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Should you have to pay to opt-in to a RoadTest ?

cstanton

"No"

Is probably what's already on your fingers ready to type in reply, and that's fine.

Each year I took part in "Reddit Secret Santa", where you're matched against another person, who you find information about, and send them a secret santa gift for Christmas.

Someone matches with you, and you hope that they will send you something, after all, they signed up for the Secret Santa.

A few years in a row, I was 'shafted' and wasn't sent anything, sometimes in these cases, you're matched up with a new Secret Santa and then sent something, unfortunately that didn't happen either.

This caused a bit of an uproar in Reddit, while people were happy if they got anything and knew they weren't necessarily entitled to anything, they felt that it wasn't quite in the spirit of things.

So along came the idea of becoming an 'Elf'. You paid $5 to enter the Reddit Secret Santa, and that put you against other people who had also paid $5, the idea being because you'd all invested a base amount in it, you're more inclined to make sure that the person you're matched with will get a present, and you yourself will get a present, and you're supporting Reddit at the same time. Everyone wins and you're invested in it.

This pretty much worked for Reddit, paying into something seems to 'click' with people that you want to be with others, so you're paying the 'premium' to get into that rather than anyone who can sign up and looking for a freebie without paying it forward. A bit capitalist but some people like to support things.

There are other mechanisms that they use for reputation with Secret Santa, when you successfully enter a Secret Santa you gain a token, you gain another token for sending off your 'Parcel', and you gain another token for marking your parcel as received, and you gain another token when your Secret Santee receives your Parcel. You can then 'spend' these tokens to enter another Reddit Secret Santa. Don't do these? Well, you don't get your tokens. Though even this has mechanisms where "what if you just create another account?" and "how do you get tokens if you want to redeem yourself?" - I'm sure some vetting and mechanism is involved there, too, but ultimately there's also weight to paying to opt-in with like-minded people.

Which puts the thought of "Should you have to pay to opt-in to a RoadTest" ?

We've had members over the years that receive equipment, and they run off with it and don't do a RoadTest. This harms the Community, and it harms the suppliers when they provide the hardware (especially if it's early access hardware).

How would this work? I'm not entirely sure.

Would you have to pay-in to apply to the RoadTest?

Would you only pay-in when you're chosen to write the RoadTest review (so before you receive the hardware), would it be a deposit?

Which is reimbursed when you've wrote the RoadTest Review? (I think I'd prefer the deposit idea out of any of these).

Would we only do this for RoadTest kit over a certain value?

We have no plans whatsoever at implementing anything like this, this's the first time I've brought it up to anyone (including to the Community team itself), it's simply a thought passing my mind. We also don't intend on implementing this from any outcome of this conversation - though if I could at least do the 'token/points' system, I'd consider that, handling money is dangerous, but accountability matters.

But perhaps a bit of reflection on the fact that we don't do this will give some people who consider a RoadTest pause for thought.

Thanks to all members of the Community that enters a RoadTest and writes your RoadTest reviews, and those who keep applying for a RoadTest even if you aren't chosen for that particular item. We appreciate you.

Parents

  • Hello!

    As a new member I am still amazed by the generosity of e14 - valuable equipment is given for writing short articles. On the other side I understand that returning tested items after the test is costly and problematic - item is not in "new" condition, can be damaged, so reselling it by E14 is not so simple.

    So - how to limit the chance of fraud in the process? I think that pay-in scheme (when pay-in amount would be proportional to item's price) would make harm to the program - how many good reviews are you getting now from - for example - students or people based in lower-income countries? Those would have more difficulty in participating, even if up-front charge would be eventually returned.

    But - maybe some reputation system would work? E14 organizes many challenges, so maybe people wanting to do road-test should first prove themselves in competitions not requiring up-front investment from E14? So - maybe something like:

    - complete some quizzes in area connected with tested item (to check if somebody is capable of testing given item - some tests are for highly specialized hardware - and has invested some time into the account)

    - optionally: post something in Project14 (that will check writing skills also) - or (as some people that would be great review-writers would prefer not to create their own projects) participate in another road-test (but for low value item)

    Maybe separating road-tests into different levels: cheap items for all, expensive for experienced/proven review-writers? And put many more road-tests for low value items (so the users would have a chance to prove themselves and participate in testing of more valuable items)?

    As a side note - I am not participating in road-test program for now - I think that writing good review for items I have seen in ongoing road-tests is beyond my skill today, so please take my opinion with a grain of salt...

Reply

  • Hello!

    As a new member I am still amazed by the generosity of e14 - valuable equipment is given for writing short articles. On the other side I understand that returning tested items after the test is costly and problematic - item is not in "new" condition, can be damaged, so reselling it by E14 is not so simple.

