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Forum Open Source Chemical  Analysis [Everyone Welcome]
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  • Replies 19 replies
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Related

Open Source Chemical  Analysis [Everyone Welcome]

m.ratcliffe
m.ratcliffe over 10 years ago

A lot of us here are working on hydroponics or aquaponics, a lot of the sensors are outdated and it would be great to have more information about the growing fluid at our disposal. On this page it would be great if we could discuss general techniques and potential prototypes to measure all the things we feel are important in a growing fluid.

 

Aims, to make a cheap [sub $XXX] spectrometer[or other] capable of measuring the quantity of chemicals in a liquid:

>What is needed :

Automated Green House Blog:20.1 - Toying with Chemical Analysis - Essential Nutrients

 

What is bad and can accumulate:

> [Coming Soon]

>Other things we can think of

 

 

Types of sensing [this will grow larger I hope and each one will have its pro's and cons listed]

>IR Spectrometry

>UV Spectrometry

>Mass Spectrometer [Will build this later]

 

Other ideas:

>Change frequency of AC EC measurments, maybe we can see polarisation happen for each element at a certain frequancy.

>Charge a probe to +5 and measure its depletion curve. maybe there will be peaks at certain times as polarisation is reversed.

 

I know very little on this topic right now, but maybe with a few of use we can make it work.

 

 

Maybe we could share the load between us and each tackle a small portion of the problem each, ie write up a little about what we need to measure, each sum up a common technique used today and pro's/cons of automating it.

 

If anyone can think of a better place to house this discussion on Element14, please let everyone know. And could one of the admin tag everyone in it, so all of the other great contest content does not put it in their shadow.

 

Some Useful Links:

http://store.publiclab.org/products/desktop-spectrometry-kit-3-0

 

 

 

 

Message was edited by: Michael Ratcliffe Anyone can Alter the content, please leave a short summary here of the changes

 

Contributors:

m.ratcliffe

RWReynolds

shabaz

michaelkellett

 

DAB I cant find a way to link you, but do you want to join the project?

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  • RWReynolds
    RWReynolds over 10 years ago +1
    Cool! Been waiting on this discussion michael. I will jump in shortly. Right now I'm working on EZR32WG code. I have all the code from the EFM32ZG ported and working well. So, I can controll my rotator…
  • m.ratcliffe
    m.ratcliffe over 10 years ago in reply to RWReynolds +1
    Great news, if we all work on it a bit at a time when we have free time it should still make great progress! I am working on a Ph controller with a local aquaponics group, as always the code/build tutorial…
  • RWReynolds
    RWReynolds over 10 years ago in reply to m.ratcliffe +1
    Well, it had to happen Michael. The good news - My recovery from ankle replacement surgery has been remarkable. 20 years of, often, excruciating swelling and pain gone. I still have physical therapy and…
Parents
  • shabaz
    shabaz over 10 years ago

    Hi Michael,

     

    Do you have any kind of design in mind? I've read in places that people can achieve some results with a compact disc as the diffraction element, but an optical diffraction grating costs a bit : (

    It would be worth investigating astronomy resources, because they are interested in spectrometers too, and some people have constructed them using a grating, mirrors, optical slit and line CCD (lots on ebay) and appropriate circuitry. However, this is in the several hundred-dollars ballpark minimum (and more if experimentation is needed!). Those CCDs (probably intended for fax machines) are good for quite a large portion of spectrum. Specifying the grating, mirrors etc is a hard thing though without either experimentation (which could get expensive!) or maths, but I don't know any optics experts : ( Free optical simulation software is usually limited to a few elements, not enough to simulate the entire thing : (

    I have a few optics parts (with part numbers and specifications so it can be replicated) so I will try to see what I can do with them when I get some time, but it really will be guesswork to an extent for me image I purchased them in mind to experiment with building a spectrometer a long time ago, but the parts

    are with near-certainty sub-optimal since some of it was guesswork based on what I had read at the time, and what I could calculate (which was not much).

    There could be more unconventional methods that are cheaper to do, but I've not really investigated those.

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  • m.ratcliffe
    m.ratcliffe over 10 years ago in reply to shabaz

    shabaz

     

    Do you know why we are currently using diffraction to split wave lengths, could we not have the whole received spectrum hit a conventional optical sensor [multiple wave length sensors with spectrum blocked coatings]  and split it in the software.

     

    Ie have ten sensors, each only allowing a certain frequncy to get to the sensor [like security cameras have uv filters].

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  • shabaz
    shabaz over 10 years ago in reply to m.ratcliffe

    I think the difficulty here is finding sharp narrowband optical filters. They may cost as much (or more) than diffraction gratings. If they are not narrow and sharply filtered then there is loss in resolution. Plus, there would be some loss in the optic material even in the pass region. The diffraction grating is likely more efficient.

    (This is just a guess though - I really am not knowledgeable in optics at all).

     

    I wish we had some optics experts on this thread! : (

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  • michaelkellett
    michaelkellett over 9 years ago in reply to shabaz

    I'm not an optical expert but this may help:

     

    http://store.publiclab.org/products/desktop-spectrometry-kit-3-0

     

    There is a lot of good information here and PublicLab seem to have some optical people on board who know what they are doing.

     

    The price range is good - one of these + RPI + camera ?

     

    MK

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  • shabaz
    shabaz over 9 years ago in reply to michaelkellett

    Nice simple design : ) I just tried separating a DVD-R, it was quite easy with just a fingernail, the two halves split apart easily, leaving one side that is clear although with a slight-translucent pattern to it depending on how the halves split. However that entire half is usable I think, I could easily see a spectrum through it by holding it at an angle to a lamp.

    I suppose their photo emulsion slit could be easy to make with an old camera and b&w film (if that and developer is still available) although probably cheaper just to buy a prepared emulsion slit from that publiclab store.

     

    Anyway, your post reminded me of this childrens' optics kit that costs just $18 from Edmund Optics:

    image

    It really is very basic (a few plastic lenses, some filter sheets, a plastic mirror etc) but does come with a thin plastic sheet of diffraction grating (500 lines/mm) mounted in a card frame.

    That could be used for a more consistent, repeatable design I guess. It behaves similar to the half DVD, i.e. it is transmission, not a reflective.

    It is a shame the kit doesn't have any slit.

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  • shabaz
    shabaz over 9 years ago in reply to michaelkellett

    Nice simple design : ) I just tried separating a DVD-R, it was quite easy with just a fingernail, the two halves split apart easily, leaving one side that is clear although with a slight-translucent pattern to it depending on how the halves split. However that entire half is usable I think, I could easily see a spectrum through it by holding it at an angle to a lamp.

    I suppose their photo emulsion slit could be easy to make with an old camera and b&w film (if that and developer is still available) although probably cheaper just to buy a prepared emulsion slit from that publiclab store.

     

    Anyway, your post reminded me of this childrens' optics kit that costs just $18 from Edmund Optics:

    image

    It really is very basic (a few plastic lenses, some filter sheets, a plastic mirror etc) but does come with a thin plastic sheet of diffraction grating (500 lines/mm) mounted in a card frame.

    That could be used for a more consistent, repeatable design I guess. It behaves similar to the half DVD, i.e. it is transmission, not a reflective.

    It is a shame the kit doesn't have any slit.

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