Banned... No good deed goes unpunished

Don't let it bother you, Michael.  It's a bit unfortunate that they are totally lacking in any professional ability to handle community relations without going nuclear, but it's their problem, not ours.  Someone will write a book about it one day.

Have to be honest, this is one of the whiniest threads I've read here, populated by people banned from what appears to be a very popular forum with 10 of thousands of members - with how many banned people? Not many it seems, and they all seem to be here crying about it! You really don't do yoursleves any favours with stuff like this. Buck up, pull yourselves together, stop whining over spilled milk (that you probably spilt), and get on with it.

As for the OP's banning - was this a first offence? Judging by some of your comments here, maybe the people in charge over there must be reading here as well...worth considering.

Back to beer now. It's late.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion, Billy. You, me, anybody. On the Foundation's forum you're not permitted to always express it, admittedly, but everyone's entitled.

I don't think you've quite understood what my problem is with the ban... First, no warning or notification. Second, most important, as far as I'm concerned, this wasn't in any way an 'offence' unless you call an attempt to spur someone into responding to a journalist's criticisms an offence. I had nothing to gain from posting it in the first place, I'm not a current RS customer, I have no orders outstanding. I was simply trying to get across that not responding to an article that claims to have asked for a response is a 'bad idea'.   I'd rather not have the spirit and reputation of the Pi sullied from a lack of action on anyone's part.

I would've had no objections to my post being deleted, or even to being asked not to post things like that. But it was the fact that I tried to login to a forum I've contributed extensively to and couldn't all of a sudden.

As I said, 'offence' doesn't describe the post I made.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion, Billy. You, me, anybody. On the Foundation's forum you're not permitted to always express it, admittedly, but everyone's entitled.

I don't think you've quite understood what my problem is with the ban... First, no warning or notification. Second, most important, as far as I'm concerned, this wasn't in any way an 'offence' unless you call an attempt to spur someone into responding to a journalist's criticisms an offence. I had nothing to gain from posting it in the first place, I'm not a current RS customer, I have no orders outstanding. I was simply trying to get across that not responding to an article that claims to have asked for a response is a 'bad idea'.   I'd rather not have the spirit and reputation of the Pi sullied from a lack of action on anyone's part.

I would've had no objections to my post being deleted, or even to being asked not to post things like that. But it was the fact that I tried to login to a forum I've contributed extensively to and couldn't all of a sudden.

As I said, 'offence' doesn't describe the post I made.

@Billy

I believe you've misinterpreted what I said. I was implying that YOU were entitled to _your_ opinion. Thanks for that article, if only because it was relatively interesting, though not particularly relevant to this thread.

What I posted on the RPi forum was not opinion, it was a statement of fact - that there was an article that said what it said, that it stated no response had been received. I guess the only opinion I expressed was that someone ought to respond. I didn't particularly _care_ if they did or not, just that if I were them, I would. I didn't expect to have to defend posting it. What I was hoping was that someone would actually respond to the article, not to my notification of having found it, which they probably still haven't.

As for my not having an objection to the deletion of the post, I still don't and didn't. It's got nothing to do with thinking it would cause trouble, just that once read and dealt with by someone it wouldn't be relevant any more. If I was running the forum (and I have run one), I would consider deleting an offensive/misleading post as part of a warning, if it was appropriate. I certainly wouldn't just throw a ban out without letting the person know why they were banned. In fact, I probably wouldn't even ban someone for swearing unless it really started getting out of hand, and I know some forums that do.

As for Steve... well, if it's the thread I think it is, then _that_ ban was justified. Accusing people of running a scam is libellous and therefore inappropriate behaviour. And anyway, doesn't really matter whether it's a scam or not - the Pi is a good product regardless - buy it or don't.

--

Mike

My jaw has just hit the floor...

Someone from the Foundation (jamesh) responded to the original article trying to do damage control.

