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PCB Forum The magic of Tin cans!
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The magic of Tin cans!

battlecoder
battlecoder 11 months ago

I've been learning more about electromagnetic interference for a while now, and in the process improving my tools and my understanding on how to measure, counter and prevent EMI, noise, crosstalk, etc. And this weekend I had the opportunity to put some of that knowledge in practice (although admittedly the most basic things).

I had this small switching module that takes 2.8-5.5V as input, and outputs ±12V, which is very useful for op-amps and other circuits, and it was supposed to be used connected to another module; a low-noise, 10x gain differential amplifier.

There were two problems with the board. The first one was that the voltage output itself was a bit noisy. This was to be expected since it is a switching supply with not a lot of filtering at the output stage. I fixed this with 79XX and 78XX regulators and a couple of capacitors.

But the other problem is that the module itself emits a crazy amount of EMI, which was very undesirable, given that this module was going to sit very close to a low-noise amplifier board.

To solve that problem I tried putting the board inside a small tin box, and here's the result:

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I already knew that "tin cans" (or generally speaking; metal shielding) was an effective way of blocking EMI, but I wasn't expecting THIS much of a difference with a repurposed "hand cream sample" tin can Stuck out tongue

I've used "buck-boost" converters and other switching supplies modules in the past. To the point that they have become an essential "tool" to power electronics in my projects, especially when there's a very specific voltage requirement that can't be easily met with a battery pack or power adapter, or when using a linear regulator would dissipate too much heat, or won't be able to take advantage of the full voltage range of the batteries.

But I wasn't aware of how much EMI they can emit. I'm sure as hell going to be placing them all inside metal enclosures if they are going to be sitting next to noise-sensitive electronics or sensors, from now on.

As I always wonder about other people's experiences, I'd love to ask the community if you have ever needed to put a circuit inside a metal-shielded box in order to fix an issue caused by EMI (or to prevent it from ever happening) ?

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  • shabaz
    shabaz 11 months ago +4
    Not a top quality shielding method, but cheap, I've been sanding the ends of aluminium extruded boxes from AliExpress etc. The idea being that the end panels (sanded on the inside) will make the electrical…
  • jc2048
    jc2048 11 months ago +4
    I've used actual tin cans for temporary screening in blogs here on e14. Here's one where I was trying mainly to keep out mains noise, but also a low-level nuisance signal (a sawtooth between 40 and 50kHz…
  • michaelkellett
    michaelkellett 11 months ago +3
    For an example of tin-cannery to the max try: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-1256-most-gorgeous-test-gear-teardown-ever!/ Modern scope and spectrum analysers tend to use multi compartment…
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  • shabaz
    shabaz 11 months ago

    Funnily enough I just bought a new wallet, and it came with a "RFID blocker" claimed feature. I didn't seek that feature particularly, it just happened to have it. But I am curious to give it a try, see how effective it is with NFC with a mobile phone. 

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  • shabaz
    shabaz 11 months ago

    Funnily enough I just bought a new wallet, and it came with a "RFID blocker" claimed feature. I didn't seek that feature particularly, it just happened to have it. But I am curious to give it a try, see how effective it is with NFC with a mobile phone. 

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  • battlecoder
    battlecoder 11 months ago in reply to shabaz

    Even if you don't need it, I truly hope it works and it's not a fake marketing claim. I kinda hate when products are advertised as having a feature or being able to do a thing, that they truly don't.

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  • Jan Cumps
    Jan Cumps 11 months ago in reply to battlecoder

    EEVBlog tested it. 10:12 in the video:

    https://youtu.be/EICbskk-0dM?si=hp3bruAI_y5x3WID&t=612

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  • ntewinkel
    ntewinkel 11 months ago in reply to Jan Cumps

    It works!

    My passport came with an rfid blocking envelope (might’ve been free with the passport photos), and at security they always instructed us to remove the passport from the envelope.

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  • battlecoder
    battlecoder 11 months ago in reply to ntewinkel

    Nice! My last credit card also came in one of those envelopes now that I think of it. Will look for it and test it.

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  • shabaz
    shabaz 11 months ago in reply to battlecoder

    I tested mine, result is "not bad, but not perfect"!

    In all of the inside card pockets, it seems to block successfully (testing with my mobile phone). However, there's an outside pocket, which does block to a large extent, but it is possible to occasionally get the phone to detect it. But practically speaking it would be difficult for anyone to manage that without access to it for more than just briefly.

    This reminds me of a time talking to a sales guy about a product's potential for slightly more sensitive users than just business/industrial. He warned me away from wanting to add NFC to the product features. It didn't matter to him that it's usually short-range. His customers would have immediately told him that's not the product for them!

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  • battlecoder
    battlecoder 11 months ago in reply to shabaz

    I'm getting rather obsessed over RF and electromagnetic fields, so all of this discussion makes me happy :D

    I've played with NFC tags and they are also a very cool technology. Not only they leverage RF data transmission techniques but also wireless power delivery. It's fascinating stuff.

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