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3D Printing Forum CNC servo control
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Related

CNC servo control

antiobsolescenttoymaker
antiobsolescenttoymaker over 8 years ago

can anyone point me in the right direction?

I recently picked up a nice biotech xyz table.

I've confirmed that the components themselves work but want to convert it into a CNC router / 3D printer.

The table uses med size DC servo motors for all movement and has the original PSU.

I have looked all over and have yet to find an arduino based solution for a servo CNC

image

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  • balearicdynamics
    balearicdynamics over 8 years ago +4
    Hello Genesis, I think you should be aware that it is not useful a 3D printer + CNC on the same machine. First you should define better your problem and your target, please else it is very difficult to…
  • Robert Peter Oakes
    Robert Peter Oakes over 8 years ago +3
    Your biggest problem is you dont appear to have a suitable "Servo Controller", many of the new "Servo Motors" have a controller built in and will accept step and direction signals in the same way as a…
  • michaelkellett
    michaelkellett over 8 years ago in reply to antiobsolescenttoymaker +2
    Generally speaking the processors you are talking about are not the first (or second or third) choice for linear motor control. TI make suitable processors and low cost dev boards and also publish a lot…
  • balearicdynamics
    balearicdynamics over 8 years ago

    Hello Genesis,

     

    I think you should be aware that it is not useful a 3D printer + CNC on the same machine. First you should define better your problem and your target, please else it is very difficult to help you. In a general vision with the information you provided I can confirm the following:

     

    • Arduino is a board that can be used to control CNC and/or 3D printers. Most of the DIY 3D printers uses an Arduino.
    • Ardui can just execute the code - g-code - sent by a more advanced software that can generate it starting from the 3D model; SLT file (usually) for the 3D printing and a 3D CAD source in the CNC case.
    • 3D printing works with the exactly opposite logid of the CNC: the first add material (filament) to a base creating a solid 3D object layer by layer while the second to exactly the opposite: remove material creating 3D objects.

    Take in account that the g-code is a standard. If you explain better what kind of Arduino board you have or you plan to have I can give you more information.

     

    Important note: as the stepper motors needs different power the Arduino board should be interfaced with a number of motor controllers to manage the movements.

     

    Then consider that the 3D printer also has an Extruder that is a mix of heating system (the filament extrusion block with the nozzle) and the stepper motor to drive the filament. So to the motor controllers Arduino in this case will control also a temperature thermocouple to keep the nozzle heating constant at the correct value depending by the kind of filament you are using.

     

    With this scenario in mind, I suggest you depict better what do you need exactly. I think that your best - and cheaper solution is NOT to buy a bare Arduino but at a similar price one of those Arduino board clones adapted to manage stepper motors and extruder (in the case of the 3D printer) or the stepper motors and the shaft in the case of a CNC machine.

     

    Enrico

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  • antiobsolescenttoymaker
    antiobsolescenttoymaker over 8 years ago in reply to balearicdynamics

    currently it is just a 3 axis table that uses dc motors with attached encoders.

    the motors are 24v DC

    the encoders are 5v, optical, three channel units with a resolution of 1024 counts per revolution at up to 30,000rpm

    I have a PSU that will provide both

    I also have L298N and A4988 drivers on hand.

    For control I have Mega and Uno arduinos.

     

    I want to be able to send the arduino a g-code file and have the table follow the path, once I get to that point, I can decide on what form I want the machine to take.

    I'm pretty good with electronics and mechanics, if it were a stepper system I could figure it out, but I'm not very knowledgeable with the programing side of things.

     

    also I don't know if it is important, but the small pcb next to each motor shunts the motor and acts like a braking mechanism. 

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    encoder:

    http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/79134.pdf?_ga=2.158234874.1556239968.1496190497-1997083092.1494048542

     

    HEDL-5540#A13 - BROADCOM LIMITED - ENCODER, ROTARY, 500PPR, 3CH | Newark element14

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  • balearicdynamics
    balearicdynamics over 8 years ago in reply to antiobsolescenttoymaker

    Hello,

     

    to be honest I think using a DC and not a stepper motor for driving axes is not a great solution at all. There are lot of reasons including the stability of the motor in every step and the fact that steppers have a specific torque no matter of the speed. Last but not least intuitively I can't imagine that arduino has sufficient processing power to manage the entire logic and feedback via the encoders. The steppers instead, uses the half-bridges but when you send just the number of steps they rotate at the decided frequency and stop exactly in a certain angular position that is easy to translate in linear distance.

     

    Enrico

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  • antiobsolescenttoymaker
    antiobsolescenttoymaker over 8 years ago in reply to balearicdynamics

    Basically I have a very nice bare machine, it was in the medical industry so high precision parts all around, one of the heads had a needle attachment that touched various areas of a tiny glass microplate, so as far as accuracy and repeatability, i'm not worried.

    all i'm asking for is to be pointed in the right direction.

     

    the original controller (not working and proprietary)  was a Marvell ARMADA 162, it ran at 400mhz but also had to deal with at least 10 servos, along with 3 or 4 stepper motors solenoids and a bunch of temp and pH sensors.

     

    like I initially said, i'm just wanting a push in the right direction, not reasons why it can't be done.

     

    So ok. so far, the general idea is an arduino running at 16mhz controlling 2+ pwm channels and reading 6+ digital position channels will run into resource issues.

    How about breaking it into smaller pieces, Use something like an Attiny85 for each encoder, basically set up a simple protocol where it only receives 2 digital signals and translates those into a specific distance and direction, that way existing arduino stepper motor CNC sketches will be usable.

