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Forum Worklog : Repair of 20-year old precision multimeter, HP 3458A
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  • metrology
  • restoration
  • 8.5-digit
  • keysight
  • hp
  • rusty
  • repair
  • bench_multimeter
  • gear
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  • 3458a
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Worklog : Repair of 20-year old precision multimeter, HP 3458A

tin_xdevs
tin_xdevs over 9 years ago

3458A. People who are into precision gear, need no introduction.

 

I wanted one since long ago, but not having business need in it, was not worth buying, as these even used on secondary market are going for good 3000-5000$ USD. But when I saw one dead unit for 750$, I could not resist and bite it. Seller photos were quite scary, with rust all over steel frame, but PCB boards looked "okay", so I hope for the best.

 

After some good money for shipping (beast is 15kg weight and size of average 2U rackmount server), I got it and did initial inspection:

 

* U100 processor MC68HC000P8 had paper sticker BAD (A5 board manufactured 1990)

* Missing button cap and lever for on power switch, guard switch and front/rear switch.

* Missing fuse binding post for amps on front panel

* Rust on steel chassis

* Mark "X" on mains power transformer

* Mark "X" on analog DC board 66501 (manufactured 1996)

* Error message RAM 1 LOW

* Missing voltage reference board (so calibration is meaningless, even if it's still intact in 1990 year DS1220)..

* Missing fuse holder for mains

* Damaged plastic rear panel

* No legs

* Dead fan

* Likely dead NVRAMs and lost cal as they are way too old.

 

Smell like lots of work, lots of debug folks.

 

Let's see what we are dealing with..

imageimage

imageimage

Always sad to see such instrument in mistreated condition. 3458A is current model, and you can get brand new one from Keysight, if you ready to fork 9.5K$, in base configuration.

Let's see what's inside..

imageimage

Cover's removed:

 

imageimage

View on both sides without covers. As we can see, no A9 voltage reference with Linear LTZ1000 present. New A9 reference module from Keysight runs for 700$, but hey, I don't need go that way. I had own LTZ1000(A) based references, on which I spent multiple hundreds, and on second source there is eBay, where these references popup for sale like mushrooms after rain. I snagged one of those already , should arrive somewhen next week. So we covered here..

imageimage

Inguard PSU. Some PCB damage around CR12 visible.

imageimage

Outguard primary PSU. All seems ok, but need cleaning..

imageimage

68000 CPU, RAM, ROM and digital logic, board A5. Dated 1990, while rest of analog PCBs dated 1996.

Probably seller changed digital PCB afterwards?

imageimage

Removing inguard PSU for now, adding jumpwire instead of fuse (don't have suitable cap), turning on...

image

It's works!.. Well, not really image Analog side completely disconnected and unpowered at this moment, just check digital and power sections first.

Nice and bright VFD, which is good, as it's hard to get replacement for those.

 

Now will remove Dallas NVRAMs , and solder sockets instead, so we can troubleshoot this RAM 1 LOW.

 

Front panel must be removed in order to remove mains transformer.

image

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Looking good, just minor cleaning required..

image

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Frontpanel PCBA label and front binding post terminals.

 

Now, we can take transformer out. I tried to open it up, but it's all covered in lacquer, and my patience run out quickly after wasting a hour trying to take it apart.

image

 

Transformer have two winding sections, primary with secondary for outguard +5V rail (goes to digital board and front panel, that's why it's working).

 

Second section for inguard supply is inner bobin with two secondary windings (one with center tap to generate +18/-18 and second for +5V analog).

This windings in my transformer are shorted together!

 

image

 

I would not trust repaired/rewinded transformer in such an instrument anyway, so going to make Agisight richer for $337 to get new transformer.

 

In case someone got FALSE impression that buying dead HP 3458A and fixing it would be cheap way to get yourself 8.5-digit DMM, think again.

Here are expenses on my unit already so far:

image.

Add calibration (let's say you go full tilt, standard's grade cal $2660), and you looking into healthy 4.4K$, for which you can get working and likely even calibrated 3458A from second-market, if you patient and shake trees good enough.

