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Polls What's Stopping the Internet of Industrial Things?
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  • Author Author: cstanton
  • Date Created: 18 Feb 2016 12:55 AM Date Created
  • Last Updated Last Updated: 11 Oct 2021 2:57 PM
  • Views 3628 views
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  • Comments 24 comments
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What's Stopping the Internet of Industrial Things?

Is it even Needed?

There, I said it, is that controversial enough? It might be. You have likely heard of the Internet of Things (IoT) by now and what it is, "let's connect everything to the internet! so we then know what it is!" and my suspicion is, that it is not necessarily needed. Or perhaps the concept is just too big to comprehend how it applies right now, let us think about and discuss this, I suggest first we start small.

 

Starting Small

For a lot of people the first thought that comes to mind with IoT is making a smarter home via home automation. There is nothing more awesome than feeling in control and being informed whether your plants are in need of a water, if your home is secure or keeping a close eye on your front door via a camera when Amazon ring the doorbell. We have even read that a controlled sprinkler system allowed a home owner to save their premises from being burnt down where their neighbours suffered great losses. The success stories are slowly pouring in, we are surely better connected, are we not? We can even look after our pets. Though for every success story there is often a horror tale, but we shall not talk about cars (or Die Hard 4 and its hacked power plant).

 

However, when we are looking at the scale of the home, we have an isolated scenario, a sandbox, a location where frankly we can do whatever we like. Here in begins to lie the crux of the scale of IoT and its increase to a level where it could be considered to be applied to, let us say for example, a humongous steel production plant.

 

Thinking Big

I was introduced to industrial environments from a young age, my father being an industrial shift engineer working on the huge and heavy electronics of British Steel. Regularly I would hear tales of trudging up long ladders, getting covered in extra fine coke dust and crud, to take care of the electronics for a conveyor belt system that would put a shopping till to shame, and motors the size of a large living room with junction boxes the size of a human. So, too, came the tales of blast furnaces and metal working, but also of the systems that controlled these. From the computer systems that people sat at to systems which you would not hear about from home.

 

Programmable Logic Controllers (PLC) are the electronics that are the heavy duty, industrial armoured electronics against the elements and truly harsh conditions. Your typical Beaglebone Black would not cut it where a PLC can do the grunt work, (though with the industrial BBB we're getting better). This is what I see as the type of system which the Internet of Things is trying to replace or supplement in an industrial environment, and it is not going to be cheap to do so.

 

So just how do you go from a system that is setup to use PLCs to one that wants to be connected to the internet? Or is it already on the internet? Unfortunately for this information, my father retired from Corus as it was then known, before becoming Tata Steel and did not see what upgrades were done to the system.

 

However, I suspect that the engineers of this community may have seen similar or even more.

 

What is Stopping the Internet of Industrial Things?

You tell me! You do not have to be specific, I suspect that a number of people are under Non-Disclosure Agreements with their company, but let us be general about this shall we?

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Top Comments

  • amgalbu
    amgalbu over 10 years ago +4
    I would say "there is no killer application for IoT". There is nothing you can't live without once you have tried
  • mcb1
    mcb1 over 10 years ago in reply to rscasny +3
    I think the Internet provides a means to not only provide more edge sensors at more strategic locations throughout the plant So does the piece of wire running around it. Many of these plants require intrinsically…
  • shabaz
    shabaz over 10 years ago in reply to mcb1 +3
    I'm no mechanical engineer can't even fix my car usually : ( so I need to research more to know the specific industries that benefit from it but apparently some things like mechanical wear over time perhaps…
  • shabaz
    shabaz over 10 years ago in reply to mcb1

    I'm no mechanical engineer can't even fix my car usually : ( so I need to research more to know the specific industries that benefit from it but apparently some things like mechanical wear over time perhaps can be detected due to vibration or sound, to the point that Bosch offers a service for some industries to detect this proactively. I don't know the name of their service unfortunately nor take-up.

     

    Today businesses already connect to public SaaS providers and trust them with sensitive data. I know the industry you're in may not perhaps due to legislation or risk analysis, but others do.

