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Raspberry Pi Forum RG1 1.8v regulator
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Forum Thread Details
  • Replies 231 replies
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Related

RG1 1.8v regulator

Former Member
Former Member over 13 years ago

Ok, so in a different thread I threatened to remove RG1 and do some current measurements on it's output after seeing those thermal images that show it's not generating any heat...

 

Well, I did it tonight. Some photos here: https://picasaweb.google.com/selsinork/RPi18v

 

The jumper pins in the output let me either just put a jumper on and verify the Pi boots ok, or wire a multimeter in series to get some current readings.

 

The results were interesting to say the least. I had to go back and check I was reading the multimeter correctly, that it wasn't broken etc.

 

On initial power up I see a negative current for a second or so which then reverses to about 0.5mA (yes half a milliamp, that's not a typo) for a few seconds while we get the first sd-card accesses. Once we're booted and sitting at the login prompt the current reading fluctuates from around 0.001mA to maybe 0.04mA. 

 

I'm using the 40mA range on a decent Fluke multimeter, so I've no reason to doubt the results. There's obviously going to be some inaccuracy down at that level due to length of meter leads etc, but the result is fairly clear.  You'll understand why I was checking the meter was working and I was reading it correctly though image

 

 

So from there onto the next test, lets try completely disconnecting RG1 and see if the Pi boots while using the LAN9512 1.8v 'output'.  Yes it does! 

 

I think that's reasonably good indication that jamodio got it spot on, the lan9512 shouldn't be connected to the 1.8v plane and it's heat problems are going to be largely due to supplying current on it's 1.8v filter pin that it was never designed to do.

 

So anyone willing to pull RG1 off a Pi and verify my results ?

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  • Former Member
    Former Member over 13 years ago

    Just to expand on my original observations, the negative current I see on the output of RG1 seems to be due to it outputting 1.79v for a few seconds on initial powerup before stabilising at 1.804v. While the LAN9512 appears to power up at 1.805v and stay there.

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  • Former Member
    Former Member over 13 years ago in reply to Former Member

    My second order of Raspberry Pis arrived earlier in the week. A quick check shows one of them is running slightly warmer than the rest, not too much, I can still hold my finger on the LAN chip. I measure 1837mV at RG1 compared to 1793mV on one of the cooler ones (at idle, unmodified boards). Perhaps the LAN9512 core is running over voltage due to the external source and hence a bit hotter in this case. There may be multiple scenarios depending on components.

    I don't expect it will reduce the life of the chip unless it gets really hot, so I'll leave the rest alone unless LAN chips start dying all over the place.

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  • Former Member
    Former Member over 13 years ago in reply to Former Member

    it is better to use an IR cam

    I'd love one.. I looked at prices. No way can I afford one image

     

    The Fluke 568 IR meter i am having

    Yeah, that's the one I was looking at, it was the only one I could find that gave a good explanation of the D:S relationship and that was what decided me not to bother getting one - my dodgy sensor stuck to the top center of the IC is likely more accurate image

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  • Former Member
    Former Member over 13 years ago in reply to Former Member

    Has anyone found the emissivity coefficients that we should use for the encapsulant on the chip (0.92 has been suggested)?

     

    I've asked a few chip suppliers FAEs and been met with a blank stare!  I guess that's why I still use thermocouples, but they are messy as I always gunk them up with heatsink compound.

     

    Cheers

     

    Pete

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  • Former Member
    Former Member over 13 years ago in reply to Former Member

    Hi

     

    I am using the 0.95e on my Fluke 568 as this is the default one and it is for black plastic

     

    the 568 build in tabel has:

    0.93 paint

    0.95 plastic

    0.93 water

     

    an book i have about IR is having

    0.85 Brick, common

    0.94 Brick, refractory rough

    0.95 electrical tape black plastic

    0.92 Glass

    0.93 lacquer, bakelite

    0.94 paint average oil based

    0.94 paper black

    0.93 rubber

    0.92 tar paper

     

    (I have only listed the values there seems usagbol to this as the list is alot longer..)

     

    So based on this i will say around 0.93-0.95 so a good point will be 0.94e but as other users here is having IR meters and they are very likly fixed at 0.95e so i think it is best to use 0.95 so it is easyer to compire the results there is posted.

     

     

    Thomas

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  • Former Member
    Former Member over 13 years ago in reply to Former Member

    Seems like a good suggestion - as you say at least we can compare results with some confidence, I think the issue on resolution, spot size is also a complicating factor.  From what I understand you will get the average of the spot size so any real hot spots will be averaged away.

     

    I've been trying to find a IR lens that will give 10mm x 15mm as the total field of view.  Interestingly it gets even more complicated when you look at effective touch temperature and we need a gizmo called a "thermesthesiometer probe" but these are not commercially available as far as I have found - if you find one let me know.

