I just finished watching the latest episode of Picard so I feel like using a space analogy.

If this RoadTest were a moon, it is currently not orbiting the planet (i.e. technology) I am delving into.

As shabaz alluded to in his post doesn't plug into or interface with technology I am currently playing with. It would require a major mental shift, to shelve what I am working on to take up the project.

I think it also came at a bad time because of competing RoadTest that do fall into my technology road house.

I did read it and do some brain storming but couldn't find the time to commit. To fully understand it would have take some additional time to develop.

Hello,

I wanted to add my two cents even though I've been missing in action for long while now.

Speaking for myself and I think it has been brought up before is the issue of return on investment (ROI). For a kit like this the ROI is very now, but that not the whole issue. I have spent hours on small kits like this to ensure I give the best possible review. I often deal with the company behind the review to resolve issue and help give a better explanation of the product and its issues. I did this recently with the NXP motor Controller I reviewed.

For me the real issue comes with the lack of acknowledgment and progression with a kit like this. When I first started doing roadtests I was happy to just get selected with the idea that I would eventually graduate to bigger better and more interesting kits and even equipment. The concept of show what you can do and then you will be rewarded was how thought of this whole endeavor. This is not to say learning is not part of the adventure, but that learning bigger and more complex products would be in store after showing you can learn and review the smaller ones.

This never really happened. I've applied to a number of the larger more interesting roadtests but never seem to come out on top. Instead I see people selected that seem to only apply to these larger more complex and valuable roadtests winning. The idea then became, why give so much to a community that seems to only reward those that only enter for the good stuff and not those that put in a lot of efforts for the smaller stuff and are willing to start from the bottom. It was the same reason I disliked the "top member" concept, there are a lot of people that contribute here and help out but it seems there was an inner circle that you could not get into even with a  lot of dedication if someone on top felt you were not worthy.

In short, I stopped applying because I felt in some ways like the sucker taking the easy to get stuff and working twice as hard to get a decent review only to be passed over when it came to the more advanced and somewhat interesting gear.

That's my 2 cents

Kas

I'm sorry I disagree.

To eliminate the top members from entering is a disservice to the vendors that provides products to evaluate. Those top members have earned their place. The quality and quantity of output is impressive. Restricting them from competing not only hurts the vendor but me also. I want to learn and maybe someday earn the privilege of the title of top member.

It is unfortunate that choosing to entering the competition arena is based on the chance of success. I can't accept not applying because others are to good. I don't see an reason to level the RoadTest playing field because it is already level.

Sorry, I do not get this comment in relation to the question at hand? The topic is the following:

Why Wasn't There More Interest: Silicon Labs Bluetooth Design Kit

More to the point, I am in this group and do not have the experience to apply. But if I wasn't busy all ready,

I do believe this would have made a good alternative choice.

station240

I'm not sure how your comment relates to mine. I in no way suggested removing top members from applying.

What I did recommend was looking at making things feel less clique and having people apply to ALL levels of roatest. When you see members winning big ticket roadtests but which have a good ROI, ($4000+ for a few hours work) yet rarely applying to small items ($20 for many hours) it leaves members dishartend.

When I first started I understood from the community and from the original admins that you need to prove yourself with the small items first. But here I see to much of the items with a good ROI going to the same people without them doing low ROI roadtests. I will says it also not encouraging when a member has won 2 or more of the same equipment that they clearly already had. And yes I know this is not how to build your lab, its a product review but it's nice to see some real comradery and decency from those members who do step back when they know they could do a great review but feel others could benefit from the roadtest being presented.

Kas

clem57,

I'm not sure about your comment regarding not having the experience to apply. Could I ask you to clarify.

I always felt we're not experts in everything and stepping out and spending time learning new things and reviewing things gives an even better review for a company as they get to see how it's viewed from those without the intuitive insiders information.

Kas

RoadTest applications are purely voluntary - if you want a shot in it, you enter. If you don't, that's fine too.

