USB discussions getting a bit heated

Those threads are terrible They downplay most of the problems people have encountered and add confusion.

But it's a timebomb waiting to go off...

I guess user Kernel sums it up pretty nicely http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=12097&start=197

 

Frankly even though the Foundation people are not making profit on Raspi, I think it doesn't make them any less responsible for the quality of the device they designed and have been (indirectly) selling.

 

Regardless of the cause (software, power, design) of Pi's problems, they are frustrating to deal with and are likely to cause many to lose interest at some point (even children, or perhaps especially them).

 

Those threads are terrible They downplay most of the problems people have encountered and add confusion.

Thing is, the issues are complex. A lot of the confusion is being caused by people who mostly don't have a grasp of either the hardware or software problems.  Lets face it, with a usb IP block that nobody seems to have much information about, we're all in the dark and what makes it tick may as well be black magic

Still, at this point the Pi really is a development board - there's lots of development happening and various people working on fixing issues. Unfortunately due to all the hype there's lots of them landing in the hands of people who are used to a device that's been in development for years with budgets in the billions and expect everything to 'just work' instantly, instead they have a device that was designed to a strict budget with all the compromises that entails. This was bound to cause some friction.

I suspect the RPF was very much unprepared for the amount of destructive stress testing a couple of hundred thousand users can do in such a short time with devices that were never thought of during the design.

Funny comment, Peg, but I hope the references to 'clueless' weren't misunderstood.

The 'clueless' aren't those who don't know --- the more you know, the more you realize that you don't know, so not knowing is not the defining property.  It's only those who don't wish to know and don't wish to think, or cannot think.

Walking around in the dark is what we all do, but the desire for illumination is what takes us to the nearby planets today, and one day to the stars.  Civilization is all about riding on the shoulders of those who went before, so if you know how to find someone with a light then you're helping to carry that torch forward and build that pyramid of knowledge and capability.

Welcome to the dark.  But as you said so well, we sure know how to find someone with a light.

Morgaine.

Let me clarify the context related to my "clueless" comment.

I have no issue or problems with people that don't have a clue and are asking the right questions and in a proper manner. I've been clueless and I'm clueless in many many things and we all at sometime are "newbies." That's not the issue.

The issue is with a forum where moderators are supposed to, among other things "moderate" some comments so wrong information doesn't get widespread.

In the case of the R-Pi forum if somebody states something like "The chips in the RPi are supposed to run hot, they are designed to operate safely to 120 degrees C," I've not seen any moderator or anybody from RPF to reply to that comment so the clueless person that made it can get un-clueless, or even providing the right information about what is the correct operating temperature range for the R-Pi and its parts.

On the other hand people reporting real problems, and providing valuable information, get bashed, harassed, called names and banned.

This is from where my "clueless" comment came from.

-J

All,

I got a kick out of the clueless thing!! Hope you didn't misunderstand my compliment!

I have learned so much in the last few months - and it's from reading then researching, then doing after you have explained or discussed something. . .

My thanks to you all - keep the light coming

peg

Morgaine. . . I've become a fan of yours...please see my reply to jamodio

Peg Wagner wrote:

 

Morgaine. . . I've become a fan of yours...please see my reply to jamodio

Yay, I have a fan!  I'm not sure what to do now, I've never had one before.

PS. I can't improve on your last line to jamodio --- "keep the light coming".  That's glorious!

One light that stays off is that of the backfeeding usb hubs. If the Pi is powered from the a downstream port of the same hub, wouldn't that basically ensure that the Pi receives the full voltage, and shouldn't it boot normally, besided getting some voltage as well on one of it's usb ports? This would basically just short the main and usb polyfuse on the board. But reading from reports, people say that keyboard and mouse behavour is bad with a hub providing power to it's upstream port. This doesn't make sense.

Considering the power negotiation of usb ports. When you run into issues on a windoze pc, it simply shows a warning message that a device needs more power and should be connected to a self powered hub. Since the driver is not loaded, the device can't start to consume the power it needs. The usb port will keep providing current untill a Polyfuse trips (or some other protection turns on.) On cheap mobo's, they will even provide just one 1Amp fuse for 2 usb ports. It will have a lower resistance under normal operating conditions, and power hungry usb harddisks will work as long as the second usb port isn't badly loaded as well. Maybe it's an idea to improve the price on the Pi2.

I connected my bluetooth to my Mac and I get a power light.  When I connected it to my Pi nothing happened as before but while it was on I checked my voltage and it was 4.89 so at this point I'm not sure.  Any ideas

Cheers

David

David Harrison wrote:

 

I connected my bluetooth to my Mac and I get a power light.  When I connected it to my Pi nothing happened as before but while it was on I checked my voltage and it was 4.89 so at this point I'm not sure.  Any ideas

I don't know anything about bluetooth other than it's wireless and local, but here goes: are you plugging the bluetooth dongle directly into a RasPi USB port or into an externally-powered (self-powered) hub?  Is your 4.89V measured at TP1-TP2 (4.89V should be fine) or at the USB port, i.e., on the USB port side of F1 or F2?

If the dongle requires more than 100mA the voltage drop across F1 or F2 may be too much for the dongle.  Also, the dongle may require even more current when transmitting -- you may only be able to see this on a 'scope.

Just some ideas -- I don't know bluetooth specifics.

David Harrison wrote:

 

I connected my bluetooth to my Mac and I get a power light.  When I connected it to my Pi nothing happened as before but while it was on I checked my voltage and it was 4.89 so at this point I'm not sure.  Any ideas

 

Cheers

David

Not having a Bluetooth ->Pi thinger going myself I can't be definitive, but I do recall a couple of threads on the other forum mentioning compatibility issues with certain Bluetooth devices (possibly regarding Broadcom chipsets, but my memory is rather less than optimal...). Might be worth having a search over there as well as asking here. The way that USB devices try to "negotiate" power over USB is quite complicated too, so it *may* simply fail to initialise because of insufficient current at connection (long story). This wouldn't be obvious with the average multimeter, which isn't sensitive to very quick events. Have you tried connecting via a powered hub (if you have one)?

Sorry I can't be more help.

Edit: - John beat me to it.

Hoping to get my powered usb soon so I can check this out.

Hoping to get my powered usb soon so I can check this out.