     

    NASA (slightly old but the most recent I could find) have suggested that 45C is tolerable (indefinitely) for polished metal with an effective infinite heat capacity, and obviously a very high thermal conductivity, but this does not play well to our circumstances unless we measure less than that.

     

    So I think there are three issue in this thread:

     

    1) Touch temperature concern.

    2) Die temperature and effect on performance.

    3) Effect on functionality of USB? (Circumstances yet to be determined)**.

     

    I have not seen any reports that making the suggested mod fixes anything, I'm sure you will let me know if I've missed it.

     

    As always - comments welcome.

     

    Cheers

     

    Pete

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  • Former Member
    Former Member over 13 years ago in reply to morgaine

    Hey Morgaine,

    As a somewhat related question. . . posible for you to suggest an affordable soldering iron with a small tip-to-grip ratio? Price range around $125 or so? Everything I come across is beaucoup bucks! I have a "hobbiest" iron from Adafruit but don't think it's going to work for me. Since I'm quite interested in this stuff I should invest in something I can use for eons..

    Thanks as always

    Peg

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  • jamodio
    jamodio over 13 years ago in reply to Former Member

    You are in the US right ?

     

    This is one option -> https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10553

     

    This is a better option -> http://www.newark.com/weller/wes51/analog-soldering-station-50w-120v/dp/92C1414?in_merch=Popular%20Soldering%20Stations&in_merch=Popular%20Products&MER=PPSO_N_C_SolderingStations_None

     

    And if you want digital (more expensive) -> http://www.newark.com/weller/wesd51/digital-soldering-station-50w-120v/dp/94C3885?in_merch=Popular%20Soldering%20Stations&in_merch=Popular%20Products&MER=PPSO_N_C_SolderingStations_None

     

    - J

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  • rew
    rew over 13 years ago in reply to Former Member

    Peg,

    Check out Aoyue. http://www.aoyue.com/en/ArticleShow.asp?ArticleID=372

    For a little over $125 you might be able to get a combination station that also does hot-air. I have the just-hot-air station from them. (and the weller)

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  • morgaine
    morgaine over 13 years ago in reply to Former Member

    I don't know of one yet, but I'm definitely in the market for one because under 14X binocular magnification it's really hard to control an iron with a long tip.  Currently looking through jamodio's links.

     

    Addendum:

     

    • The iron that comes with Adafruit's Hakko FX888 Soldering Station seems to be 190mm long without cord, and the tip looks kinda long.
    • Newark's Tech Data Sheet link for the Weller WES51 is currently down for me, I'll check again later.  On Farnell UK, no such model, might be US-only.
    • Weller have a "micro" range WHS-M,  http://uk.farnell.com/weller/whs-m-uk-eu/soldering-staion-40w-230v/dp/1729967 , which looks very small, but I can't see the actual tip length specified.

     

    General comment about Weller pricing ... ouch. image  It's clearly industrial pricing, hard to justify for very occasional use.

     

    Morgaine.

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  • Former Member
    Former Member over 13 years ago in reply to morgaine

    I found other discussions regarding this question. Sorry to have jumped in to the wrong discission. . . I'm going to check into the chinese market. Thanks for the suggestions. I'll let you know what I come across for soldering irons. The "re-work" stations have me confused. . .like what would I ever need a hot air gun for??

    Best,

    Peg

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  • johnbeetem
    johnbeetem over 13 years ago in reply to Former Member

    Peg Wagner wrote:

     

    The "re-work" stations have me confused. . .like what would I ever need a hot air gun for??

    A soldering iron is great for soldering or desoldering a single terminal.  It doesn't work well if you want to heat up multiple terminals simultaneously, such as the two terminals of an SMT resistor.  And if you want to desolder the LAN9512 chip, forget it.  You have to heat up 64 tiny terminals plus a large ground pad under the chip which you can't even touch with the iron.

     

    The right hot air tool makes it possible to desolder these kinds the packages, and resolder all pins at the same time.  But you do need to know what you're doing (which I don't).

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  • johnbeetem
    johnbeetem over 13 years ago in reply to Former Member

    Peg Wagner wrote:

     

    The "re-work" stations have me confused. . .like what would I ever need a hot air gun for??

    A soldering iron is great for soldering or desoldering a single terminal.  It doesn't work well if you want to heat up multiple terminals simultaneously, such as the two terminals of an SMT resistor.  And if you want to desolder the LAN9512 chip, forget it.  You have to heat up 64 tiny terminals plus a large ground pad under the chip which you can't even touch with the iron.

     

    The right hot air tool makes it possible to desolder these kinds the packages, and resolder all pins at the same time.  But you do need to know what you're doing (which I don't).

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