Strange Prices

I expect BBB pricing to remain "strange" and disparate across the world, because Premier Farnell isn't a BBB manufacturer as it is for Raspberry Pi, and so different forces are in play.  There is also an inevitable conflict of interest to some degree, since every BBB sold probably means one less sale of Pi Model B.  We'll never know how that's being played, as it's an internal business matter.  They've already raised the price once, as BBB was initially listed at £27.<something> in the UK and now it's listed at £30.99.

As you point out though, their price leeway is limited.  If BBB is priced too high, people will just go elsewhere.

The same applies to stock issues as it does to price issues.  At least in the UK, Farnell is ordering relatively few BBBs each week and there are never any in stock, so customers may be going elsewhere.  Currently their stock info says:

Availability:  Awaiting Delivery

 

1000 will be available for delivery on 27 May, 2013

5000 will be available for delivery on 2 Jun, 2013

1500 will be available for delivery on 3 Jun, 2013

I suspect that CircuitCo doesn't allow them any greater numbers so it's not Farnell's fault, but that's no comfort to eager customers.  Those who have succumbed to the BBB feeding frenzy will go elsewhere.

> because Premier Farnell isn't a BBB manufacturer as it is for Raspberry Pi

Do we really know what this difference amounts to?

Premier Farnell doesn't actually manufacture either device.

Sony manufactures the RPi, and Circuitco manufactures the BBB.

I think RS Components is directly involved in testing returned RPis,

but I don't think Farnell even does that.

Farnell may be involved to some extent in supplying components.

We have heard for example that RS didn't order enough Broadcom cpu's

early on.  But we have also heard that the RPF got stuck owning

inventories of memory chips.  So it isn't exactly clear to what extent

Farnell is involved in component inventories for RPi compared to BBB.

coder27 wrote:

 

Do we really know what this difference amounts to?

Unlikely we ever would.  But basically what RS & Farnell bring to the table is going to be their wallets and their connections for sourcing components.  Probably they also have existing relationships with the contract boardshops for other reasons, which makes getting off the starting blocks that much easier.

The situation with the RPi and who does what, owns what, etc is as clear as mud, Don't expect any change there.  Optimistically I'd expect things to be easier for something like the Beaglebone as the designs are fully open.. You still have the same problem if TI don't produce enough AM3359/8's though.

Do we know if Farnell's restrictions on RPi sales to non-businesses in

certain countries such as Belgium and Netherlands also applies to BBB?

Since those restrictions seem to be generic in the countries concerned and nothing specific to the RPi itself, I don't see why there would be any difference.

coder27 wrote:

 

> because Premier Farnell isn't a BBB manufacturer as it is for Raspberry Pi

 

Premier Farnell doesn't actually manufacture either device.

Sony manufactures the RPi, and Circuitco manufactures the BBB.

Building under contract/license is not what most people mean when they say "Company X manufactures product Y".  By that interpretation, none of the bazillion companies in the west that get their PCBs printed, assembled and often cased in the far east would be "manufacturers of their own product".  Strictly speaking it's true, but it's not what people mean.  They mean the controlling owner of the design that can sell the product.

Sony does not have the freedom to sell the Pi directly to companies of its choice nor to end users, because it is manufacturing the boards as a sub-contractor only.  Only Premier Farnell and RS have that freedom, becaused they're RPF's two manufacturing partners.

Farnell does not have the same relationship with BBB as it has with Pi.  BeagleBoard.org, CircuitCo and TI are in roughly the same relationship over BBB as RPF, Farnell and Broadcom are over Pi, and the actual BBB subcontractor assembly lines could be running anywhere.  CircuitCo could even subcontract the production to that Sony plant in Wales if they wished.  As a subcontractor, Sony wouldn't gain any rights to it.

Farnell doesn't have any special privileges over BBB as it does over Pi, it's just another retailer of the BBB whereas it is a controlling partner for the Pi.  As selsinork points out, Farnell could become more if it wanted to because BBB is open hardware, but AFAWK that's not the case currently.  It's not selling any own-branded versions, nor getting its own special stock manufactured under license from Beagleboard.org/CircuitCo for itself.  It just preorders their standard product in bulk.

