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  • Replies 48 replies
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All Testing passed

Former Member
Former Member over 13 years ago

See   http://www.raspberrypi.org/  to see the good news

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  • Former Member
    Former Member over 13 years ago

    I must applaud the inclusion of the multiple certifications for Europe and North America.  At least this will alleviate any possible delays based on testing.

     

    I am curious as to what the "Canadian thing" was that had to be tested?

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  • Former Member
    Former Member over 13 years ago in reply to Former Member

    Kevin,

    I'm not as confident as you seem to be that the testing done so far will

    "alleviate any possible delays based on testing".

     

    The FCC rules, Title 47, section 15.3 "Definitions", paragraph i, say:

    "Class B digital device.   A digital device that is marketed for use in a

    residential environment, notwithstanding use in commercial, business

    and industrial environments.  Examples of such devices include, but

    are not limited to, personal computers, calculators, and similar

    electronic devices that are marketed for use by the general public."

     

    But apparently, Class B testing has not been done, even though the

    RPi is being marketed as a PC for use in residential environments.

     

    There is another section, 15.32 "Test procedures for CPU boards

    and computer power supplies",  but it doesn't seem to have been

    followed, from what we know.  It refers to testing within an enclosure

    with the cover removed.

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  • Former Member
    Former Member over 13 years ago in reply to Montala

    David,

      You are trying to make a distinction between "being ordered by home users" and "being marketed

    to home users".  But the FCC rules define "marketing" as selling or offering to sell, so I don't think

    this is a valid distinction.  Anyway, the RPi promotional videos, such as Quake3 and XBMC are

    clearly aimed at home users rather than industrial. 

     

    If there are any home users, the device is considered Class B.  It doesn't need to be the majority

    or anything like that, although in the case of RPi, I have no doubt that home users will in fact be

    the majority.

     

    You say that compliance testing was carried out by experts, and no doubt that is true.

    I look forward to hearing how they justify Class A testing for the RPi.

     

    For details on the FCC rules, see Bulletin 62 here: http://transition.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Engineering_Technology/Documents/bulletins/oet62/oet62rev.pdf

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  • rew
    rew over 13 years ago in reply to Former Member

    I just scanned the document mentioned, and it lists as exempt: things like digital watches that use less than 6 nanowatts. I find that 6 nanowatts very very little. I measured my 1980ies watch once, and got about 0.3 micro amperes. So about 450 nW. I'm pretty sure that that watch is pretty harmless at that powerlevel even if it would TRY to interfere with radio communications.

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  • morgaine
    morgaine over 13 years ago in reply to rew

    The Foundation certainly promoted the board as an effective media computer, running XBMC and OpenELEC very nicely.  They even had prominent articles about that on their blog, and they also showed it hosting  normal Linux desktop distros and have many times said "It's just standard Linux".  This ensured that the board would attract interest from ordinary consumers worldwide, and hence end up going into normal domestic consumer situations worldwide too, not just into the hands of electrical engineers and radio amateurs who know how to deal with EMC problems.

     

    There can't be the slightest doubt that this was intentional.  They didn't try to restrict the audience for batch #1 to techies only, quite the opposite, so feeling aggrieved when the need for full domestic certification was explained to them was fairly comical.  They ensured that it would have to be so by their promotion.

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  • mahjongg
    mahjongg over 13 years ago in reply to Former Member

    Using ferrite clamps during testing is a common way to indentify which of the cables is radiating. It says absolutely nothing about whether the device passes any tests with or without these clamps. Using them is simply a testing tool.

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  • michaelkellett
    michaelkellett over 13 years ago in reply to mahjongg

    @Martin,

     

    Quite  a lot of devices are shipped with ferrite lumps of different sorts on the cables (I've hade a Cannon camera with one on the USB lead and a network switch with one on the power cable as well as being invloved in product developments where the ferrites were on the cable but inside the box). It's an expensive solution but may the best bet if the cost of a re-design is significant. Of course the device is no longer compliant if a different cable is used and the documentation should reflect this.

     

    Michael Kellett

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  • rew
    rew over 13 years ago in reply to morgaine

    Morgaine Dinova wrote:

    This ensured that the board would attract interest from ordinary consumers worldwide, a....

