Banned... No good deed goes unpunished

Don't let it bother you, Michael.  It's a bit unfortunate that they are totally lacking in any professional ability to handle community relations without going nuclear, but it's their problem, not ours.  Someone will write a book about it one day.

Have to be honest, this is one of the whiniest threads I've read here, populated by people banned from what appears to be a very popular forum with 10 of thousands of members - with how many banned people? Not many it seems, and they all seem to be here crying about it! You really don't do yoursleves any favours with stuff like this. Buck up, pull yourselves together, stop whining over spilled milk (that you probably spilt), and get on with it.

As for the OP's banning - was this a first offence? Judging by some of your comments here, maybe the people in charge over there must be reading here as well...worth considering.

Back to beer now. It's late.

Have to be honest, this is one of the whiniest threads I've read here, populated by people banned from what appears to be a very popular forum with 10 of thousands of members - with how many banned people? Not many it seems, and they all seem to be here crying about it! You really don't do yoursleves any favours with stuff like this. Buck up, pull yourselves together, stop whining over spilled milk (that you probably spilt), and get on with it.

As for the OP's banning - was this a first offence? Judging by some of your comments here, maybe the people in charge over there must be reading here as well...worth considering.

Back to beer now. It's late.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion, Billy. You, me, anybody. On the Foundation's forum you're not permitted to always express it, admittedly, but everyone's entitled.

I don't think you've quite understood what my problem is with the ban... First, no warning or notification. Second, most important, as far as I'm concerned, this wasn't in any way an 'offence' unless you call an attempt to spur someone into responding to a journalist's criticisms an offence. I had nothing to gain from posting it in the first place, I'm not a current RS customer, I have no orders outstanding. I was simply trying to get across that not responding to an article that claims to have asked for a response is a 'bad idea'.   I'd rather not have the spirit and reputation of the Pi sullied from a lack of action on anyone's part.

I would've had no objections to my post being deleted, or even to being asked not to post things like that. But it was the fact that I tried to login to a forum I've contributed extensively to and couldn't all of a sudden.

As I said, 'offence' doesn't describe the post I made.

@Billy

I believe you've misinterpreted what I said. I was implying that YOU were entitled to _your_ opinion. Thanks for that article, if only because it was relatively interesting, though not particularly relevant to this thread.

What I posted on the RPi forum was not opinion, it was a statement of fact - that there was an article that said what it said, that it stated no response had been received. I guess the only opinion I expressed was that someone ought to respond. I didn't particularly _care_ if they did or not, just that if I were them, I would. I didn't expect to have to defend posting it. What I was hoping was that someone would actually respond to the article, not to my notification of having found it, which they probably still haven't.

As for my not having an objection to the deletion of the post, I still don't and didn't. It's got nothing to do with thinking it would cause trouble, just that once read and dealt with by someone it wouldn't be relevant any more. If I was running the forum (and I have run one), I would consider deleting an offensive/misleading post as part of a warning, if it was appropriate. I certainly wouldn't just throw a ban out without letting the person know why they were banned. In fact, I probably wouldn't even ban someone for swearing unless it really started getting out of hand, and I know some forums that do.

As for Steve... well, if it's the thread I think it is, then _that_ ban was justified. Accusing people of running a scam is libellous and therefore inappropriate behaviour. And anyway, doesn't really matter whether it's a scam or not - the Pi is a good product regardless - buy it or don't.

--

Mike

Billy Thornton wrote:

 

... with how many banned people? Not many it seems, and they all seem to be here crying about it!

 

As for the OP's banning - was this a first offence? Judging by some of your comments here, maybe the people in charge over there must be reading here as well...worth considering.

Oh yes, the RasPowersThatBe definitely follow element14.  That's a good thing, since we do helpful things for RasPi like discovering and analyzing the effect of shorting together 1.8V regulators.  My opinion is that site operators do have the privilege of banning people from their site for misbehaviour at their site, but it's bad manners to ban people for behaviour not at their site.  I've managed to avoid being banned from chez RasPi -- with over 700 comments there

I would say very few "banned from chez RasPi" are active at element14.  However, we do read that lots of banning goes on at RasPi, with classical music playing in the background.

My jaw has just hit the floor...

Someone from the Foundation (jamesh) responded to the original article trying to do damage control.

