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Member's Forum Does anyone know of a good circuit design to demonstrate echo on voice communications?
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Does anyone know of a good circuit design to demonstrate echo on voice communications?

rad_bcit
rad_bcit over 2 years ago

Many years ago, one of the things that attracted me into taking telecommunications training was a demo illustrating the effects of echo on a person’s ability to communicate over a telephone.

The user picked up a plain old telephone handset and attempted to speak and, as with most telephones, as portion of the voice signal from the transmitter/mouthpiece was echoed back as “sidetone” via the receiver/earpiece. At some settings of the device, I found it very difficult to speak because of the echo.

A snippet from https://getvoip.com/blog/phone-echoing/ (Rebecca Drew) explains the effect I experienced:

Echoing interferes with our understanding of another person’s voice in a phone call, and it confuses a person who is speaking because they hear themselves on the line. The problem is the delay between the spoken word in the outbound call stream and its reflection in the return stream. …

If the delay is less than 25 milliseconds, it’s almost undetectable. If the delay is around 55 milliseconds, the user experience is similar to having 2 people saying the same thing at the same time (a chorus-like effect). This level of echo or delay, though noticeable, is tolerable.

Once a delay increases beyond 55 milliseconds it becomes very annoying and distracting to users. At this point, it becomes nearly impossible to carry on a conversation. For a normal user, the echo of their own voice will essentially break down the call by interrupting their thought process.

My hope is that I can reproduce this fascinating demo for use in student recruiting events.

Does anyone have any ideas, circuit diagrams, or resources that would help me get this done?

I don’t have a large budget, but I have access to many tools and electronics components to get this done from scratch. However, I also think a black box modifying a prebuilt device such as a musician’s effects pedal such as the MXR Carbon Copy, would do the job, making more efficient use of the limited amount of time I have available.

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  • beacon_dave
    beacon_dave over 2 years ago +2
    You just need a microphone, an audio delay and some headphones. You can get the same effect with in ear monitors if the delay from your microphone through the mixer back to the in ear monitors goes beyond…
  • rad_bcit
    rad_bcit over 2 years ago in reply to beacon_dave +2
    Thanks for the reply, beacon_dave. Your suggestion of video has given me another idea. Perhaps I could show the same video image on multiple systems, each displaying a different amount of pixelation…
  • shabaz
    shabaz over 2 years ago in reply to rad_bcit +2
    Great! If you get stuck feel free to ask, I'm sure eventually one of us will figure it out. It's definitely an interesting topic. I recall talking to an ex audio-engineer once, he mentioned that in…
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  • shabaz
    0 shabaz over 2 years ago

    Matlab would be quite good. If this is a college, they may already have a license, otherwise there may be a demo license (I've not checked). The "home user" license is OK-ish priced.

    With that, people could talk into the PC microphone, and then apply different amounts of echo (there are examples on the Internet), and then play the result, or see it graphically, e.g. here the orange is the original signal, and green is the signal with the echo:

    image

    There may be fancier 3D plots that might look interesting too.

    If I were a student, it would encourage me to want to know more.

    Otherwise, if you wish to do it with more hardware, then a DSP board would be useful (then it can be done in real-time too). There's a simple one here, which is pretty cheap, and uses a ready-made module so there's no complex soldering either: 

     Wave Miner: A Pi-controlled Digital Signal Processor 

     Wave Miner: 10 Experiments with a Pi Digital Signal Processor (DSP) 

    With that DSP board, it is possible to plug in a speaker and any audio source (Line input) and listen in real-time. However, it's quicker to just go the Matlab route.

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  • shabaz
    0 shabaz over 2 years ago

    Matlab would be quite good. If this is a college, they may already have a license, otherwise there may be a demo license (I've not checked). The "home user" license is OK-ish priced.

    With that, people could talk into the PC microphone, and then apply different amounts of echo (there are examples on the Internet), and then play the result, or see it graphically, e.g. here the orange is the original signal, and green is the signal with the echo:

    image

    There may be fancier 3D plots that might look interesting too.