Doing a few lower-value RoadTests is a way to build up credibility and a portfolio, but I don't see why one would continue along that path unless it was something they were interested in. Even if you've taken the time to apply and are awarded the RoadTest, you could always decline if you don't feel like it's worth the time. Nobody's forcing anyone to do a low-value (to them) RoadTest, likewise, nobody is claiming that in exchange for high-value RoadTests, one must continually complete low-value RoadTests. Some RoadTests have very few applicants as a result, and this reflects the lack of appeal to a wider audience, but it has always been the case that you should only apply to a RoadTest if you are interested and have an idea of how you would test a given item.

As for big ticket items, I'm glad you think that it only takes a "few hours" work to spin up a review of a complex instrument which might require everything in the manner of creating visual assets, bespoke connection adapters, procuring niche parts, designing test circuits, running tests/validation in different scenarios, co-coordinating other equipment, repeating experiments when things don't work out, coming to grips with manufacturer's software/firmware, plenty of data analysis and in all probability, results in the discovery of functionality issues that requires many back-and-forth contacts with the manufacturer. Sure, the "low-value" item requires "many" (as you put it) hours ... I know some definitely do, but most of the less-valuable items also perform fewer functions and shouldn't require as much in the way of testing. None of my past five reviews have needed any less than 120 hours of my time ... some closer to 180+ hours, but for the most part, this is something I enjoy which is why I put my all into it.

To write a credible and useful review requires some level of experience. Would you trust a review of an item from someone who has never used one before and has nothing to compare it with? The sponsors are involved in the selection (as far as I'm aware, they have the final say) and it is likely that at least some of them are aiming for a comparison review, where someone with experience is comparing their product with a competitor's product, so they can communicate insights that the company could not themselves credibly say. If your proposal doesn't offer more of what the sponsor wants, then I can't say you have a good chance. There is definitely value in having members have more than one model of a given sort of device especially for providing the possibility to do a comparison review.

Nothing is a given in the RoadTest program - it's not a program to "build your lab", it is a side effect that might happen but is not something anyone should be counting on. As the sponsor has the final say, I'd argue that the selection is performed on merit of applications in terms of value provided to them. It's unlikely they know who you are, and it's unlikely they're making choices deliberately to discourage RoadTesters ...

- Gough

and for all you said you might be 100% correct, but what you have written is exactly why the community wont grow. When enough people feel sidelined eventually your reviews and feedback loses its diversity. Companies realize they are building a product for one guy in a lab that no one in the real world wants cares about.

You can run your one man show, and keep defending it as you always do, and your superiority complex doesn't help the community either, but in the end there is no diversity, there will be loss of interest and eventually the walls along with the rest of the house will come crashing down

Kas

I think some of your responses to Gough are, to put it mildly, somewhat intemperate.

You can disagree with him (and me) without being rude.

Actually I think Gough's post is pretty much spot on - to do a decent review of a serious bit of equipment takes a lot of effort and requires experience both in reviewing and engineering.

I've rather given up on applying for road tests because I don't like the terms and conditions, and also because the value for money aspect to the reviewer is between marginal and negative - take the current "big ticket" road test of the Keithley Source meter - three weeks (120 hours) spent on doing a comprehensive review would be charged to a customer at between £4k and £8k (not a quote - kind of a UK contracting average) - the instrument costs £4700 but for a business can be offset against tax, so it costs about £3500 in real money (and I might get a discount), so even at the lowest commercial rates it's cheaper just to buy one and get on with work. Only if you have no work or do it for non commercial reasons does it make sense to put the effort in.

I'm grateful to road testers like Gough (and others) who do a professional job and whom I've found to be friendly and supportive when asked for more information or clarification.

MK

Your perceptions are necessarily reality.

I to take exception to your comments that appear to be personal and targeted at Gough.

