UKCA (or CE) marking required for LED ceiling lamps?

Andrew J said:

I'm going to push for money back and wanted to know if a lack of regulatory marking was something I could add to the evidence.

I'm guessing you have already found this ?

IEC 60598-1 on luminaires is the definitive safety standard for luminaires. It specifies the essential electrical safety and performance requirements for all types of electrical luminaires with requirements for their design, construction, test, and performance.

IEC 60598-1 covers all common types of luminaire and is designed to be used in conjunction with Part 2 standards, each of which tailor the general requirements for use with specific types of luminaire.

IEC 60598-1 has been fully updated to include recent innovations.

https://knowledge.bsigroup.com/products/luminaires-general-requirements-and-tests-6?version=tracked

No, and I guess at £410 a copy I never will   The link I posted earlier, that I eventually found, was fairly clear on requirements for any product over 50V AC.  

Your earlier point about loopholes by providing "a kit" I don't think would stack up, even if it isn't possible to stop someone popping down B&Q to buy a bunch of bits to stick together.  It's been decades since the UK mandated that all appliances had to come with a moulded plug on the end of the power lead.  Saved the hunt for a plug to stick on the end of the cable - and the rob Peter to pay Paul approach.  I guess many 13-amp plugs were fitted to 3-amp requirement units!  Any light fitting I have bought in many a year, that required any form of construction, had all wired elements fully connected unless it was a low voltage picked up from a (wired up) power rail.  The only connection for the consumer to do was to the actual lighting circuit and all required connector blocks are in place and, typically, fixed to the unit - often leading to much swearing and arm ache in fixing heavy units in place.

Andrew J said:

No, and I guess at £410 a copy I never will

You should be able to access it via a local library for free though.

I always thought that it was a bit ironic that they produce those texts in order to improve safety yet they then make then more difficult to obtain by pricing them out of reach to those interested in improving safety. It was a bit like the HSE documentation but at least they now provide free PDF downloads.

https://www.pat-testing-training.net/articles/making-and-selling-lamps.php

Andrew J said:

even if it isn't possible to stop someone popping down B&Q to buy a bunch of bits to stick together

That was what I was thinking as the same LED modules are available to purchase separately (with the connector block in place).

Equally I've seen electrical fixtures which have been supplied as "some assembly required" in order to reduce overall packaging size, which means that it likely doesn't get an electrical test after the final assembly and before installation. Yet some still have the regulatory approval markings attached.

Andrew J said:

Saved the hunt for a plug to stick on the end of the cable - and the rob Peter to pay Paul approach.

It also hopefully avoided the common practise of twisted bare ends being inserted directly into the outlet as well as people trying to wire 13A plugs using various kitchen implements as tools.

It still gets abused by suppliers who will supply a power cord terminated with a European plug but with a cheap 13A adapter thrown in at the time of purchase.

It may have been decades since the mandate, but with the amount of counterfeit electrical goods making it into the UK each year, then you often end up being no further forward.

" they produce those texts in order to improve safety yet they then make then more difficult to obtain by pricing them out of reach to those interested in improving safety"

I've wondered in the past too, and my theory (just speculating! and not saying I agree with it or not), is that there was a side-effect, in that if standards were freely available, then non-experts would be over-confident that their DIY installations or repairs or self-made products were safe, without understanding the underlying stuff that engineers will have studied, but which would be absent from the standards. In other words, non-experts would assume that the standards were all they needed to know. They may have no clue how to test to the standard for instance (e.g. the standard may mention that wiring needs to be secured to a force of X newtons, but it's not going to mention how to measure, nor how aging may affect the materials used for securing it, or flammability of the method of securing... this is just a contrived example).

Others may argue that the disadvantages of inaccessibility to the standards at an affordable or free cost outweigh the above potential benefit of course! It's a grey area for sure.

Interesting points.

shabaz said:

if standards were freely available

In theory, these ones are freely available through a library, (unless you start to factor in the cost of your time and travel to get to and from the main library every time you want to look into things a bit more,  unless the local library gives you access via the online subscription ).

However if the information is not readily available from a reliable source (e.g. PDF download), then people will then likely refer to the less reliable sources as an alternative.

shabaz said:

e.g. the standard may mention that wiring needs to be secured to a force of X newtons

That one can perhaps swing both ways though. I've yet to see a qualified electrician (outside of a training scenario) actually use a torque screwdriver to terminate cables, even though a specific torque is usually stated on the products they are installing.

shabaz said:

Others may argue that the disadvantages of inaccessibility to the standards at an affordable or free cost outweigh the above potential benefit of course!

This post is possibly a good example. Someone has purchased a product and wants to quickly confirm  what standards should apply as "something doesn't look quite right" and it would be more convenient to check with the appropriate standards before the house burns down or someone ends up in hospital.

Similar with counterfeit goods. You may need access to standards to confirm whether or not what you have been sold actually meets the specification it should do. 

Interesting points.

shabaz said:

if standards were freely available

In theory, these ones are freely available through a library, (unless you start to factor in the cost of your time and travel to get to and from the main library every time you want to look into things a bit more,  unless the local library gives you access via the online subscription ).

However if the information is not readily available from a reliable source (e.g. PDF download), then people will then likely refer to the less reliable sources as an alternative.

shabaz said:

e.g. the standard may mention that wiring needs to be secured to a force of X newtons

That one can perhaps swing both ways though. I've yet to see a qualified electrician (outside of a training scenario) actually use a torque screwdriver to terminate cables, even though a specific torque is usually stated on the products they are installing.

shabaz said:

Others may argue that the disadvantages of inaccessibility to the standards at an affordable or free cost outweigh the above potential benefit of course!

This post is possibly a good example. Someone has purchased a product and wants to quickly confirm  what standards should apply as "something doesn't look quite right" and it would be more convenient to check with the appropriate standards before the house burns down or someone ends up in hospital.

Similar with counterfeit goods. You may need access to standards to confirm whether or not what you have been sold actually meets the specification it should do. 

I'm aware enough to know what is right or not when it comes to electrics - even if they were conformant, I wouldn't be putting them up!  The way this is sold is illegal in the UK, but I expect a lot of people are putting them up regardless: lots of complaints about them on TrustPilot.  

I expect anyone who has been around the block enough has bought a house where the DIY has been decidedly dodgy.  I know I've had to put a lot right in my house.  What I never really get is why do it shoddily, it never made any sense to me.  If I could do something, it would be done right otherwise I'd get someone in who knew what they were doing (hopefully, isn't always the case.)  

Anyway, they haven't responded to my request for a refund so I'll sort that out with the CC company.  Could be more photos coming....