Eagle Software

Good morning, Brian,

On 03/13/2014 01:49 AM, Brian Mcclung wrote:

...

First question, is there any way to stop Eagle from carrying on point to

point connections.

Not sure of your context here.  If it has to do with the autorouter, I

can't help.  I don't use it.

I am using a XF2H-3415 surface mount connector, .5 mm spacing.

...

I have my board layout done, I have two 12 pin single row headers on

each side of the board, and the other connector on the other side.   And

I see the Ratsnest.

 

I think the pad color denotes side of board, but I'm not sure how to

check or change that.

The default colors are red for the top layer (layer 1), and blue for the

bottom layer (layer 16).  All SMD parts are designed in the library to

go on the top.  The part can then be mirrored in the board design to

place it on the bottom.

 

This is where the confusion starts.

 

I can't get the autorouter to start,and I come up with 34 DRC errors.

The Width error you're getting is because the pads are narrower than the

minimum width setting in DRC.  Go to DRC=>Sizes and change the minimum

width.  The datasheet recommends a 0.25mm minimum width.  Go ahead and

enter "0.25mm" in this field and click Apply.

In general, the DRC settings should be the greater of the limitations of

the board fabrication house, and your design requirements.  Each fab

house should publish these limitations, usually under "capabilities".

DRC also pays attention to your Class settings.  Each net can be

assigned a Class that describes further restrictions on wires of that

class.  DRC will use the greater of the values assigned in the DRC

settings and those of the net's class.  For instance, your DRC settings

may define a minimum trace width of 8 mils, and a minimum clearance of 8

mils, which is fine for signal level wires.  Our designs sometimes use

high voltages close to 3,000 V.  I assign HV nets to a "HighVoltage"

class and force a clearance of 40 mils.

You may wish to add a high current class for power supply wires and give

them a relatively large width and drill size.

Your board layout alone does not indicate a need for such classes.

As far as not being able to start the auto-router, this problem may be

related to the fact that there's a DRC error on every pad.

I'm a beginner, probably making a silly mistake, but Eagle also has a

much more complicated set of DRC rules than I'm used to.

There's one other very important point I need to make.  The hashed black

and yellow bar across the top indicates that forward and back annotation

has been severed.  This is caused by closing the schematic while working

on the board, or vice versa.  When working on a design both the

schematic and board editors should be open.  This allows changes to in

one editor to be reflected in the other.

To restore consistency, run "ERC" from .  The resulting report will

identify the differences between the board and the schematic.  If there

are any differences, these need to be fixed before consistency is restored.

More of a personal preference, I would suggest using a black background

on the board editor, and a white background on the schematic editor.

This can be changed in Options=>User Interface.

HTH,

    - Chuck

Hi Chuck

I'm still having the same problem, but other questions first.

How do you change the units.

How do you define the grid in such a way that your measurement steps are smaller than the area to be measured.

Back to my original problem.

I checked the parameter I think you specified, and the size is already set to 10 mils.

But this is even more important, because I tend to be very critical of software.   I'm self taught, with help obviously, but software with a steep learning curve is very distasteful.

What I want to know is if these errors are caused by a design rule, why is Eagle not self adjusting to what is a standard part.

Why is Eagle not self adjusting, and is this going to be a persistent feature when using Eagle.  Is this something that every time I do a board, I am going to have to go in adjust my design rules?

I'm really hoping I'm misunderstanding something here.

Thanks

Brian

Brian Mcclung wrote:

How do you change the units.

 

How do you define the grid in such a way that your measurement steps are smaller than the area to be measured.

Use the grid command.  (Either click on the grid icon, or just type "grid".)  You can set the grid to whatever you want.  There's even a "Finest" button if you really want to go crazy...

But this is even more important, because I tend to be very critical of software.  I'm self taught, with help obviously, but software with a steep learning curve is very distasteful.

 

Some of the best tools have the steepest learning curves, but the climb is worth it...

Why is Eagle not self adjusting, and is this going to be a persistent feature when using Eagle.  Is this something that every time I do a board, I am going to have to go in adjust my design rules?

Pardon me if I'm jumping into the middle of things and missed something, but have you set up your own directory structure yet?  In other words, if you use the EAGLE control panel and go to options->directories, is everything still pointing to something that starts with "$EAGLEDIR"?  I'd suggest changing at least the Design Rules and Projects entries to point to something in your own documents directory.  Copy the default.dru file from the $EAGLEDIR into your own Design Rules directory, and edit it to suit your needs.  Every time you start EAGLE, it will load that file.

