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Internet of Things
Polls What's Stopping the Internet of Industrial Things?
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  • Author Author: cstanton
  • Date Created: 18 Feb 2016 12:55 AM Date Created
  • Last Updated Last Updated: 11 Oct 2021 2:57 PM
  • Views 2795 views
  • Likes 1 like
  • Comments 24 comments
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What's Stopping the Internet of Industrial Things?

Is it even Needed?

There, I said it, is that controversial enough? It might be. You have likely heard of the Internet of Things (IoT) by now and what it is, "let's connect everything to the internet! so we then know what it is!" and my suspicion is, that it is not necessarily needed. Or perhaps the concept is just too big to comprehend how it applies right now, let us think about and discuss this, I suggest first we start small.

 

Starting Small

For a lot of people the first thought that comes to mind with IoT is making a smarter home via home automation. There is nothing more awesome than feeling in control and being informed whether your plants are in need of a water, if your home is secure or keeping a close eye on your front door via a camera when Amazon ring the doorbell. We have even read that a controlled sprinkler system allowed a home owner to save their premises from being burnt down where their neighbours suffered great losses. The success stories are slowly pouring in, we are surely better connected, are we not? We can even look after our pets. Though for every success story there is often a horror tale, but we shall not talk about cars (or Die Hard 4 and its hacked power plant).

 

However, when we are looking at the scale of the home, we have an isolated scenario, a sandbox, a location where frankly we can do whatever we like. Here in begins to lie the crux of the scale of IoT and its increase to a level where it could be considered to be applied to, let us say for example, a humongous steel production plant.

 

Thinking Big

I was introduced to industrial environments from a young age, my father being an industrial shift engineer working on the huge and heavy electronics of British Steel. Regularly I would hear tales of trudging up long ladders, getting covered in extra fine coke dust and crud, to take care of the electronics for a conveyor belt system that would put a shopping till to shame, and motors the size of a large living room with junction boxes the size of a human. So, too, came the tales of blast furnaces and metal working, but also of the systems that controlled these. From the computer systems that people sat at to systems which you would not hear about from home.

 

Programmable Logic Controllers (PLC) are the electronics that are the heavy duty, industrial armoured electronics against the elements and truly harsh conditions. Your typical Beaglebone Black would not cut it where a PLC can do the grunt work, (though with the industrial BBB we're getting better). This is what I see as the type of system which the Internet of Things is trying to replace or supplement in an industrial environment, and it is not going to be cheap to do so.

 

So just how do you go from a system that is setup to use PLCs to one that wants to be connected to the internet? Or is it already on the internet? Unfortunately for this information, my father retired from Corus as it was then known, before becoming Tata Steel and did not see what upgrades were done to the system.

 

However, I suspect that the engineers of this community may have seen similar or even more.

 

What is Stopping the Internet of Industrial Things?

You tell me! You do not have to be specific, I suspect that a number of people are under Non-Disclosure Agreements with their company, but let us be general about this shall we?

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Top Comments

  • amgalbu
    amgalbu over 9 years ago +4
    I would say "there is no killer application for IoT". There is nothing you can't live without once you have tried
  • mcb1
    mcb1 over 9 years ago in reply to rscasny +3
    I think the Internet provides a means to not only provide more edge sensors at more strategic locations throughout the plant So does the piece of wire running around it. Many of these plants require intrinsically…
  • shabaz
    shabaz over 9 years ago in reply to mcb1 +3
    I'm no mechanical engineer can't even fix my car usually : ( so I need to research more to know the specific industries that benefit from it but apparently some things like mechanical wear over time perhaps…
  • dougw
    dougw over 9 years ago in reply to kellyhensen

    There are lots of compelling applications for IoT, but I don't think the majority of people have seen a killer app they just can't live without yet. But it is early days for IoT and more useful apps will be developed. The day IoT literally saves someone's life, they will become big fans. It may not be quite that dramatic, but I am sure IoT success stories will start to become known. There is still some worry that the benefits of IoT will not accrue to everyone, just some rich corporations will benefit at our expense. And corporations will try.

    It is up to us to think up ways it can benefit us

    • there are more of us (than corporations) to think up applications
    • we have more needs than corporations

    But do we control enough resources to make use of our advantage?