It's entirely a 2nd tier retailer for BBB, no different to Adafruit.  Buying stock in bulk from product owners is very different to subcontracting your own product's manufacture to an outfit like Sony.

Agreed that Farnell has a more exclusive arrangement for RPi than BBB,

but besides that, I don't know of any tangible differences.  Yes, I've heard

Farnell described as "manufacturing partners" for RPi, but that's a really

vague term.  I don't think it's a coincidence that Farnell and RS both used

the same China factory, and both now use the same Sony factory, and

both came out with the 512MB version at exactly the same time. 

That indicates to me that manufacturing is mostly outside of their control.

You will remember when the first 10K batch was "missing", Liz suggested

asking Farnell where they were, but Farnell suggested asking Liz.

I don't think Farnell is selling "own-branded versions" of the RPi.  The branding

is RPF from what I can tell.

coder27 wrote:

 

I don't think Farnell is selling "own-branded versions" of the RPi.  The branding

is RPF from what I can tell.

All of the pain but none of the gain?

Farnell does get some gain though from relinquishing all design control to RPF, and less pain.  Only one party is then to blame for Pi design faults and limitations.  I wouldn't wish that burden on Farnell's shoulders.  If one's going to take on design responsibility for a product, better to start with a solid foundation.  Technically, BBB would be a far stronger one.

coder27 wrote:

 

I don't think Farnell is selling "own-branded versions" of the RPi.  The branding

is RPF from what I can tell.

All of the pain but none of the gain?

Farnell does get some gain though from relinquishing all design control to RPF, and less pain.  Only one party is then to blame for Pi design faults and limitations.  I wouldn't wish that burden on Farnell's shoulders.  If one's going to take on design responsibility for a product, better to start with a solid foundation.  Technically, BBB would be a far stronger one.

> Technically, BBB would be a far stronger one.

Yes, as you've noted before, particularly for education uses where

the faster cpu makes a big difference for X applications like Scratch,

Python IDE, and web browsing.  As you noted, since the BBB design

is open, the Sony plant could build it, and RPF could perhaps use it

as their "educational release", and save themselves a lot of effort trying to

upgrade their existing design.

coder27 wrote:

 

As you noted, since the BBB design

is open, the Sony plant could build it, and RPF could perhaps use it

as their "educational release", and save themselves a lot of effort trying to

upgrade their existing design.

While Sony certainly has the competence and industrial muscle, they would seem to be a very unlikely candidate for manufacturing and releasing an open hardware product themselves.  Their entire history over the last decade has consisted of stamping out open access even when they provided it initially (OtherOS on PS3), releasing hidden rootkits, adding DRM to everything, and using their own proprietary media wherever possible.  Not many companies have earned themselves a techie boycott owing to their unfriendly practices, but Sony has that distinction.  The word "open" isn't part of their native vocabulary.

As subcontracted manufacturers though, they could certainly produce fine open hardware products despite their personal disinterest in it.

As an aside to this.

E14 have the PiFace branded with their logo.

The pic here is not branded

http://www.element14.com/community/docs/DOC-52857?ICID=rasp-accessory-group

but the ones received were (and I have one sourced directly as well as the road test)

http://www.element14.com/community/roadTestReviews/1452

They also seem to own Embest as the logo states (An Element14 company)

http://www.element14.com/community/docs/DOC-53007/l/embedded-pi--a-triple-play-platform-for-raspberry-pi-arduino-and-32-bit-embedded-arm?CMP=SOM-RASPI-ARDUINO-EMBEDDEDPI-LAUNCH-GPLUS

Link to embest

http://www.armkits.com/

So perhaps there is more going on behind the scenes than we are lead to believe....

Mark

Wow!  A lot of food for thought there.

Mark Beckett wrote:

 

So perhaps there is more going on behind the scenes than we are lead to believe....