Also you can see I cut few corners here and there with parts from eBay, as if you go with all original parts from Keysight, it will be much more (Reference board alone is 700$, like mentioned before).

 

Since I wait for new transformer to arrive, how can we test inguard supply to confirm it's OK?

 

I have a "solution". From previous Keithley Model 2001 repair projects I have one extra power transformer, which happen to have same voltage outputs, as HP one, just at lower power rating. But since we connect only inguard supply A4 board, we don't need full power to check LDO's  operation. So let's replace blown zeners and test A4 PCBA with properly wired Keithley mains TR-280 transformer. Never know which parts could ever come handy, eh? 

But first, replaced original CR11,CR12 with fresh zeners (got 50pcs from eBay, just few dollars with free shipping).

image

Cleaned board both sides, everything else look intact and good.

image

Now can connect input IEC plug socket to transformer's primary (since I need 110VAC, I used WHITE + BLACK wires).

image

Keithley used same type of 5-pin connector, but with different pinout. Secondary connector need rewiring as on photo above. I powered transformer separately and measured VAC voltages on secondary, without A4 board connected, to make sure all voltages correct.

image

If you see schematics of A4 board in 3458A Multimeter Component Level Repair Manual, you may noticed MH1,MH2,MH3 connections. These are connected directly to guard frame in 3458A's chassis, which is acting as mecca star point for GND potential. Since I testing board separately, not mounted to chassis, I needed to connect these MH* points together with copper wire. This will be our ground point for measurements as well.

 

Apply power to transformer, and if nothing smokes, test output DC voltage.

image

There are nice labels near test points, telling us voltage test points location.

imageimage

imageimage

 

All voltages are OK, also 0.325VAC 60Hz signal to read mains frequency is OK too. 

Repair of A4 inguard power supply now complete.

 

I also got used bezel off eBay in good condition, to save some money on this project, as it's just mechanical part to keep meter in one piece.

New one on bottom side, old busted rear bezel is on top.

image image

Original unit's bezel had three out of four screw mounts destroyed, so it was not holding well.

image

Stay tuned, to be continued... image

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  • tin_xdevs
    tin_xdevs over 9 years ago +2
    Alright, here's next update, for those who follow A5 board Replaced original rusty GPIB connector with fresh one from dead 33120A PCB, I had around. Funny traces are PCB spark-gaps for some ESD protection…
  • tin_xdevs
    tin_xdevs over 9 years ago +2
    Everything assembled now, and ready for initial testing.. Transformer data for comparisons: Voltage rail name Nominal spec Regulator Bad transformer in our unit New good transformer winding +18V +18VDC…
  • tin_xdevs
    tin_xdevs over 9 years ago +1
    Made an order on Digikey for fan, caps to recap A6 outguard power supply board (can call me paranoid, but I don't trust 20 year old electrolyte capacitors.). Only gotcha is that there was no axial type…
  • jw0752
    jw0752 over 9 years ago in reply to tin_xdevs

    Mystery solved. The Jumper did it. 

    Congratulations beautiful job.

    John

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  • DAB
    DAB over 9 years ago

    Great post.

     

    I agree, at first glance at the chassis I feared for the worst.

    The inside boards look pretty good and I agree, a new transformer made good sense.

     

    As you said, this is not an inexpensive rebuild, but you get a fantastic piece of gear for your efforts.

     

    Thanks for sharing.

     

    DAB

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  • tin_xdevs
    tin_xdevs over 9 years ago

    Thanks guys, you only following here, seems so image

     

    Since ranges 1mA and more working OK, we can rule out R210,R211,R212,R213 current shunt path, as well as input relays K201,K202,K203.

    image

     

    It is not likely that issue to be damaged JFET switches Q201-Q205 for low-current shunts R209-R206, as it’s less probable that all of them died.

    So I will test control circuitry first, which consists of U204 and U205 LM339 comparator for level shifting, U203 4094 shift register and RP200 generic resistor network and CR205 zener.

    One thing we know from initial inspection – resistor network RP200 was re-soldered by previous owner. I have bought RP200 replacement before, just in case, so it could come handy.

     

    I do have MC14094BCP replacement, left from Keithley 2001 repair project, in case I would need one.

    image

    HP's CLIP listed LM339 comparator as SELECTED, what would they select in it? Offset voltage?

