Eurocircuits and V6 .brd files

Robert <robert@nospam.ch> wrote:

Just mailed two designs to Eurocircuits this afternoon made by Eagle V6.

Received a reject as 'does not look to be a valid .brd file'.

I wonder if they know about the changes in V6?

The new version is out only some two weeks. Give them some time. Board review

for eurocircuit is in India to my knowledge, so perhaps even some more time

is needed.

Also think about delivering Gerber RS2xx. That way, data is fixed and not

subject to subtile differences in setup.

Bye

--

Uwe Bonnes                bon@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de

Institut fuer Kernphysik  Schlossgartenstrasse 9  64289 Darmstadt

-

Tel. 06151 162516 -

Fax. 06151 164321 -

On 22/12/2011 21:13, Uwe Bonnes wrote:

Robert<robert@nospam.ch>  wrote:

>> Just mailed two designs to Eurocircuits this afternoon made by Eagle V6.

>> Received a reject as 'does not look to be a valid .brd file'.

>> I wonder if they know about the changes in V6?

 

The new version is out only some two weeks. Give them some time. Board review

for eurocircuit is in India to my knowledge, so perhaps even some more time

is needed.

 

Also think about delivering Gerber RS2xx. That way, data is fixed and not

subject to subtile differences in setup.

 

Bye

Hmm, that will likely stop it solid. Altough Eurocircuits did build good

boards based on .brd files for me in the past. Not having generated

Gerber files at all, I will have some reading to do, as we want to build

prototypes for customers in a few weeks. This is the moment where I

regret to have upgraded to V6 early.

In the online help, 'GERBER' does not do much, but I saw a gerber.cam

file. Should the result be a collection of files, like a drill file etc?

Cancelling and trying another board house right now might get me in the

same problem again.

Robert

On 22/12/2011 22:02, Robert wrote:

On 22/12/2011 21:13, Uwe Bonnes wrote:

>> Robert<robert@nospam.ch> wrote:

>>> Just mailed two designs to Eurocircuits this afternoon made by Eagle V6.

>>> Received a reject as 'does not look to be a valid .brd file'.

>>> I wonder if they know about the changes in V6?

>>

>> The new version is out only some two weeks. Give them some time. Board

>> review

>> for eurocircuit is in India to my knowledge, so perhaps even some more

>> time

>> is needed.

>>

>> Also think about delivering Gerber RS2xx. That way, data is fixed and not

>> subject to subtile differences in setup.

>>

>> Bye

 

Hmm, that will likely stop it solid. Altough Eurocircuits did build good

boards based on .brd files for me in the past. Not having generated

Gerber files at all, I will have some reading to do, as we want to build

prototypes for customers in a few weeks. This is the moment where I

regret to have upgraded to V6 early.

 

In the online help, 'GERBER' does not do much, but I saw a gerber.cam

file. Should the result be a collection of files, like a drill file etc?

 

Cancelling and trying another board house right now might get me in the

same problem again.

 

Robert

 

Well, that did not look that hard. Found the instructions, generated

drill file and a 4-layer Gerber, zipped them up and updated my order.

Hopefully that was the right way.

Robert

>>

>> Robert

>>

Well, that did not look that hard. Found the instructions, generated

drill file and a 4-layer Gerber, zipped them up and updated my order.

Hopefully that was the right way.

 

Robert

 

>

It is very important to verify that all the necessary files are there,

contain the correct layers and are not mirrored.

Robert wrote:

On 22/12/2011 21:13, Uwe Bonnes wrote:

>> Robert<robert@nospam.ch>  wrote:

>>> Just mailed two designs to Eurocircuits this afternoon made by

>>> Eagle V6. Received a reject as 'does not look to be a valid .brd

>>> file'.

>>> I wonder if they know about the changes in V6?

>>

>> The new version is out only some two weeks. Give them some time.

>> Board review for eurocircuit is in India to my knowledge, so perhaps

>> even some more time is needed.

>>

>> Also think about delivering Gerber RS2xx. That way, data is fixed

>> and not subject to subtile differences in setup.

>>

>> Bye

 

Hmm, that will likely stop it solid. Altough Eurocircuits did build

good boards based on .brd files for me in the past. Not having

generated Gerber files at all, I will have some reading to do, as we

want to build prototypes for customers in a few weeks. This is the

moment where I regret to have upgraded to V6 early.

 

In the online help, 'GERBER' does not do much, but I saw a gerber.cam

file. Should the result be a collection of files, like a drill file

etc?

 

Cancelling and trying another board house right now might get me in

the same problem again.

 

Robert

Review the tutorial that ships with Eagle, found in the DOCs folder.