     

    There can't be the slightest doubt that this was intentional.  They didn't try to restrict the audience for batch #1 to techies only, quite the opposite, so feeling aggrieved when the need for full domestic certification was explained to them was fairly comical.  They ensured that it would have to be so by their promotion.

    Well, I think I tend to believe them that they thought the first batch would not attract end-users. They thought (timeframe: sept 2011) that the software wouldn't be ready and that most people would not want to sink their money in a $35 paperweight until the software would be ready.

     

    In fact, people ARE willing to invest in a nifty paperweight if it probably will be able to work as a computer later on. People ARE willing to bet that it will do what they want within reasonable timeframe. People ARE willing to do this because it only costs $35+shipping+tax.

     

    Let me ask you this way: I have a product here. It'll be useful about half a year from now when we have the software ready. Do you want to buy it now? I expect 95 out of 100 people to sya: no. That's what they expected. In the meanwhile work on the software continued and they showed off their progress on the software front. Fine.

     

    So, due to the software already on its way, due to some demos showing impressive stuff many people have changed their minds and ordered the devices now already. That changes the game a bit.

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  • Ellis
    Ellis over 13 years ago in reply to rew

    By selecting two of the world's largest electronic component distributors to work with them, the Raspberry Pi Foundation have done all they can to target Techies with the first batch.  Had they teamed up with Amazon, whou would, arguably, have been better equipped to handle the volumes of orders and interest, one could, quite reasonably have assumed that they were targetting end-users.

     

    Each of the software demonstrations has been an early version, far from ready for end-users - much like the demonstrations of Windows 8 last year.  You could not claim that the Windows 8 developer tablets given away were for end-users, likewise, it is quite reasonable to consider the iniital release a techie-only prodict.

     

    I can go to B&Q and buy a gas boiler, but it would be illegal for me to fit it myself.

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  • rew
    rew over 13 years ago in reply to morgaine

    Hey. If you don't read the replies / arguments, feel free to shut up instead of just repeating your previous post.

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  • Former Member
    Former Member over 13 years ago in reply to rew

    Roger,  

    You wrote: "Well, I think I tend to believe them that they thought the first batch would not attract end-users."

    You may believe them, but BIS has said this is a consumer device, not a development board,

    and must be tested accordingly.

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  • Former Member
    Former Member over 13 years ago in reply to Ellis

    Ellis,

      Do you have any evidence that Windows 8 developer tablets were not certified for home use?

    The FCC rules consider portable computers to be Class B devices.

     

    There are two issues here that I think are getting confused. 

    The foundation hoped to use a "developer board" exemption to the CE rules,

    but that was denied by BIS. 

     

    The FCC rules don't distinguish techie from non-techie end user,

    they distinguish home use from exclusively industrial.  Even a techie home user

    is considered by the FCC to be a home user subject to Class B

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  • Former Member
    Former Member over 13 years ago in reply to Ellis

    Ellis,

      Do you have any evidence that Windows 8 developer tablets were not certified for home use?

    The FCC rules consider portable computers to be Class B devices.

     

    There are two issues here that I think are getting confused. 

    The foundation hoped to use a "developer board" exemption to the CE rules,

    but that was denied by BIS. 

     

    The FCC rules don't distinguish techie from non-techie end user,

    they distinguish home use from exclusively industrial.  Even a techie home user

    is considered by the FCC to be a home user subject to Class B

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  • Ellis
    Ellis over 13 years ago in reply to Former Member

    Since software and firmware can have a critical effect on the EMC of a device and the O/S was in beta. I suspect that the combination shipped quite possibly had not been tested.

     

    Luckily I am in the EU so the FCC rules do not affect me.  If it must be Class B certified to ship in the USA, hard luck to all the US enthusiasts, you will just have to wait for Revision 2 and I'll get my Raspberry PI sooner.  IIRC one of the goals of the project was to boost programmign and electronic skills amongst UK students.  If other juristictions want to give the UK a head start so be it!

     

    As for the popularity on launch, I think you will find that at least one message board targetting consumers had messages posted by third parties about the new $25 computer, encouraging users to "Order Yours Today" as if it were a limited offer - hardly something the Raspberry Pi Organisation wanted and probably the underlying reason why BIS advised that CE marking was reqiuired.  Incidentally, BIS have no authority to interpret the regulations in conjunction with the facts to determine absolutely whether CE Marking is indeed essential for the first batch.  Only the courts have such authority.

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