Oh, irony, how you mock me

@JB Where do you read that lots of people get banned at the Raspberry Pi forum? My 'impression' is that it seems quite rare, since they leave up quite a few posts I would expect to get deleted straight away, and I'd wanna ban and delete stuff. Has anyone ever asked them what the percentage is? I guess that figure would be kept private, so how can anyone outside the Foundation (including presumably the people you've read about) know what the actual figure is? And also, since on forums I frequent, banning include that for spamming (and there is a lot of that) what the percentage of bans through bad behaviour vs general spamming?

Lets say, 100 people have been banned for being naughty - that seems an over estimate to me given how I think the moderation seems to go there. Let's say they have 35k members, ISTR mentioned 30K a while  back, assuming a slight increase since then, then  that about 0.3%  of their traffic. Not a particularly high percentage, about the same are real life arsehole you meet on the street. Actually probably less than that.

Let's say there are ten people here who have been banned from the site, thats 10% of the total banned people. So this site has 30 times more percentage wise of banned people from the RaspberryPi site than the actual RaspberryPi site does!

The admin of any company support forum are (unfortunately) free to do as they wish. There is no "community" - it is a democracy free zone. The end user is free only to vote with his or her feet. The admin can do pretty much what they like and if they're really good at photoshopping history then any dissenters will just look like bitter crackpots.

All this jetting around the globe and pressing the flesh at hacker events has the vague whiff of the immaculately dressed but amoral leadership of some banana republic wheeling up at the United Nations. Everybody quietly despises them, but their country is chock-full of some natural resource, so morality goes out of the window.

Perhaps one of the tech blogs that helped create the Cult of Pi in the first place will develop a social conscience and push for reform (to use a political analogy). Or perhaps they'll all continue to turn a blind eye in return for cheap-but-not-very-good hardware.

Let me get this right - you are comparing a couple of volunteers at a charity that's managed to shake up an entire market with an innovative device, to a evil despotic dictator of a banana republic. Consider biscuit taken mate - you need to take a good hard look at what you are saying, and ask youself, am I a few kango's short in the top paddock? Basically, take a chill pill -  just because you didnt have the idea, got banned from their website, or whatever it is that got your goat, doesn't mean they go around poisoning children! Bitter? Just a bit mate - at least, that's what it reads like! nAnd since they are not photoshopping history on THIS forum what you say stays.

Stepping back a little and thinking about the situation as a whole, what surprises me a lot more than the actions of a handful of banners and hatemongers over there (you can't really call them "moderators", since they're not moderating but doing the exact opposite) is that the Pi community at large on that forum puts up with it.

It's not something I really understand.  Don't the majority value open discussion about all related topics as long as it is carried out politely, and cordial relations expressing multiple shades of opinion rather than a harsh police state?

Billy Thornton wrote:

 

@JB Where do you read that lots of people get banned at the Raspberry Pi forum? My 'impression' is that it seems quite rare, since they leave up quite a few posts I would expect to get deleted straight away...

I don't know how long you've been a RasPi forum member.  I'm ten days away from my one year anniversary, so I've been reading the forum for a long time.  I haven't read a single item anywhere about how many are banished -- I've just accumulated an impression over the last year by reading "OK, you're banned" comments from admins and moderators.  Many of those bannings are justified IMO -- you do get people who persist in being unhelpful.  But I've also seen many bannings I don't consider justified, and I've seen threads locked just when they started to get interesting.

I'm not going to attempt to estimate an actual number.  Since I usually avoid controversial threads these days -- they tend to duplicate threads already discussed -- I suspect that I'd underestimate the number of banishments rather than overestimate.

I think the success of RasPi depends on having a healthy community, and IMO impressions do count.  Here are some of my impressions:

I have to be very careful what I say chez RasPi, particularly when responding to a moderator.  I fear saying something the wrong way could easily get me banned.  This is not a good way to get open discussion.

Admins and moderators are too often rude.  I understand that they have to deal with a lot of garbage including rude e-mail we don't see, so I sympathize.  But admins and moderators set the tone for the community, and should always set a good example.

One admin in particular has had what is IMO a peculiar understanding of the term "concern troll".  So I get the impression that any criticism of RasPi or how it's managed is very likely going to get one banned.  I suspect others may feel the same way, so helpful comments get unsaid.

JMO/YMMV