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  • Robert Peter Oakes
    Robert Peter Oakes over 9 years ago in reply to tin_xdevs

    I dont think it is important, the comparators are driving switches and as the common - rail is held at +2V and the output will be either +5 or -6 (or -18 on U205A/B) but nothing inbetween. I wouls say as long as the replacement will handle +-18V (+5 -18) you should be good to go

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  • Former Member
    Former Member over 9 years ago

    Nice work and very interesting. BTW how did you decide what replacement fan to use for the original Pabst 812L - did you see some specs for that one somewhere?

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  • tin_xdevs
    tin_xdevs over 9 years ago in reply to Former Member

    Woa, comment here image I used NMB 2410SB-04W-B20-B00 60x25mm 12V fan. Currently stuck with dreaded Error 114 - multislope rundown convergence, related to A/D board A3. Already spend over 50 hours on it, so far no crack. Going to replace A3 board to another one, I'm afraid. I maintain worklog on my site more actively. So you might want to check on progress there.

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  • tin_xdevs
    tin_xdevs over 9 years ago

    Here's current state of progress.

     

    DCI low ranges were fixed:

     

    I replaced U203 4094 mux, but likely problem was only RP200.

     

    Bodged little SMD adapter for 4094, as I did not had proper DIP-version that time.

    image

    After removal both U203 and RP200, issue become obvious. RP200 missing common pin 1 for resistor array!

    I replaced it with new 220Kohm 7-resistor SIP array. Worth to note, that schematics does show RP200 as pack of 100KΩ resistors, while BOM and actual A1 PCBA have 220K array installed.

    I used 220K, following original part resistance value.

     

    4094 handiwork:

    image image

    Someone would say it’s wrong way to do things, but I was desperate to see unit working..

    image

    And it did, no problems on low current ranges anymore.

    image

    Unit also does complete whole selftest diagnostings. Was very happy to see this SELF TEST PASSED message after all the work we had done above.

    I did also ACAL and it passed without problems.


    SYSTEM ERROR 114 — multislope rundown convergence

     

    Well, I left unit working overnight, just sampling 10VDC from Keithley 2400. No problems, did couple self-test runs, all pass with flying colors.
    Then connected 1Meg resistance from ESI DB52 decade box and left it sampling for about 6 hours. After I come back to check on it, there was ERR lit and measurements halted. Pressing Enter key allow to do some measurements but it halted with ERR after few seconds.

     

    Checking revealed ERRSTR 114 SYSTEM ERROR — multislope rundown convergence.

     

    It does happen sometimes after a second, sometimes after three seconds on any DCV,DCI,OHM,OHMF functions, and does not occur on ACV,ACI,FREQ,PERIOD or digitize functions.
    This error is not listed in repair manual, but there is Service note for Modification to Fix Intermittent Error “Multislope Rundown Conversion” which probably related and suggesting nothing else than replacing whole 03458-69503 A3 A/D Converter and Inguard Logic Assembly. This is not a good option for us, due to involved costs of new A/D board.

     

    Spend so far over 50 hours trying to narrow down cause of this issue, tested lot of signals on A1 DC board, A2 AC board (later discovered this board is not in DC path which caused error), A3 A/D board.

    Replaced comparators on A3 board, replaced most of opamps on it, tested resistors, did marginal testing on all power and reference rails injecting some currents into feedback to raise/lower voltages, did thermal margining, heating up different parts and even tried to cool U180 A/D switching/current control ASIC with TEC module. No luck. Going to replace A3 board now to see how it goes...

     

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  • tin_xdevs
    tin_xdevs over 9 years ago

    Got replacement A3 A/D board. Well, you guess correctly, dreaded ERROR 114 fixed, meter is working now.

     

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  • tin_xdevs
    tin_xdevs over 9 years ago

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    More detailed video on repair.

     

    Now meter working fine, left it running 24/7, will see if it keep that way. Hope so.

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  • DAB
    DAB over 9 years ago in reply to tin_xdevs

    It is nice to see a bit of old equipment brought back from the grave.

     

    Great project,

     

    DAB

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