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Forum Are there any adverse effects from isolating the AC power supply on my electronics bench?
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  • modification
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Related

Are there any adverse effects from isolating the AC power supply on my electronics bench?

4ringfan
4ringfan over 10 years ago

jw0752 happened to show me an Ebay listing the other day and it was like feeding candy to a baby.  My dad, he can be such an enabler!  Hehe!  So, the long and short of it is that I have acquired this BEAST (a Powervar 12 Power conditioner) and I am planning to modify it so that I can isolate and supply power to my entire bench.  The Powervac 12 is capable of supplying 12Amps at 120VAC, so the only thing I was thinking that I needed to be concerned with was possibly exceeding the supply capabilities of the transformer -- however I find the possibility of drawing that much power quite remote. So...


Here are my primary questions:


  1. Is there any reason or side effect that would contradict hooking the entire bench on the isolated secondary side of a transformer?
  2. Are there other things that I should be concerned with safety wise or otherwise plan for?
  3. Modification suggestions?
  4. In general, is this a good or bad idea?


I haven't found too many articles that talk about this, but here are links to a few that I have looked at:


isolation transformer - Electronics Forums


RadiolaGuy.com : Sonny's Tech Tips


http://www.signaltransformer.com/sites/all/pdf/IsolationTransformers%20Increase%20Safety%20of%20Electronic%20Systems.pdf


isolation - Why are we not always isolating the mains supply? - Electrical Engineering Stack Exchange


I have read the following and I take it that I should not connect any of my test equipment to the isolation, only projects that I am working on. What about power supplies?  What is the take on this?:

 

"DO NOT plug your test equipment into the isolation transformer, just the radio. I've seen folks wire their isolation transformer to a plug strip with all their equipment plugged into it and wonder why their "scope's" ground lead went up in smoke when they connected it to the radio chassis. If all your equipment is plugged into the isolation transformer, then nothing is "isolated"! Only the radio (or television) under test should be plugged into the isolation transformer!"


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  • mcb1
    mcb1 over 10 years ago in reply to 4ringfan +3 suggested
    4ringfan I'm guessing you don't want to listen to your father's advise ... I'm sure he has been able to offer some good advise. Isolating transformers are really only designed to work with double insulated…
  • mcb1
    mcb1 over 10 years ago in reply to 4ringfan +2
    4ringfan Mike Let him buy a motorcycle .. he will anyway. While we don't have the same weather problems, I brought one just after I got my licence. In those days you weren't restricted to 250cc so I brought…
  • mcb1
    mcb1 over 10 years ago in reply to peterjcs23 +2
    @peterjcs23 I'm not sure I would agree with all your conclusions. While I'm sure the corporate world may place some other restrictions, this discussion is about what those 'unseen' risks might be, and…
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  • Robert Peter Oakes
    0 Robert Peter Oakes over 10 years ago

    I have not been able to keep up with this but one thing I noted (That im not sure was addressed) was that the secondary side had a ground connection through the GFCB (Ground Fault Circuit Breaker)  this would then present the same shock ability if you touched something on the secondary side of the transformer and effectively negates the need for the transformer.


    The isolation provided by the transformer is designed to allow such things as a grounded scope to be attached to a "Live wire" without frying your scope, as there is a now common ground you have not achieved this

     

    The ground fault protector will not work of course if there is no ground as there is no alternate route to close the circuit of the secondary side if it is not grounded

     

    When this is on the Mains side of the transformer it is working by measuring the difference between the two legs of the mains wires (Live and Neutral) this does not matter if in the UK or Canada, 240 or 110, we all share a common theme, the neutral is connected to ground at the transformer and sometimes also at the fuse panel, the idea behind the GFCB is that id the current is passing through the ground wire instead of the neutral back to the panel ground it will trip the breaker as the neutral line is not balanced with the live anymore

     

    this is the Canada / USA kind of wiring to show my point

    image

    and this is the UK version (Or one possible version) I think this also applies to Australia and parts of Europe

    imageimage

     

    So what is common is that for an GFCB to work it needs a path back to its source so adding an isolating transformer provides the isolation to allow you to break that return path and provide a some what level of protection to you as the unit is now isolated. But if you add a GFCB back in and ground it (Required to make it work) you loose the point of the isolating transformer unless you start constructing a "FLOATING EARTH" for the purpose of the GFCB but that's kinda defeating the point.

     

    This is a simplified circuit of a GFCB and as you can see, it needs the ground return to work

    image

     

     

    I think in summary, if your after personal protection, then you dont need the transformer but do need the breaker (The lower current device (5mA) would be the less painful image but either will save your life in a crunch )

    If you want to isolate equipment so you can safely probe around with your scope etc then you need an isolating transformer but you sill need to be aware that the scope or other equipment is also connected to mains ground still so you need to think about what your grounding and the possible current loops you may be setting up.

     

    The idea of a high power and value resistor (A MEG or more) to ground will prevent the drifting up of the isolated side but again if you connect the GFCB it negates that resistor as it will be shorting it out

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  • gadget.iom
    0 gadget.iom over 10 years ago in reply to Robert Peter Oakes

    There are a few earthing systems applicable to the UK. A requirement during installation is to determine the type of supply you have (or will be receiving), as this can affect the protective devices required.

     

    More information can be found here: EARTHING: YOUR QUESTIONS ANSWERED - IET Electrical

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  • gadget.iom
    0 gadget.iom over 10 years ago in reply to Robert Peter Oakes

    There are a few earthing systems applicable to the UK. A requirement during installation is to determine the type of supply you have (or will be receiving), as this can affect the protective devices required.

     

    More information can be found here: EARTHING: YOUR QUESTIONS ANSWERED - IET Electrical

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