Section: Output of drawings and manufacturing data.

Gerber is simple  and nothing to be affraid of. Note a drill file will need

generating as well as the multiple files for the layers considerd Gerber.

Before shipping gerbers, view them yourself. using a viewer. GC-Prevue and

gerbv are a couple to try.

It also helps if you understand the order of the process steps the

manufacturer uses. That way you don't flipout when you view a Gerber copper

layer with no holes depicted.

Eurocircuits have a page

http://www.eurocircuits.com/index.php/technology-guidelines/pcb-layout-data/117-cadsoft-eagle-brd-to-gerber-conversion-guidelines

All the best

Warren

--

Viewed / responded via the newsgroup at

news.cadsoft.de

Robert wrote:

On 22/12/2011 21:13, Uwe Bonnes wrote:

>> Robert<robert@nospam.ch>  wrote:

>>> Just mailed two designs to Eurocircuits this afternoon made by

>>> Eagle V6. Received a reject as 'does not look to be a valid .brd

>>> file'.

>>> I wonder if they know about the changes in V6?

>>

>> The new version is out only some two weeks. Give them some time.

>> Board review for eurocircuit is in India to my knowledge, so perhaps

>> even some more time is needed.

>>

>> Also think about delivering Gerber RS2xx. That way, data is fixed

>> and not subject to subtile differences in setup.

>>

>> Bye

 

Hmm, that will likely stop it solid. Altough Eurocircuits did build

good boards based on .brd files for me in the past. Not having

generated Gerber files at all, I will have some reading to do, as we

want to build prototypes for customers in a few weeks. This is the

moment where I regret to have upgraded to V6 early.

 

In the online help, 'GERBER' does not do much, but I saw a gerber.cam

file. Should the result be a collection of files, like a drill file

etc?

 

Cancelling and trying another board house right now might get me in

the same problem again.

 

Robert

Review the tutorial that ships with Eagle, found in the DOCs folder.

Section: Output of drawings and manufacturing data.

Gerber is simple  and nothing to be affraid of. Note a drill file will need

generating as well as the multiple files for the layers considerd Gerber.

Before shipping gerbers, view them yourself. using a viewer. GC-Prevue and

gerbv are a couple to try.

It also helps if you understand the order of the process steps the

manufacturer uses. That way you don't flipout when you view a Gerber copper

layer with no holes depicted.

Eurocircuits have a page

http://www.eurocircuits.com/index.php/technology-guidelines/pcb-layout-data/117-cadsoft-eagle-brd-to-gerber-conversion-guidelines

All the best

Warren

--

Viewed / responded via the newsgroup at

news.cadsoft.de

On 22/12/2011 23:17, Warren Brayshaw wrote:

It also helps if you understand the order of the process steps the

manufacturer uses. That way you don't flipout when you view a Gerber copper

layer with no holes depicted.

Eurocircuits have a page

http://www.eurocircuits.com/index.php/technology-guidelines/pcb-layout-data/117-cadsoft-eagle-brd-to-gerber-conversion-guidelines

 

>

All the best

Warren

 

>

Warren, thank you, that is a page I should have read first. Anyway, I

think I followed the rules and submitted what was needed. The result

will tell.

Best wishes for Chrismas and the new year.

Regards, Robert

On 23/12/2011 09:24, Robert wrote:

On 22/12/2011 23:17, Warren Brayshaw wrote:

>> It also helps if you understand the order of the process steps the

>> manufacturer uses. That way you don't flipout when you view a Gerber

>> copper

>> layer with no holes depicted.

>> Eurocircuits have a page

>> http://www.eurocircuits.com/index.php/technology-guidelines/pcb-layout-data/117-cadsoft-eagle-brd-to-gerber-conversion-guidelines

>>

>>

>>

>> All the best

>> Warren

>>

>>

Warren, thank you, that is a page I should have read first. Anyway, I

think I followed the rules and submitted what was needed. The result

will tell.

 

Best wishes for Chrismas and the new year.

Regards, Robert

 

Well, the 4 layer boards came back with a layer missing. I used the ULP

to generate the Gerber files for a 4 layer board and send it to

Eurocircuits. When asking confirmation by mail, the answer was that it

would be processed as a 4 layer board.

I downloaded GC-Prevue, but can't make sense of it (it asks for file

extensions that are not part of the many Gerber files I created). The

HELP menu assumes that you know how to operate it.

Is there a document that describes how to open Gerber files in GC-Prevue?

Which board house accepts .BRD files of Eagle 6? I made 100+ boards this

way, never a problem.

Robert

 

Is there a document that describes how to open Gerber files in GC-Prevue?