    For SaaS too, security was cited as a primary concern only around 5 years ago. It is still a concern but now security solutions exist to the extent that many (perhaps the majority of businesses today?)

    will now trust certain reputable providers. Loads of businesses trust Salesforce.com for example with financial-impacting information.

     

    Back to IoT, an IoT solution doesn't have to connect to a public cloud, it could be a private or hybrid cloud. Security has to be considered for the entire solution, but it's not insurmountable provided we're willing to engineer a solution. The business of course has to be willing to pay for it.

    Reputable vendors won't supply the solution without security considerations appropriate to the industrial use-case and the data requirements (and legal requirements). The solutions that exist today won't suit every industry, but neither did SaaS applications five years ago, and they have gained significant traction to the point of it being normal for many businesses (not all). It's not a perfect analogy of course, but I see no showstopper for certain industries (and neither do they because they have deployed IoT solutions). Utility firms will be deploying smart meters as we discussed on another thread.

     

    ISPs can and do perform maintenance, but no vendor worth their salt will deploy a solution that would fall over when this occurred. Tests have shown that many-9's of availability is possible with redundant paths (I recall some uni tested this at least 5 years ago, with residential DSL). There are also service level guarantees if customers are willing to hop off the public Internet onto private networks offered by service providers at additional cost (And anything that requires a low-latency response can still be achieved with local processing; some solutions bring tremendous benefit even with delayed reporting, all control doesn't need to be remote).

    There are IoT deployments like oil fields connected via the same access technologies as Internet offerings, e.g. with (say) satellite links, for the cost and monitoring benefits mentioned earlier.

    Other use-cases have redundancy using (say) DSL and mobile network links.

     

    Your points are very valid, some businesses (maybe many!) will invest in solutions that will be insecure, possibly dangerous and not fit for purpose.

     

    EDIT: Not IoT nor industrial related, but the sheer idiocy of an engineer developing a wireless burglar alarm system that allows a replay of 433MHz encoded data to unlock it is staggering:

    IOActive Labs Research: Remotely Disabling a Wireless Burglar Alarm

    Apparently it has sold in the millions, and yet anyone with an SDR dongle could capture it... I'm guessing burglar alarm standards/legislation isn't too high for residential alarm systems. Bizarrely the manufacturer states in this case that using the web app is more secure. I would run a mile from trusting the product at all given the replay issue though. Who knows what other holes they may have.

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  • mcb1
    mcb1 over 10 years ago in reply to rscasny

    I think the Internet provides a means to not only provide more edge sensors at more strategic locations throughout the plant

    So does the piece of wire running around it.

    Many of these plants require intrinsically safe wiring, and using RF solutions (yes WiFi is RF) may not be an option.

     

    I'm not sure about this 'data lake' business.

    A gas monitor (to use your example) is there to monitor the level of a gas, or gases, and when the level reaches xx, then the system reacts.

    Sending all this into a 'data lake' doesn't improve the detection aspect of the sensor.

     

    Thanks for the reference but I work in a fairly secure environment and I'm fairly aware of the risks.

    We don't even allow our two main networks to interact with each other, let alone the outside world.

     

     

    Mark

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  • mcb1
    mcb1 over 10 years ago in reply to shabaz

    and is used to sense degraded behaviour so that engineers can be dispatched to a site before the machine completely fails.

    Seen these systems ... sometimes it might work, but generally its just before total failure (usually the controller, power or something else)

     

    The problem with security IMO is that most sales pitches are just that, they highlight the advantages and seldom if ever think about the negatives.

    Unless compnies have a hacker on board, they are not aware fo the potential risks in connecting xyz to their networks.

    Many companies might not even have such IT inhouse and instead rely on external providers.

     

    Mudz raised some very valid points about delays, and imagine what happens when your ISP decides to do maintenance...

     

    Mark

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  • shabaz
    shabaz over 10 years ago

    I think what accelerates IIoT is if there are clear benefits for businesses and users. Some great examples involve better management of solutions, and better prediction of failing hardware. One real example I'm aware of concerns remote locations. The ability to retain existing sensors, and using gateways to get that data over IP to a centralized location meant better management, and reduced costs. Reliability over the Internet is achieved through redundant paths i.e. similar to the example bwelsby mentions he'd seen.