My acknowledgement to MK for his response to your post.

colporteur  wrote:

Those top members have earned their place. The quality and quantity of output is impressive.

 

I don't see an reason to level the RoadTest playing field because it is already level.

I've no doubt other members could produce an impressive quality and quantity of Roadtest reviews if they had to near automatic approval "Top Members" get around here.

Go look at 'in progress' and completed roadtests, see who actually got the kit, and how long they have been on this website.

There is always a limited amount of kit, lets say it's 4, if two Top Members immediately state they want this (which happens a lot around here), then we know it's now 100% harder for others to get to try it.

I suggest SOME Roadtests for those who aren't 'Top Members' and they all throw a major dummy spit. Too used to getting anything they ask for huh ?

Anyway all your talk about Top members "earned their place" "privilege" and "title" makes you sound like a major snob, Whatever it's your choice, I just don't see it as a desirable human trait.

People (including non-TMs and TMs) all offered help if you wanted it, to write applications.

Here are some recent RoadTests:

Weller Solder Station - Five units, all non-TM roadtesters

Digilent OpenLogger - Five units, four non-TMs

Project14 RF Project - Four top prizes (Spectrum analyzer and portable 'scopes) - all non-TMs.

TM status does not make as much difference in the way you think it does. Non-TMs can deliver just as good or better reviews anyway. I'm fairly sure there's a few questions in the RoadTest applications specifically for the aim (it seems to me) to seek out non-technical-equipment-related qualities like reliability etc.

This specific BLE roadtest may or may not be interesting to you, but many of us have done several BLE-related roadtests or other wireless tech, and worked around equipment limitations, it's sometimes possible to find ways to test indirectly. Semiconductor manufacturers used sunshine from the window, needle dials and mirrors on the wall when they couldn't get access to high-end multimeters. BLE just requires a PC pretty much.. at least for a significant chunk of the interesting parts of BLE.

Even if BLE is not relevant to your immediate work, maybe it's useful to learn at some stage. I've mentioned elsewhere that I got a (decent) job offer purely as a result of an element14 BLE project, although I didn't take it in the end. It's an in-demand topic.

I like at least exploring, or applying to niche RoadTests when they appear, because if it results in something useful, then that's great, and even if it doesn't, it could result in a bit of info that may turn out useful to solve an unexpected problem in the future. I understand that's not an approach for everyone - everyone is different.

People (including non-TMs and TMs) all offered help if you wanted it, to write applications.

Here are some recent RoadTests:

Weller Solder Station - Five units, all non-TM roadtesters

Digilent OpenLogger - Five units, four non-TMs

Project14 RF Project - Four top prizes (Spectrum analyzer and portable 'scopes) - all non-TMs.

TM status does not make as much difference in the way you think it does. Non-TMs can deliver just as good or better reviews anyway. I'm fairly sure there's a few questions in the RoadTest applications specifically for the aim (it seems to me) to seek out non-technical-equipment-related qualities like reliability etc.

This specific BLE roadtest may or may not be interesting to you, but many of us have done several BLE-related roadtests or other wireless tech, and worked around equipment limitations, it's sometimes possible to find ways to test indirectly. Semiconductor manufacturers used sunshine from the window, needle dials and mirrors on the wall when they couldn't get access to high-end multimeters. BLE just requires a PC pretty much.. at least for a significant chunk of the interesting parts of BLE.

Even if BLE is not relevant to your immediate work, maybe it's useful to learn at some stage. I've mentioned elsewhere that I got a (decent) job offer purely as a result of an element14 BLE project, although I didn't take it in the end. It's an in-demand topic.

I like at least exploring, or applying to niche RoadTests when they appear, because if it results in something useful, then that's great, and even if it doesn't, it could result in a bit of info that may turn out useful to solve an unexpected problem in the future. I understand that's not an approach for everyone - everyone is different.

shabaz  wrote:

 

People (including non-TMs and TMs) all offered help if you wanted it, to write applications.