 

To use GC Prevue, open the program, then go to File>Import and select

all of your gerber files and then you get a chance to select layer

colors etc.

On 13/01/2012 23:25, Doug wrote:

>>

>> Is there a document that describes how to open Gerber files in GC-Prevue?

>>

>

To use GC Prevue, open the program, then go to File>Import and select

all of your gerber files and then you get a chance to select layer

colors etc.

 

Doug, thanks. At least I see something, so I repeated the whole process:

Followed Eurocircuits guidelines for a 4 layer board:

- Ran CAM processor, selected gerb274x-4layer.cam, activated Dimension

in every layer.

- Processed the job

- Did the same for the drill file.

- Zipped it all up.

Imported the zip file in GC Prevue.

End up with 3 Hole/Rout layers (.dri, .drd, .gpi),

and 10 Unknown physical layers P1-P10 with extensions .pls, .plc, etc.

Displayed like:

Physical layers

(v)P1 Unknown "Qbus_V21.pls"

     +(v)P1.1 "Qbus_V21.pls"[a001]

...

GC-Prevue reports 0 errors.

Would this be related to gerb274x-4layer.cam not being compatible with

Eagle V6?

Robert

Robert <Robert@nospam.ch> wrote:

On 13/01/2012 23:25, Doug wrote:

>>

>>>

>>> Is there a document that describes how to open Gerber files in GC-Prevue?

>>>

>>

>> To use GC Prevue, open the program, then go to File>Import and select

>> all of your gerber files and then you get a chance to select layer

>> colors etc.

>>

Doug, thanks. At least I see something, so I repeated the whole process:

Followed Eurocircuits guidelines for a 4 layer board:

- Ran CAM processor, selected gerb274x-4layer.cam, activated Dimension in every layer.

- Processed the job

- Did the same for the drill file.

- Zipped it all up.

 

Imported the zip file in GC Prevue.

 

End up with 3 Hole/Rout layers (.dri, .drd, .gpi),

and 10 Unknown physical layers P1-P10 with extensions .pls, .plc, etc.

Displayed like:

 

Physical layers

(v)P1 Unknown "Qbus_V21.pls"

    +(v)P1.1 "Qbus_V21.pls"[a001]

...

 

GC-Prevue reports 0 errors.

 

Would this be related to gerb274x-4layer.cam not being compatible with Eagle V6?

 

Robert

Im curious, what layers did you draw om and what layers does the cam file

process?

I would not recommend using any cam file unless you really know how it

works.

Op Sat, 14 Jan 2012 10:29:52 +0100 schreef Robert <Robert@nospam.ch>:

On 13/01/2012 23:25, Doug wrote:

>>

>>>

>>> Is there a document that describes how to open Gerber files in 

>>> GC-Prevue?

>>>

>>

>> To use GC Prevue, open the program, then go to File>Import and select

>> all of your gerber files and then you get a chance to select layer

>> colors etc.

>>

Doug, thanks. At least I see something, so I repeated the whole process:

Followed Eurocircuits guidelines for a 4 layer board:

- Ran CAM processor, selected gerb274x-4layer.cam, activated Dimension 

in every layer.

- Processed the job

- Did the same for the drill file.

- Zipped it all up.

 

Imported the zip file in GC Prevue.

 

End up with 3 Hole/Rout layers (.dri, .drd, .gpi),

and 10 Unknown physical layers P1-P10 with extensions .pls, .plc, etc.

Displayed like:

 

Physical layers

(v)P1 Unknown "Qbus_V21.pls"

     +(v)P1.1 "Qbus_V21.pls"[a001]

...

 

GC-Prevue reports 0 errors.

 

Would this be related to gerb274x-4layer.cam not being compatible with 

Eagle V6?

 

Robert

 

>

Hello Robert,

You don't need to process the .dri file (= ASCII info file) or any of the 

.GPI files (same). All drill info is contained within the .drd file, at 

least when you use the EXCELLON drill device.

In the Eagle documentation (help > generating output) you can find what 

the CAM extensions are used for:

-

File   Layers               Meaning

-

*.cmp  Top, Via, Pad        Component side

*.ly2  Route2, Via, Pad     Inner signal layer

*.ly3  Route3, Via, Pad     Inner signal layer

*.ly4  $User1               Inner supply layer

...                         ...

*.sol  Bot, Via, Pad        Solder side

*.plc  tPl, Dim, tName,     Silkscreen comp. side

*.pls  bPl, Dim, bName,     Silkscreen solder side

*.stc  tStop                Solder stop mask comp. side

*.sts  bStop                Solder stop mask sold. side

*.drd  Drills, Holes        Drill data for NC drill st.