    Another real example is industrial gear sold to customers where additional new sensors can be applied and data is sent over the mobile network and is used to sense degraded behaviour so that engineers can be dispatched to a site before the machine completely fails.

    These are both still kind of basic use-cases, and take advantage of cheap Internet, modern sensors, and data gathering and processing technologies to attain what wasn't easy or economical to achieve in the past. Regarding secure solutions, the appropriate sum of money needs to be invested in security (depends on what needs to be secured and how valuable the data is). On the other hand for home IoT, some businesses skimp on security (and some non-technical consumers might not appreciate the hidden cost of security in the better products/solutions) and thus they get sub-optimal offerings..

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  • rscasny
    rscasny over 10 years ago in reply to mudz

    Hi Mudz.

     

    Thanks for your thoughtful response.

     

    You touch on a number of issues that need to be considered for an implementation of an IoT-enabled industrial control system.

     

    You address the question of the need for Industrial IoT in the proper context. The question isn't (as posed in the introductory portion of this post) is IIoT needed at all. Rather, there are a number of things you can do to improve your plant's productivity that are probably easier to implement than an IoT system and just as important. AC Variable Frequency Drives (VFDs) are a great way to save energy and reduce operational costs. You don't need to drive them via the Internet to obtain operational and cost saving benefits. They are easier to repair than when I serviced them as a field engineer at Eaton. A 10 HP VFD is compact enough to be a swap out replacement nowadays, not like in the past. And the new flux vector control system optimizes motor performance very well. No need for the Internet for that.

     

    Poor Internet Infrastructure -- a reliable IP service is a basic requirement for an Industrial IoT control system. But even in the U.S., I've known some factories that aren't up to speed as far as their IP Service.

     

    Time Lag: process control is much more sensitive to delays than a consumer network, which can tolerate them. I believe the IEEE 802.1 standard (Time-Sensitive Networking) is still being worked on. This summarizes the current state of it: http://www.ieee802.org/1/files/public/docs2014/tsn-nfinn-IEEE-TSN-Status-for-IETF-1114-v02.pdf

     

    Security: the security issues of critical infrastructure (mission critical applications) has just not been addressed enough IMHO. This alone will unfortunately limit the adoption curve of Industrial IoT.

     

    Reliability: I'm of two minds concerning this issue. A big part of what you've mentioned (e.g., a poor internet infra structure, etc.) But I think there is also a generational problem: how many older plant managers are willing to accept or even trust wireless sensor and control systems? Clearly, there needs to be a lot of education needed (change management) to get senior managers on board..

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  • mudz
    mudz over 10 years ago

    Reasons:-
    Poor internet infra

    Time Lag

    Reliability
    Security
    Other potential improvements before IoT?

     

    In my opinion, IoT has some potential in Industry but it would be Industry specific. Are we talking about connecting machines to IoT? There are industries requiring close supervision of things where seconds of delay can cause Fire/loss of life. Why? Because with such high Industrial Power all it takes is a few counts of over load to start a fire within a seconds. One cannot rely on Internet for that where even time lag is of more than seconds.

    Poor Internet Infra - In majority of Industrial regions in my country the Internet related infrastructure is not very reliable. In fact, main ISP providers use underground cables that are old and UBR based Wireless Links (let it be P2P or P2MP) are not very effective in providing continuous connectivity.

     

    Time Lag – Not to mention, Time. One of the most important factors in industry, & draws a fine line between safety|Mishap. One can understand If anything is going to internet Uplink/Downlink there is a time lag, so if process is critical and demands immediate actions one cannot trust such loss of time. I might be industry specific with this example but talking about general process in industry with such Passable built of machines and dis regard of safety in many ways. It happens here.

     

    Reliability - Well obviously related to the main internet structure here. How can one be assure of its industry working based on IoT (””)___(””) when the main pillar on which it is based is not reliable itself i.e. Internet infra?

    Security - Not the password crack type security but the security of the persons working in the premises with machines which are relying on internet for controlling actions.  

     

    Other improvements before IoT?