Here are some recent RoadTests:

 

Weller Solder Station - Five units, all non-TM roadtesters

Digilent OpenLogger - Five units, four non-TMs

Project14 RF Project - Four top prizes (Spectrum analyzer and portable 'scopes) - all non-TMs.

Weller Soldering Station -, not much interest to me, someone else can have it.

Digilent OpenLogger - want to roadtest this, but wasn't a good time

Project14 RF Project - Did enter this and all the other open contests around the same time, got absolutely nothing.

Here is the sort of kit I want to roadtest.

Infineon Gate Driver with Truly Differential Input

Couldn't apply as I don't have the Oscilloscope needed to evaluate it, there is not point asking for help with writing applications, when I can't test the kit anyway.

Come on - it's less than $100 to pick up an oscilloscope, used. I bought a new USB one for just over £100 GBP.

Prior to that, I had a 60 MHz cathode ray 'scope. I gave that away to an element14 colleague.

If there's the slightest bit of professionalism, you'll make an effort to acquire your own test gear.

There is NO used test equipment in Australia, EEVBlog knows that also.

Any cheap new stuff would be direct from China, of unknown calibration, and delayed anyway due to CoV 19.

I made a very big effort to get a somewhat expensive Oscilloscope, some unprofessional jerks didn't pay me for 6 months work, so that money all got spent on bills.

There is no one to hand me down anything I might need, I have to fight tooth and nail for everything around here.

This is why I'm so fed up with everyone at the moment.

Well station240, as a fellow Aussie - I do have a Rigol DS1102E 100Mhz dual-channel DSO with original probes and power cable sitting about from my PhD days (~ 6 years old). It's what I would consider an entry-level 8-bit scope with no bells and whistles - but I'm willing to part with it if you're willing to send me AU$20 to cover the postage. All I ask is that you'll give it a good home and use it responsibly.

It won't solve the issue of not being high end, of being "from China" and being "of unknown calibration", but it might be better than nothing. PM me (or reply) if you're interested.

- Gough

EDIT: Just tested it, seems to be working fine. Ran self-calibration, completed with no errors. Firmware upgraded to latest - even packed it nicely in a box. Even found the original USB-cable and calibration certificate from 2012.

If you want it and you get your physical address to me within a day or two, I will post it out right away, before I fly out on my one-month holiday, otherwise it could be a while before it gets to you ...

station240  wrote:

 

There is NO used test equipment in Australia, EEVBlog knows that also.

Any cheap new stuff would be direct from China, of unknown calibration, and delayed anyway due to CoV 19.

 

I made a very big effort to get a somewhat expensive Oscilloscope, some unprofessional jerks didn't pay me for 6 months work, so that money all got spent on bills.

There is no one to hand me down anything I might need, I have to fight tooth and nail for everything around here.

This is why I'm so fed up with everyone at the moment.

So use your initiative. I'm not going to hand-hold you further, you've taken up enough of my time today, and I've made several suggestions, yet you continue to complain that the stuff you're interested in, you don't have test equipment for.

EEVblog may help you for country-specific information. I don't live in Australia, but I have visited labs there, and they certainly used test equipment.

Scope has been claimed. Posting out tomorrow, packed under a mountain of bubble wrap in a sturdy box marked "Not a Keithley Product" . Safe travels ...

- Gough

- Rigol, now, is going as good as others in hardware, but software part is PASS grade, just OK in my candidate shopping list.

- Nothing to complain about, since each member starts from zero.

- Roadtest is not easy, into which much effort shall be put. Not having enough time, I am still not satisfied with some of my previous report.

Your blog is very informative.  I happen to have some experience with large power generator up to several hundred MW, if there is some e-puzzle to solve, maybe I figure it out.

I completely agree, I am a new member, I can see a lot of members in the community with many years of experience, I thought I didn't have a chance to review some products but I was selected to review the Weller WT1 which was a great roadtest.