-

The "unknown" layers in GC Prevue are just because you didn't gave them a 

name. While importing you are given the chance to name the layer and 

indicate it's purpose. 'signal', 'soldermask', etc. and 'top', 'bottom', 

etc. are indicated in drop lists.

I don't think you should (need to) activate the dimension layer in every 

layer. At least I don't. I make one layer that I call .fab, where the 

'dimension' layer is included along with the 'drills' and 'holes' layer. 

When you plot every layer with the GERBER_RS274X device you should import 

them (as Doug said) as a "physical layer". The .drd file should be 

imported as a "hole /rout layer". When 'autoguessing' the settings in the 

drill file GC Prevue often get's it wrong. If hat happens, you'll see the 

drills plotted in (totally) wrong places. Just delete the hole/rout layer 

and the associated aperture file and start the import again. This time, in 

the "Import - Verify File Information" window, right click on the NC drill 

file and choose "Modify format parameters..." . look for the right 

settings, especially "whole digits" (2), "precision" (4) and the right 

format for the "embedded drill table units" (inches or mm).

remember that the way gerber files are made are a bit 'loose', meaning 

things like file extensions are not defined (every program uses different 

ones) and PCB manufacturers sometimes have different idea's of what should 

be included in what layer and in what format. So it is always wise to see 

if your intended PCB manufacturer has an explanation of how he expects 

things and if not, give 'm a call.

That said, I've made hundred's of PCB's with different manufacturers and 

never really had a problem. I've used GC Prevue for more than 10 years and 

it always worked fine. As said, it sometimes only needs a little attention 

when importing the drill file.

Good luck,

Richard

On 14/01/2012 14:35, Richard Herman wrote:

Hello Robert,

 

You don't need to process the .dri file (= ASCII info file) or any of

the .GPI files (same). All drill info is contained within the .drd file,

at least when you use the EXCELLON drill device.

 

In the Eagle documentation (help > generating output) you can find what

the CAM extensions are used for:

 

-------------------------------------------------------

File Layers Meaning

-------------------------------------------------------

*.cmp Top, Via, Pad Component side

*.ly2 Route2, Via, Pad Inner signal layer

*.ly3 Route3, Via, Pad Inner signal layer

*.ly4 $User1 Inner supply layer

... ...

*.sol Bot, Via, Pad Solder side

*.plc tPl, Dim, tName, Silkscreen comp. side

*.pls bPl, Dim, bName, Silkscreen solder side

*.stc tStop Solder stop mask comp. side

*.sts bStop Solder stop mask sold. side

*.drd Drills, Holes Drill data for NC drill st.

-------------------------------------------------------

 

The "unknown" layers in GC Prevue are just because you didn't gave them

a name. While importing you are given the chance to name the layer and

indicate it's purpose. 'signal', 'soldermask', etc. and 'top', 'bottom',

etc. are indicated in drop lists.

 

I don't think you should (need to) activate the dimension layer in every

layer. At least I don't. I make one layer that I call .fab, where the

'dimension' layer is included along with the 'drills' and 'holes' layer.

When you plot every layer with the GERBER_RS274X device you should

import them (as Doug said) as a "physical layer". The .drd file should

be imported as a "hole /rout layer". When 'autoguessing' the settings in

the drill file GC Prevue often get's it wrong. If hat happens, you'll

see the drills plotted in (totally) wrong places. Just delete the

hole/rout layer and the associated aperture file and start the import

again. This time, in the "Import - Verify File Information" window,

right click on the NC drill file and choose "Modify format

parameters..." . look for the right settings, especially "whole digits"

(2), "precision" (4) and the right format for the "embedded drill table

units" (inches or mm).

 

remember that the way gerber files are made are a bit 'loose', meaning

things like file extensions are not defined (every program uses

different ones) and PCB manufacturers sometimes have different idea's of

what should be included in what layer and in what format. So it is

always wise to see if your intended PCB manufacturer has an explanation

of how he expects things and if not, give 'm a call.

 

That said, I've made hundred's of PCB's with different manufacturers and

never really had a problem. I've used GC Prevue for more than 10 years

and it always worked fine. As said, it sometimes only needs a little

attention when importing the drill file.

 

Good luck,

 

Richard

Richard, thanks a lot. I spend a lot of time trying to display a single

layer in GC Prevue (an application from hell if you are new to this),

but did not succeed. However I found a great viewer on the web,

GerberLogix (free for non commercial use) which is a breeze to use.

I see that layer 3 (in Eagle), which became .L15 in the Gerber files,

was completely wrong, no wiring. This is probably because the quad layer

board was defined in Eagle as (123*16). Have to read more about that.

Anyway, thanks for the advice.

Regards, Robert