    Moreover, In India where majority of factories are Mid-scale factories there are so many area of improvements other than bringing IoT to it, so businessman best bet here will be first improving their factory conditions (such as bringing automation, using proper equipment to drive high power machines, measures to keep power consumption as low as possible etc.) seems much viable. 

    For example read below:-

    I remember something similar; I was called by my uncle to visit his factory (Pipe manufacturing plant) to advise him (technical point of view) how they can improve their production and safety within the factory. Also he was wondering if any improvement can reduce running cost.
    About the factory: The factory was totally based on man power right from unloading the raw material from the truck to the end loading finished product to the truck. All of the motors were directly connected to the three phase supply with the help of mechanical starter switch.
    So there was a lot of room for the improvement but that would costs lot of money (in tens of Lakh) so, he asked me for the major changes at that time. I suggested him following things (much more than this but let’s keep it short):-

    1. Process Automation –   80% of that factory could have been automated i.e. can be made to work automatically without human need. By using several processing units (PLC etc.) like heating up the machine in controlled, efficient manner (thus saving power) & preparing best quality product, Loading of raw material & unloading  to the processing machine automatically etc.

    2. AC drives – I recommended him to get an AC drive for all of the motors but condering money an important factor I convinced him to get AC drive for the major motor.  After a year there was some fault in it and AC drive got burnt. He ordered another one immediately. Using it for a year he came to knew how that single improvement was beneficial to his factory in many aspects.

     

    3. PF factor – Another factor they need to take care of was keeping an eye on the power factor, if it goes beyond 1 and even stays there for minutes, electricity department will be adding a penalty on that and that will be of thousands. 

    The point is, there were only few areas in which I could have recommended using IoT feature and that will be to keep an eye statistical record of material, PF factor monitoring & alarming system seems possible area in that particular industry other than that other improvements seems to be much reasonable.
    So I believe there are many other reasonable improvements first needed to be take care of before introducing IoT here. Local Wireless is already there but internet is not a feasible choice right now here.

     

     

    mudz

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  • rscasny
    rscasny over 10 years ago in reply to mcb1

    Hi Mark.

     

    Well, you raise two issues:

     

    • The effectiveness of IoT based control systems vs. non-IoT based / standard gas monitoring systems
    • The security of critical  infrastructure

     

    Both these issues are very important, but separate considerations.

     

    W would need to have the blueprints of the placement of the current gas monitors (upstream, downstream, throughout the plant) and what their set points were and the hysteresis of the sensors and how they are connected to the alert control system to really answer your question. I think the Internet provides a means to not only provide more edge sensors at more strategic locations throughout the plant, but the key element is the Big Data management system that receives the sensor data would be more predictive in determining when a problem of an abrupt increase in explosive gas concentration is occurring

     

    As far as the security of critical infrastructure....this of course is a big concern and not just for oil refineries. I'd suggest you read Mission Critical magazine and Critical Infrastructure mag. This article from Control Engineering mag is a good primer on the topic:

    http://www.controleng.com/single-article/cyber-security-in-process-plants-recognizing-risks-addressing-current-threats/a…

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  • mcb1
    mcb1 over 10 years ago in reply to rscasny

    I bet the plant wished it had an IoT-enabled gas monitor that could have alerted, in real-time the presumably increase in explosive gases. Sure, they probably had gas monitors, which were obviously not good enough.

    Would having these 'obviously not good enough" monitors connected to IIoT help.?

    Was the failure in the sensor or the control system.?

     

     

    I'm not sure that having important infrastructure connected to the internet would make anyone happy.

    Given that hackers seem to have little restrictions, imagine the effect of someone was targetting the system for terrorist type activity.

     

    Mark

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  • rscasny
    rscasny over 10 years ago

    Well, my first thought upon reading this post was -- [Industrial IoT] "not needed" is a curious notion, especially for a community site of engineers who are creating the embedded edge devices that will foster the global adoption of a most important technology --- one that promises to impact the lives of human beings all over the world in a positive way.

