't the BOM ulp we use.

Someone modified the BOM ulp (most liekely) and renamed it to the one

we are using now, and backtracking his work (or him) is not an

option. I cannot start using BOM.ulp because it doesn't do what our

"Telebom" ulp does. I can try it just for the sake of trying it and

seeing, but eventually I will need to access the attributes from the

Device info window.

 

DaveM was talking about several Keystrokes and mouseclicks to change

this attributee, saying it was too much work. I'd liek to know

exactly what is involved.  Then I can see if it's worth it.

You are still saying things and asking questions that suggest you have not

read the manual. You will find it in the docs folder of your Eagke

installation.

Warren

Morten Leikvoll wrote on Thu, 21 July 2011 04:36

"Owen" <<private_email>> wrote in message

news:j07bpf$6vs$<private_email>...

To add even more confusion, old attributes like "name" and "value" is

not

really a part of this attribute system. It should be, together with

package

type, angle and so on. Maybe even position.

 

And also, you can have global attributes to sch and brd which is not

connected, even if they have the same name.

 

I assume all these issues will be addressed in next version..

 

Now, where is my beer?

LOL!!!  Well, I was wondering when someone would say something!

Actually I wouldn't have means to supply beer at a distance but I do thank

you for help, as well as others.

I guess I know now that an attribute field that's added in the part editor

cannot be filled in by the user at schematic placement, which sucks for

anything like resistors, capacitors and inductors.

The problem with using BOM.ulp is that it isn't the BOM ulp we use. Someone

modified the BOM ulp (most liekely) and renamed it to the one we are using

now, and backtracking his work (or him) is not an option. I cannot start

using BOM.ulp because it doesn't do what our "Telebom" ulp does. I can try

it just for the sake of trying it and seeing, but eventually I will need to

access the attributes from the Device info window.

DaveM was talking about several Keystrokes and mouseclicks to change this

attributee, saying it was too much work. I'd liek to know exactly what is

involved.  Then I can see if it's worth it.

--

Web access to CadSoft support forums at www.eaglecentral.ca.  Where the CadSoft EAGLE community meets.

Am 21.07.2011 14:45, schrieb Olin Lathrop:

Quote:

>> I hate typing!

 

That explains a lot.  If you want a fluffy sugar coated clickety click

interface for everything then you've got no business being a engineer.

Grow up already and learn to use the command line.  Then maybe you'll

realize how much more efficient it is.

As a matter of fact, with proper libraries and by using the command line

and keyboard shortcuts as well as the mouse, you can create schematics

AT LEAST five times faster than by just using the mouse alone (compared

to people who are relatively new to EAGLE you can even be TWENTY times

faster). No kidding.

For the board, the impact is not as large as that, but you save, say,

roughly 20% of working time.

This is ONE of the reasons why I prefer EAGLE compared to other systems:

Keyboard support is MUCH better, so you can use the software MUCH more

efficiently.

Andreas Weidner

davem wrote on Wed, 20 July 2011 19:40

Eagle cad has built in attribute features, but they are poorly

implemented.

You should read the help for the ATTRIBUTE command then.  There is a lot of

stuff in there.  It's also very useful to make scripts with that command.

It's well suited for that.

Quote:

You have to add one attribute to only one part at a time, even though

you want them for all your parts. ( yes I know the is a ulp for this, but

it does not work!)

My ATTR_ALL ULP works very nicely for this.  I'm not aware of any

unintended effects.  It sets a attribute for all technologies and packages

of a device in a library.  It's quite useful for setting the manufacturer

name, for example, which is independent of package and technology.  If you

want something just for the current technology or package, it should be

trivial to modify from there.

All my ULPs and various other Eagle facilities are available in the Eagle

Tools release at http://www.embedinc.com/pic/dload.htm.  This includes a

set of ULPs, scripts, and host programs that use a consistant attributes

convention for BOM information.

Quote:

You can add these attributes  and they will appear in the Info Window,

but as I said they are poorly implemented, you cant edit them in the info

window. you have to do this with about 5 more mouse clicks!!

I don't know about the info window, but you can bring up the attributes

window easily any time with the ATTR command if you really want to use the

clickety-click interface.  Usually just enterting the full ATTR command is

a lot easier.

Quote:

Why can't they just have a set of user preferences, which provide a

list of common attributes, i.e Part Number, Manufacture cost ect. Then

you simply add a handful of your attributes to your preference list.

ONCE!!!

This makes no sense.  If you want a set of common attributes defined for

some object, then you can easily create a single script once that does

that.  However the real problem is filling in those attributes, not

creating them.  Since every part is different, your preferences couldn't

supply manufacturer, part number, etc, so I don't understand what you are

asking Eagle to do.