    So - how to limit the chance of fraud in the process? I think that pay-in scheme (when pay-in amount would be proportional to item's price) would make harm to the program - how many good reviews are you getting now from - for example - students or people based in lower-income countries? Those would have more difficulty in participating, even if up-front charge would be eventually returned.

    But - maybe some reputation system would work? E14 organizes many challenges, so maybe people wanting to do road-test should first prove themselves in competitions not requiring up-front investment from E14? So - maybe something like:

    - complete some quizzes in area connected with tested item (to check if somebody is capable of testing given item - some tests are for highly specialized hardware - and has invested some time into the account)

    - optionally: post something in Project14 (that will check writing skills also) - or (as some people that would be great review-writers would prefer not to create their own projects) participate in another road-test (but for low value item)

    Maybe separating road-tests into different levels: cheap items for all, expensive for experienced/proven review-writers? And put many more road-tests for low value items (so the users would have a chance to prove themselves and participate in testing of more valuable items)?

    As a side note - I am not participating in road-test program for now - I think that writing good review for items I have seen in ongoing road-tests is beyond my skill today, so please take my opinion with a grain of salt...

Children
  • in reply to JWx

    I liked your ideas, I agree with you.

  • in reply to JWx

    This “qualifying out because of no skill” crops up a lot.  It is as valid to apply for a roadtest from a “how would a novice new to the technology be supported and get to grips with it” perspective as an any application from an experienced member.  I’ve been successful with that approach before - it depends as much what the product supplier wants as much as anything.  You need to be realistic though: it’s unlikely to work for a specialised £15,000 oscilloscope!  Sometimes it’s just the fear of being seen as a charlatan that puts people off (imposter syndrome) but I’ve not seen anyone being called out on that basis before, ever.  In fact, one of the points regularly made is that you can, perfectly legitimately, call out for help in the forums for help if you get stuck on a particular aspect.

    I say: gird your loins and go for it, you’ll almost certainly surprise yourself on what you DO know!

  • in reply to JWx

    Good ideas, how about hobbyist level Road Tests, and professional level RoadTest ? 

  • in reply to robogary

    Somehow, I feel that we had something sort of related (in part) before in two forms - RoadTest by Invitation and RoadTest Plus. It seems the idea didn't stick either.

    An example of RoadTest by Invitation - /products/roadtest/rt/roadtests/36/knipex_self_adjustin#pifragment-4106=9&pifragment-4100=4

    An example of RoadTest Plus - /products/roadtest/rt/roadtests/421/the_internet_of_holi#pifragment-4106=9&pifragment-4100=4

    While not exactly what you propose, it seems RoadTest by Invitation is a specific manufacturer-chooses situation. Whereas a RoadTest Plus is perhaps a more challenging one but with additional rewards (hybrid design challenge).

    More modern RoadTests seem to have a "pitch" which states the intended audience/test alignment which allows one to judge the level on their own ... but I guess this is where it's hard to draw a line as many of us are both professionals and hobbyists ... which is why we're here!

    - Gough

  • in reply to Andrew J

    And what you can learn on the journey...

  • in reply to Andrew J

    We often hear this aphorism being quoted "Time Is Money". And indeed it is, whether it's time spent at work earning a wage or it's the opportunity cost lost because something else could have been done in that time frame. We all place a value on our time spent doing something or in allocating time in a schedule to do something.

    So when a supplier launches a new innovative product it should be expected that few will have the skill to learn how to use that product within the allotted time frame, let alone create a meaningful road test that matches their proposal. It's one reason I do road tests (and read them) is that it gives structure to working out if a new product will do what it says it can do.

    As you say this is where "imposter syndrome" plays a significant role... i.e. feeling you're not up to the job, even though 90% of engineers would be in the same boat if they had to try and use the product too. There are, of course, plenty reasons for this like marketing taking precedence over technical detail - the goal of any company is to sell more product so why wait until it's perfect etc.

    This then comes back to making sure we let others know that we are having problems and to ask questions, even if they are seen as stupid questions. A hard one to do when reputation is at stake. As Doug commented "it's all about the journey".

    Now whether one can then find more time in a busy schedule to complete something that has taken longer than expected or the road test started at a later date than expected is of course another issue altogether.

  • in reply to Gough Lui
    Gough Lui said:
    While not exactly what you propose, it seems RoadTest by Invitation is a specific manufacturer-chooses situation. Whereas a RoadTest Plus is perhaps a more challenging one but with additional rewards (hybrid design challenge).

    Not far off the truth, it can also be a situation of "we're experimenting with how RoadTests function, so we'll try this idea", and this changes over the years with different community staff.