     

    So, is the Industrial Internet of Things needed? Well, a few years ago there was a massive explosion at an oil refinery in Texas. I believe it killed 30. Given the cost of rebuilding the plant, the subsequent litigation and the loss of  loved ones and breadwinners of their families, in hindsight, I bet the plant wished it had an IoT-enabled gas monitor that could have alerted, in real-time the presumably increase in explosive gases. Sure, they probably had gas monitors, which were obviously not good enough.

     

    When I was field engineer years ago for Eaton Electric Drives Division, I went to work at nuclear plants, wastewater treatment plants, steel mills, meat-packing plants, corn processing plants, pharma plants and countless other hot, dirty, smelly and dangerous facilities. I recall once going to a steel mill that was losing $150,000 every time power was lost from the tap-switching (SCR) power conditioner I was sent to repair. The managers were not very happy when I arrived and were already threatening lawsuits. It would have been nice if that steel mill had had an smart-power monitoring system.

     

    Talk to an product liability attorney (or a victim of a product failure) and you will quickly learn there are problems with product quality that were never caught despite the fact that these factories have quality certifications such as ISO9001 or Six Sigma.

     

    Yeah, I'd say  Industrial IoT is needed. But what exactly is it? What can it do for you? Well, let's run through a basic use case example. I've provided a basic diagram of this Industrial IoT system. In this use case, the company wanted to predict failures of components even before anyone noticed a problem. They wanted to avoid warranty repairs, product recalls, lawsuits from product failures and most importantly avoid damage to their reputation and brand.

    image

    In this Industrial IoT system, the Internet-enabled edge sensors transmit massive amounts of data wirelessly to a gateway. The gateway uses and IP-based connection to the Data management system, a Hadoop-based Data Lake. The data management system crunches the numbers and processes it through the data analytics to give insights.

     

    Insights are what separates an Industrial IoT system from a traditional PLC-based, P-2-P process controller. The insights provide the quantitative analysis where decisions are made and business changes are implemented.

     

    While this engineering community is more or less focused on developing the embedded edge sensors, it is the data lake and the data analytics that allow predictive analysis and insights that otherwise would not be possible.

     

    Now given this example and the framework I have introduced, What are the Obstacles or impediments to the adoption of the Industrial Internet of Things. [BTW, nothing is stopping the adaption; impeding is not stopping.]

     

    You need to get the sensors right to collect the data; you need to transmit it in real-time since process controls cannot tolerate a lot latency; you need a data lake; and, finally, you need the right data analytics to determine the Insights. And you need a forward looking management team that will be willing to implement the change -- perhaps the biggest obstacle.

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  • bwelsby
    bwelsby over 10 years ago in reply to mcb1

    We have many systems where we do require the original supplier to gain access.

    In these situations either VPN or a physical access link is opened up for them to see all the parts of the system as they report to the controller.

    We don;t have these open noramllay for security reasons

    In the days before the public Internet this was done with dial-up modem (slow) or ISDN (faster and more expensive)  or leased line ( very expensive), the Internet is providing a very low cost and much faster alternative.  I know of some companies that have replaced their leased line links for VPNs over the Internet but still kept the very expensive high availability ( dual redundant) leased line links for security and mission critical requirements . I know of one company that took Internet links via two ISPs with diverse connections for high availability.  I can't go into details of their applications, this was before IOT or IOIT was thought of but would be classed as that now.

     

    I'm not sure what examples are out there, so maybe the key to this poll is identifying 'things' that would be more useful if they talked to other things.

    The word "useful" is the key here and not just a whiz bang gimmick.

    We've all heard of the mythical smart meter that apparently can communicate with your fidge to delay the defrost cycle ..... good luck with our 25yr old version.

    Yes I agree, and I am sure there's a company that has divisions that manufacture both of these and think it's a great idea to use one to sell the other. image

    Here in the UK all our meters will be changed to "smart" meters by 2020 https://www.gov.uk/guidance/smart-meters-how-they-work  I don't think they will talk to a fridge though and I like the bit that says

    " there will not be a legal obligation on individuals to have one. 

    Energy companies will be required to install smart meters and take all reasonable steps to reach everyone. However, we do not expect energy companies to take legal action to fit a smart meter if they cannot get the householder’s co-operation."

     

    Brian

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