Oh, irony, how you mock me

The admin of any company support forum are (unfortunately) free to do as they wish. There is no "community" - it is a democracy free zone. The end user is free only to vote with his or her feet. The admin can do pretty much what they like and if they're really good at photoshopping history then any dissenters will just look like bitter crackpots.

All this jetting around the globe and pressing the flesh at hacker events has the vague whiff of the immaculately dressed but amoral leadership of some banana republic wheeling up at the United Nations. Everybody quietly despises them, but their country is chock-full of some natural resource, so morality goes out of the window.

Perhaps one of the tech blogs that helped create the Cult of Pi in the first place will develop a social conscience and push for reform (to use a political analogy). Or perhaps they'll all continue to turn a blind eye in return for cheap-but-not-very-good hardware.

Let me get this right - you are comparing a couple of volunteers at a charity that's managed to shake up an entire market with an innovative device, to a evil despotic dictator of a banana republic. Consider biscuit taken mate - you need to take a good hard look at what you are saying, and ask youself, am I a few kango's short in the top paddock? Basically, take a chill pill -  just because you didnt have the idea, got banned from their website, or whatever it is that got your goat, doesn't mean they go around poisoning children! Bitter? Just a bit mate - at least, that's what it reads like! nAnd since they are not photoshopping history on THIS forum what you say stays.

Stepping back a little and thinking about the situation as a whole, what surprises me a lot more than the actions of a handful of banners and hatemongers over there (you can't really call them "moderators", since they're not moderating but doing the exact opposite) is that the Pi community at large on that forum puts up with it.

It's not something I really understand.  Don't the majority value open discussion about all related topics as long as it is carried out politely, and cordial relations expressing multiple shades of opinion rather than a harsh police state?

Morgaine Dinova wrote:

 

Stepping back a little and thinking about the situation as a whole, what surprises me a lot more than the actions of a handful of banners and hatemongers over there (you can't really call them "moderators", since they're not moderating but doing the exact opposite) is that the Pi community at large on that forum puts up with it.

I suspect people have twigged that if you want to talk about community issues, RasPi forum is not the place for a long discussion.  RasPi forum in still a great place for some technical issues, and I found it very valuable for getting my Motorola Atrix Lapdock working with RasPi after reading Draw Fustini's 'blog about it here.  Stick to (most) technical topics and keep it technical and you'll probably be OK.  It is what it is.

Billy Thornton wrote:

 

nAnd since they are not photoshopping history on THIS forum what you say stays.

Awkward (but polite) posts get deleted and people who ask legitimate questions get quietly banned. The very existence any real issues is denied for months. What would you call it? It's certainly not "moderation".

The alarm bells started ringing for me when the "concern trolling" policy surfaced. I'd never heard the term and had to look it up! It's just a licence to wave the blue pencil at any and all dissent imo.

I feel that your "couple of volunteers at a charity" have got out of their depth (which could happen to anyone) but is handling the situation (and some it's customers) very poorly. Usually by disappearing off on a jolly somewhere. The public image amongst our free and open source press however is that everythig is absolutely fine and that yes, five minutes after unboxing your Pi (assuming that it ever arrives) you will have a fully functional home cinema / carputer / robot controller / internet radio streamer / home automation controller, etc. and be creating a generation of fully formed school-age programmers at the same time. Hmmm.

If customers are being treated shabbily then it doesn't matter whether the culprit is Microsoft, Google or some charity and if the story gets buried then there is no pressure for the culprits to redeem themselves. And I don't buy the whole fanboy get-out that "It's a development board". Production is in full swing (albeit no thanks to RS) so buggy firmware is unforgiveable. If they couldn't get it to work they should have pulled production after the first run and fixed it. Scratch that, it should have been prototyped properly in the first place.

Continuing to sell sub-optimal hardware with the blessing of some within the "community" prejudices the chances of future small businesses who want to create innovative, open (well. reasonably open) hardware. More crappy, unsupported ARM / Android boards, anyone?

@ John. Beautifully put. Have you ever considered a career as a diplomat?