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  • michaelkellett
    michaelkellett over 8 years ago in reply to antiobsolescenttoymaker

    Generally speaking the processors you are talking about are not the first (or second or third) choice for linear motor control.

     

    TI make suitable processors and low cost dev  boards and also publish a lot of good information about motor control. You might do well to look at this and it would at least give you some ideas.

     

    Enrico is right in pointing out that it will be more difficult to control a 3 axis machine based on servo motors.

     

    Of course there are advantages as well - all the commercial CNC metal cutting machines I know of use linear or BLDC servo motors.

     

    MK

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  • tmyusuf
    tmyusuf over 8 years ago

    What is that . I have bare machine Could you help me for repairing me .

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  • antiobsolescenttoymaker
    antiobsolescenttoymaker over 8 years ago in reply to tmyusuf

    what is the problem?

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  • Robert Peter Oakes
    Robert Peter Oakes over 8 years ago

    Your biggest problem is you dont appear to have a suitable "Servo Controller", many of the new "Servo Motors" have a controller built in and will accept step and direction signals in the same way as a stepper controller but way better precision and more constant torque across the speed range

     

    The cost for you / or time (If your expertise allows for it) will be in writing software to replace the servo closed loop and integrate into a 3D printer control board like RepRap 1.4 or any other for that matter.99% of the cost effective ones expect to output step and direction pulses and or contain the stepper drivers on board.

     

    I think your best bet as you have what appears to be an excelent hardware platform is to replace those servos with nema 11 or 17 steppers. The drivers you're quoting are for steppers.

     

    You dont show enough detail on the small PCB to the left of the motor, is it possible this is a servo driver with integrated feedback control?, what is the chip on their ??

     

    please show a fuller view of the mechanical platform and any other parts you may have for this ?

     

    I am in the process of producing a series of videos specifically about creating a home built motion control system and this will be focused on all the modules needed to create a complete system

    This includes completing a CNC Router, Upgrading the controller on another CNC Router and building 2 3D printers from scratch (One CoreXY and one like a Prusa I3 MKII) , including design ,hardware and electronics needs.

     

    You can find the videos here

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40Qc8ZUZOJI

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPqOh4Yi3WU

     

    I have not posted the videos directly to Element14 as their sponsored by a different vendor and I dont want to upset people, but as far as helping fellow makers, it all about that image

     

    I also have a bunch of videos on the making and upgrading of my first CNC Router (1500mm x 1500mm) here :- The Bull Dog, A RoverCNC OX based 1500mm x 1500mm CNC - Tutorial build | OpenBuilds

     

    All the links are relevant to building motion control systems, hope you find them useful

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  • Robert Peter Oakes
    Robert Peter Oakes over 8 years ago in reply to antiobsolescenttoymaker

    To answer you and Add to Enrico

    CNC Router and 3D printer have probably 80% or more the same parts (Perhaps more powerful drivers in the case of the CNC Router but the same nonetheless)

     

    X, Y, Z control, mostly driven by steppers that offer 200 Steps per revolution, the torque chosen to suit the loads being moved.and often with 2 steppers on the axis driving the largest load (Y in the case of a lot of CNC Routers, Z in the case of most 3D printers)

     

    A Spindle speed / Filament Feed control, in the case of a CNC Router this is controlling the speed of the cutter in RPM along with speed of movement to result in "Material removal rate", in the case of a 3D printer this is material adding rate image, the same but opposite if you like as it is still a combination of motion speed and filament feed rate. For the CNC Machine this is often a 0-10V or PWM signal tot he motor control board, in the case of the 3D printer this is a Stepper control (But does not have to be)

     

    In addition to the above a 3D printer will have another control for the temperature of the Hot End where the plastic is melted prior to squeezing through the nozzle. this is usually many amps at 12 or 24 Volts.

    Optionally there is also a heated bed on the 3D printer to aid in print quality and can inhibit curling of the printed product if tuned correctly (An Art into itself image )

     

    Can you build a 3D printer / CNC Router combo, of course you can but it will need to be built with the heavier load in mind and that is NOT the 3D printer. for instance my CNC Router has to move over 11KG including the X Gantry and Z along with a bosch Colt router, a Nema 11 or 17 motor wont do for that so I use Nema 23 motors, you could go bigger if you use a bigger router or platform.

     

    A 3D printer often only needs to move the hot end and the gantry and can easily do this with a NEMA11 or 17 motor. I am using Nema 17's in my builds, one with 200 Steps per revolution and one with 400 Steps per revolution (Hopefully giving better accuracy)

    Both these machines will easily support a small Dremel style rotary cutter if I want and or even a Laser Diode cutter for cardboard or Foam machining.

     

    What makes the real difference here is the controller will almost certainly use GCode and the CAD Cam software needs to be able to know the difference converting the model from say a Fusion 360 3D model to 3D printer GCode and so there may be a need for a pre-processor like CURA or SLI3CER to convert a STL to compatable 3D printable GCode working from the bottom up and adding material as opposed to the top down and removing material

     

    of course it is a little more complex than that but not much and by the time im done with my videos I will be showing all of this. If I can get someone to send me suitable servos then these will also be shown for 3D printing, perhaps over kill for a 3D printer but perfectly viable nonetheless

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  • Robert Peter Oakes
    Robert Peter Oakes over 8 years ago

    This may also help you, it is a Gecko controller for Servos, but it is 120$ per controller . (Motor) http://www.geckodrive.com/support/application-notes/servo-drives/using-heds-encoders.html  and http://www.geckodrive.com/geckodrive-brush-dc-drives.html

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