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  • Former Member
    Former Member over 9 years ago

    Corporations always have their own internally-driven projects and financial plans in flight.  They are slow to change direction and wary about investing financial resources.  This is the world of decision by committee with multiple levels of approval (rubber time).  Even when a good case is finally made, funding reallocation means something else would have to suffer delay or cancellation and internal politics makes an excellent resistor.

     

    Small business is a better fit.  Show the owners how innovation (E.g. credit card sales using a mobile phone) will reduce their costs and/or increase their sales and they will likely jump to it - especially if the financial risk is well-defined and controllable.

     

    I saw that a lot of folks are concerned about security.  Amen.  Sometimes, our zeal for the "bright and shiny" makes us blind to risk.  The biggest negative here is probably associated with a lack of adoption of available strong cryptography and key management standards.  For the example mentioned earlier(credit card sales using a mobile phone), is the end-to-end application (phone and VISA/MC gateway) using end-to-end strong encryption coupled with frequent transmission key change ("one-time" keys are even better)?  I certainly hope so!

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  • Former Member
    Former Member over 9 years ago

    I would say that a very good application for Industrial IoT would be equipment leasing.

     

    If a company leases out expensive industrial equipment in pay as you go model, it's a win win for both. The startup capital for new companies would be reduced. Hence a larger customer base for equipment manufacturer.

     

    Hence the leasing company can have data on usage,maintenance and down times. This would help it to charge and maintain the leased equipment.

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  • Jan Cumps
    Jan Cumps over 9 years ago in reply to amgalbu

    This is still the killer answer to me. We as designers fail to make a compelling case.

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  • rscasny
    rscasny over 9 years ago in reply to kellyhensen

    Kelly,

     

    Industrial Iot data sensors will indeed generate huge amounts of raw data. Some sensor networks will have 10,000 sensors outputting data for processing. It would be plenty expensive to simply push out the raw data for remote processing. So new approaches to IoT data management will probably be dreamed up by some clever engineer (hopefully a member of the element14 community!). Here's three options of which I am aware:

     

    1. Data can be storied locally and pushed out when required

    2. Data can be collected at concentration points or a gateway where it is fused together or aggregated in a compact form and then transmitted for processing

    3. Data can be processed locally and only sent out when an event of significance occurs.

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  • shabaz
    shabaz over 9 years ago in reply to kellyhensen

    Hi Kelly! Now you've done it ; ) Proponents and opponents switch on the Rocky music.. ; )

    I remember reading somewhere that as a generalisation data is more valuable the fresher it is, and then it loses value,

    but then after a period of time it can gain value again, as people start to discover more things they can do with it.

    A lot of the processing will have to occur locally too (e.g. using a local server or SBCs), so that not all noise needs to be

    processed in a cloud.

    As you say, a lot is blue sky thinking, and in a real world maybe there is too much complexity to extract the most from the

    data because it will become irrelevant by the time the data has been found, fetched and analyzed. However, I think

    it is fair to say we are currently underutilizing what data is easy to obtain with little hardware and software effort but

    we need a vast amount of smart thinking from software engineers to make the most of it all - the challenge is in the

    code to me sounds like a very accurate conclusion.

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  • kellyhensen
    kellyhensen over 9 years ago

    Hi - sorry i'm a bit late to this conversation. . . but it's an intriguing topic starting all the way at the beginning with

    Is it even Needed?

     

    This topic has been eating at me for a while – I have felt that something major was being overlooked – and that something just dawned on me,  "What are we going to do with all that data?"

     

    Of course we *can* connect trillions of sensors to the Internet and give them each an IP and a place to send their data/messages. But what are we going to do with all those trillions of data sets? Industrial applications will inherently have a problem over more consumer-IoT focuses in the sheer amount of data points that can be created and monitored. 

     

    We’re in our infancy with figuring out how to hadoop terabytes of data, how to store it, how to access quickly enough that it’s still relevant . . .  And that’s all before you start working on identifying patterns or evolving on to predicting patterns which will eventually become (in some blue sky world) a way to force/enforce patterns.

     

    It sounds like the challenge is in the code.