Understatement.

Sorry I forgot to add.

If you try to find a RaspberryPi on the NZ website (even if you have the code number) it takes you to a front page, that suggests you can order and its 3 weeks.

try clicking on modelB http://nz.element14.com/raspberry-pi?ref=lookahead

You then proceed to order, and you have to choose the country (even though you started on the nz website).

Next is it a business or individual.

Choose individual and you get a list of distributors that for NZ is trademe, and thats like ebay.

Choose business and you get to the same code you started with and its available next day from AUS....

http://nz.element14.com//jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?id=2191863&Ntt=2191863&

I'm not sure if this is similar to reply5 from coder, but yet you can buy it here.

I was fortunate that the NZ rep showed me how to go straight to it, so it could be linked for an article.

Mark

edit

I note the NZ site now allows direct access, but only if you choose the right code.

http://nz.element14.com/raspberry-pi/raspbrry-modb-512m/sbc-raspberry-pi-model-b-512mb/dp/219186301

gets you there, but the other one (same price, same numbers available) doesn't

mark

Message was edited by: Mark Beckett

Mark Beckett wrote:

 

They also seem to own Embest as the logo states (An Element14 company)

For a while now

http://www.element14.com/community/docs/DOC-48555/l/premier-farnell-acquires-shenzhen-embest-technology-co-ltd-enhancing-its-offering-for-electronic-designers

Mark Beckett wrote:

 

I note the NZ site now allows direct access, but only if you choose the right code.

The whole jumping through hoops to get to a page where you can actually order one is a direct follow on of the 29th Feb 2012 when e14, farnell, newark, rs, allied were effectively taken offline by the demand, none of the distributors seemed to really grasp the scale.

If you do a search for beaglebone black on uk.farnell.com today you get a similar landing page (not quite so many hoops), but unlike the Pi you can go direct - even selecting the Pi from the list of items in the relevant section gets you the landing page on the uk site last time I tried and not being able to search makes it difficult to get to the cases and such like

The NZ rep made a comment about why, but I can't recall his exact words.

It is a shame they have the blanket three weeks, as I'm sure most people will just go elsewhere, not knowing its next day.

The interesting thing is they now (NZ) have the new code in the search, and this hoop jumping didn't affect the A version.

re the Embest

I didn't see (or note) that, so thanks.

I'm not sure how they use it, because I got this back from the NZ rep, when I posted to Pat Kelly in April 2013.

I believe there is some merit in partnering with someone who has the facility to manufacture, carry and then supply, in much the same way as E14 and RaspberryPi.

We don’t have facilities for manufacturing, the Raspberry Pi is a unique situation where contract manufacturers were employed due to the high manufacture volume. There are low volume contract manufacturers in Christchurch I can put you in touch with if you like.

Mark

I'm not actually surprised e14 don't have their own facilities, very few places do these days. It's simply not worth it unless you want to get into the contract manufacturing business yourself - or are big enough to keep the place running to capacity with your own products.

I worked in the contract manufacturing business for many years, and the production lines were kept going 24x7 as the necessary equipment is very expensive to let sit idle.

Having moved on to a major brand-name manufacturer, you now find that even they have outsourced virtually all of it to contract manufacturers as well.

reviving an older thread, I came across this:

Embest: BB Black Development Platform based on TI Sitara AM3358 Processor Exclusively for China

http://www.element14.com/community/docs/DOC-54131?CMP=PRR-APC-13-0013

so it looks like E14 is in fact making BBB, as discussed hypothetically above,

just not in the Sony factory (yet?).

The RPi has a similar China-exclusive manufacturer, Egoman.

Embest is owned by E14, as of 5 July 2012, as selsinork noted above.

They were founded in 2000 and have made ARM boards, among other things.

I suppose it's possible that Embest, which is based in Shenzhen, where the

original RPi factory was located, is actually the original RPi factory.

Now they make E14's Embedded Pi product as well as PiFace, and the TI Sabre Lite.