Quote:

When you call up your info window for a part, all those attributes will

appear as editable entry field boxes, so you can easily maintain your

data.

You can already do that with the ATTR command.

Quote:

This data need to be kept in a separate database file .

Then you don't want it stored in the Eagle attributes?  The information

needs to be stored somewhere, preferably only in one place so that multiple

places can't get out of sync.  Either that place is the Eagle attributes or

not.  I use the Eagle attributes because I don't have a database.  I have

been toying with the idea of having internal part numbers that reference

information in a external database, and have my BOM tools look that up in

that case, but I haven't implemented that yet.

Quote:

CADSOFT need to IMPLEMENT a proper built in BOM & ATTRIBUTES System,

No, they need not to, since it will undoubtedly break everyone else's BOM

tools.  Cadsoft has given us all the tools we need to implement BOM support

the way we want to.

Quote:

right now I am doing this exact PAINFUL task, I have finished my

schematic, I have finished my PCB Layout, so all I need to do is to

create my BOM. This BOM needs real parts "INFO"  from suppliers entered

in so the board can be made.

Right.  You enter whatever information you can in your libraries, which

becomes the default when a part is used.  In some cases library devices are

generic, so you may need to add more information to particular instances of

that part in the schematic.  Once that's done, you can automatically

generate a BOM.  This is exactly what I do.

Quote:

I do not want to just export to a spreadsheet and maintain the BOM

their , thats so "90's", the BOM details MUST be part of the design and

must be built in to eaglecad AND BE ACCESSIBLE no different to the

schematic or layout windows, in fact I think there should be a button and

window just for this purpose. so we should have three buttons,

"Schematic", "Layout", "BOM"

Instead of a button I have a ULP, also called BOM.  A button is a bad idea

since then we'd only get a BOM the way Cadsoft imagines it, which is

unlikely to suite anyone's needs well.

Quote:

This ulp requires a .TSV file which becomes a small "database" of your

parts, this ULP needs some work as its a pain to set its parameters each

time you use it, but so far I have managed to..

So use a different ULP or write your own.  I've done all that and anyone

can use it for free.  My BOM ULP creates a file ready to import directly

into a spreadsheet, and even creates the template spreadsheet to import it

into.  I'd probably have it create the spreadsheet directly if I knew how

to run Excel from the command line to do that.

Quote:

I hate typing!

That explains a lot.  If you want a fluffy sugar coated clickety click

interface for everything then you've got no business being a engineer.

Grow up already and learn to use the command line.  Then maybe you'll

realize how much more efficient it is.

--

Web access to CadSoft support forums at www.eaglecentral.ca.  Where the CadSoft EAGLE community meets.

"Owen" <old62buick@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:j07bpf$6vs$1@cheetah.cadsoft.de...

now that I have your attention ,

I'd like to ask my question one more time:

Pertaining to the Eagle attributes described below, how does one access

any

of these attributes? I have tried to understand but I simply don't...

There

have been a couple of discussions on this forum about attributes, but I

can't find something that will help me.

 

If I want to have access to say, PARTNUM, how do I do this? Is it through

the info window of a part? Or is it by modifying a device in the library?

I think much of the confusion on Eagle attributes is all the different

levels it supports.

You can DEFINE attributes to parts at part editor, and have a default value

set. I prefer this way.

You can also DEFINE attributes to a single parts at schematics level. This

is a bit risky, as you need to be an expert to know what happens if you

update it or delete it again. Changing attribute values must be done at this

level of course, but defining is like offroading on the highway.

To add even more confusion, old attributes like "name" and "value" is not

really a part of this attribute system. It should be, together with package

type, angle and so on. Maybe even position.

And also, you can have global attributes to sch and brd which is not

connected, even if they have the same name.

I assume all these issues will be addressed in next version..

Now, where is my beer?

Hi Redcutlass,

I think there is a ULP that will add attributes for all library parts, I

tried one of them and couldn't get it to work.

The idea is that the ULP will do the adding of the SAME attribute across a

range of parts in a library for you. ( me thinks )

Having said that, Even if you add an attribute to a part, its a pain to

edit it, It may well appear in the INFO WINDOW, but you cant edit it there,

you cant even double click it, very poor implementation.

You CAN Edit it , but you have to call up the attributes command and

several keystrokes later its changed, So if you want to add say  PART

NUMBER value , theres about a million clicks to perform. I gave up on

attributes.

try using the BOM.ULP, create a database and add the fields that you want.

Then you can edit all the parameters fairly easily.

If you use the same part on another board, and use the same database, those

part details will show up.

THis is still not the nest solution, but its probably the simplest.

I dont no who came up with the attributes idea, but its stupid, its such a

simple simple thing,

Dave M

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Web access to CadSoft support forums at www.eaglecentral.ca.  Where the CadSoft EAGLE community meets.