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  • mcb1
    mcb1 over 9 years ago in reply to rscasny

    Sorry but I think you are confusing the purpose of two totally different scenarios and trying to use it to promote another.

     

    For GE they have lots of parameters and variables, not just a couple of sensors that require action when a threshold is reached.

     

    The end game could be to reduce the cost of overhauls from a strickly by the book hours/takeoffs to a dynamic model based on true workload of an engine.

    In this case there are millions of dollars to be saved from the overhaul costs alone (materials + time out of service).

     

    I'd hate to think that they would be ignoring a high temperature just because x other aircraft also experience it.

     

     

    We run a similar system here in NZ where we save airlines millions in fuel, reduce delays and CO2 emissions.

    In this case many variables are collected or already known and the system does some analysis to make corrections to the flight during cruise to match the desired end target.

    In our systems we also collect lots of information that can be accessed to determine xyz.

    We just don't use a fancy name ie 'data lake', we call it System Health Processor.

     

     

    I'd also like to suggest that the article is a PR page and has no real information about how they are storing the data so you can actually know that its the engine temperature you're looking at, rather than the onboard battery system.

     

    I'm sure that eventually someone will decide that connecting everything to the Internet is a great idea, and it will solve everything.

    Given that many years ago people said we would be talking to our computers and mice and keyboards would not be needed, and I've yet to see that, I'm not holding my breath on this IIoT solution.

     

    Mark

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  • rscasny
    rscasny over 9 years ago in reply to mcb1

    Mark,

     

    Sensors and the Internet are only one piece of the big picture of Industrial IoT. The data lake really makes it all happen and offers much more than a better control of a machine. The Industrial Internet of Things is really meant to obtain meaning from huge amounts of data to drive the decision making processes in ways that could not be done before.

     

    If someone only wants to control machines with the Industrial Iot, I'd say, "why bother"-- one would be wasting the true value of the IoT technology and spending lots of money. But if you are proactive and are interested in predictive analytics, in other words, see trends of potential breakdowns or defects before the symptoms even become obvious, then the power of Industrial IoT is worth your time and money.

     

    Here's what GE Aviation is doing: it does thousands of jet engine overhauls. In the past, the analysis was done with the plane on the ground with an engineering team. Anyone who has spent any time troubleshooting systems, knows the troubleshooting can be slow. But now GE is using a data lake to automate the analysis. GE got 25 airlines to stream data to aggregate terabytes of full flight data with a data lake to decrease the analysis time and see problems/defects before they become headaches. Sure, it's a work in progress, but it's the road to a big pay off.

     

    I'm an optimist. I see a lot of potential with Industrial IoT. Maybe it won't happen tomorrow. It may not event be as big as Gartner predicts. And there are plenty of challenges to work out (e.g., security, latency, reliability, etc.) but IIoT is new and test cases are rolling out and being implemented. I think it's an exciting time and a technology with immense promise. Keep the faith.

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  • mcb1
    mcb1 over 9 years ago in reply to shabaz

    mechanical wear over time perhaps can be detected due to vibration or sound

    Yep, we use this on the Primary Radars to detect bearing wear on the antenna.

    This is by no means a fine one day, broken the next, so hardly an application for IIoT, and maybe there are some that can be fitted to smaller motors.

     

    Tests have shown that many-9's of availability is possible with redundant paths

    That is right, but there are often single points of failure ... ie the copper or fibre line to the business.

    We are fortunate that we have multiple entry points for our data feeds, and we try for this at the remote ends .... BUT it isn't always possible.

    Enivitably the big yellow cable locator finds the right spot

    image

    We even had a farmer/contractor adding a new fence line get it every 7m or so.

     

     

    Yes you can build in redundancy but the more complex, the more complex the fallover protocols to ensure you don't get loops.

    We had one of those 'moments' (that is still not publicly released yet, so no details here) and was despite the best efforts of our network engineers.

     

    Sadly many of the commercial products don't even include dual supplies, or if they do, they have complex checking which delays when the equipment will accept that supply as good.

    (Luckily that 'check delay' got discovered before it went live)

     

     

    I think that like IoT this might be a solution waiting for a use.

     

    Mark

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