    If I were a student, it would encourage me to want to know more.

    Otherwise, if you wish to do it with more hardware, then a DSP board would be useful (then it can be done in real-time too). There's a simple one here, which is pretty cheap, and uses a ready-made module so there's no complex soldering either: 

     Wave Miner: A Pi-controlled Digital Signal Processor 

     Wave Miner: 10 Experiments with a Pi Digital Signal Processor (DSP) 

    With that DSP board, it is possible to plug in a speaker and any audio source (Line input) and listen in real-time. However, it's quicker to just go the Matlab route.

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  • shabaz
    0 shabaz over 2 years ago in reply to shabaz

    These are the steps to do an echo with Matlab:

    1. Download the echo_gen.m file and save it to the Matlab working directory. This is not my file, I found it on the web. Can't recall where.

    2. Type the following into the Matlab command line, to record from the mic:

    sound_obj = audiorecorder(44100,16,1);

    record(sound_obj)

    stop(sound_obj)

    3. Type the following to perform the echo. You can change the delay parameter to a different amount:

    samples=getaudiodata(sound_obj);

    delay=0.1;

    gain=1.0;

    echosamples = echo_gen(samples, 44100, delay, gain);

    4. Type the following to play the result:

    sound(echosamples, 44100);

    5. If you want to stop the playback, type:

    clear sound;

    6. If you want to draw a chart, type:

    plot(echosamples);

    hold on;

    plot(samples);

    image

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  • rad_bcit
    0 rad_bcit over 2 years ago in reply to shabaz

    Thanks, shabaz!

    I do have access to Matlab and will try this out. We don't teach the use of Matlab in our program since we cover hands-on technical skills and networking (CCNA, etc.) not engineering, but that shouldn't stop me from using it.

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  • shabaz
    0 shabaz over 2 years ago in reply to rad_bcit

    Great! If you get stuck feel free to ask, I'm sure eventually one of us will figure it out.

    It's definitely an interesting topic.

    I recall talking to an ex audio-engineer once, he mentioned that in the past, sound studios would simply cut tape to make their echos and other effects! Some of that early stuff occurred during Beatles era, in studios in London apparently. I know nothing about it though.

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  • beacon_dave
    0 beacon_dave over 2 years ago in reply to shabaz
    shabaz said:
    sound studios would simply cut tape to make their echos and other effects

    Yes, reel to reel tape decks would be used either with tape loops or a tape spanning two decks to add delay.  I think there are some examples on the BBC Radiophonic Workshop archives.

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  • beacon_dave
    0 beacon_dave over 2 years ago in reply to beacon_dave

    1965: How DELIA DERBYSHIRE made the DOCTOR WHO theme I Tomorrow's World I Music I BBC Archive

    https://youtu.be/qsRuhCflRyg?t=175

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  • shabaz
    0 shabaz over 2 years ago in reply to beacon_dave

    That's awesome! 

    Pity it may likely be blocked from non-UK audiences, but it was fascinating to watch. 

    For anyone curious that cannot watch it, it shows banks of reel-to-reel decks, all playing loops of tapes in synchronization:

    image

    It sounds just like the music in 1960s TV series' : )

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  • beacon_dave
    0 beacon_dave over 2 years ago in reply to shabaz

    There is some more 60s stuff in the archives here:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/archive/electronic-music/zk8gpg8

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  • bradfordmiller
    0 bradfordmiller over 2 years ago in reply to shabaz

    Very cool. Brings back memories of electronic music classes I took in the 70s. We also used springs for reverb and simple electronic circuits (e.g. ring modulators) to get interesting effects.

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  • rad_bcit
    0 rad_bcit over 2 years ago in reply to bradfordmiller

    This is super-cool! It plays for me in Canada. I sent it off to a friend who mixes music on a high-end Mac. Mixing electronic music was certainly a lot more hardware-intensive back in the 60's.

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