It's also probably worth taking a look in the Scripts directory at the eagle.scr file.  A lot of settings can be changed there, and they will be loaded every time...

I appreciate all your help, but I'm putting out an alert.

Is there any experienced user of eagle that would be willing to call me

and walk me through a few basic steps.

I appreciate all your help.

My name is Brian, and my number is 213-986-7914

--

To view any images and attachments in this post, visit:

http://www.element14.com/community/message/106230

On 03/13/2014 08:26 PM, Brian Mcclung wrote:

Hi Chuck

 

I'm still having the same problem, but other questions first.

 

How do you change the units.

How do you define the grid in such a way that your measurement steps are

smaller than the area to be measured.

As Doug mentioned, you can use the grid command.  Try "grid mil 5" to

set the snap to every 5 mils, or "grid mil 1" to set it to 1 mil.  You

can go smaller or larger to suit your needs.  You can also append a

second integer to this that affects the display of the grid.  Try "grid

mil 1 5".  This will set your snap to 1 mil, and the grid display to

every 5 snaps (5 mils).  "grid mil 5 5" will set the snap to 5 mils, and

the display to 5 snaps (25 mils).

You can also specify other units, such as mm or in.

Back to my original problem.

 

I checked the parameter I think you specified, and the size is already

set to 10 mils.

Well, that's the source of the DRC problems.  If the pads are on .5mm

spacing, and each pad is .25mm wide, that leaves only .25mm of spacing.

That converts to 9.8 mils.  Try setting the size to 9 mils.

This also means that the wire coming off the pad must be less than 9.8

mils - a 10 mil trace will create a DRC clearance error.

What I want to know is if these errors are caused by a design rule, why

is Eagle not self adjusting to what is a standard part.

That would be making assumptions about the capabilities of the board fab

house, and your design limitations.

Why is Eagle not self adjusting, and is this going to be a persistent

feature when using Eagle.  Is this something that every time I do a

board, I am going to have to go in adjust my design rules?

Basically, yes.  If you are using all PTH components, there's no need

for such tight tolerances.  For SMD designs, obviously the fab

requirements have small tolerances.  I'm sure you can change the default

design rules for new designs, but I don't know where that would be done.

HTH,

    - Chuck

Here is where I'm having a problem with the design rules.

This particular part that was giving me problems was obsolete 7 years ago.  It has been replaced with the M model, but the spacing is the same.   This particular obsolete part has been around 10 years.

What legitimate board house could not handle that spacing.

So let me retract my question, why are the DRC rules not self adjusting.   I could further debate the point, but I wont.

I never changed the DRC rules.

Now my question is this.

Why would Eagle default to parameters that don't reflect current manufacturing capabilities.

Is that spacing really beyond typical manufacturing capability?

If it isn't, I was caused unnecessary trouble by the parameters it defaulted to.

Thank you for your response.

On 03/14/2014 02:03 PM, Brian Mcclung wrote:

Here is where I'm having a problem with the design rules.

 

This particular part that was giving me problems was obsolete 7 years

ago.  It has been replaced with the M model, but the spacing is the

same.   This particular obsolete part has been around 10 years.

 

What legitimate board house could not handle that spacing.

Most can.  But many of us use bench-top etching systems to fab our own

boards.  I used to do this with PTH boards.  Once I moved to surface

mount, I couldn't achieve the tolerances required so I've had to use a

real board fab house.

So let me retract my question, why are the DRC rules not self

adjusting.   I could further debate the point, but I wont.

Self adjusting to what?  Just automatically change the tolerances so DRC

doesn't produce errors?  That would defeat the purpose of DRC.

I never changed the DRC rules.

Perhaps you should change them to what suits your design.  10 mil

spacing is fine for PTH boards.  SMD boards clearly need smaller tolerances.

Now my question is this.

 

Why would Eagle default to parameters that don't reflect current

manufacturing capabilities.

 

Is that spacing really beyond typical manufacturing capability?

 

If it isn't, I was caused unnecessary trouble by the parameters it

defaulted to.

If you don't like the defaults, change them.  You can do so through the

control panel.  In the tree, expand Design Rules, double click

default.dru and edit as necessary.

HTH,

    - Chuck

Hi Chuck

I appreciate your response, but

Nothing is going to make feel better about the way Eagle is defaulted.   You could spend all day teaching me how to set up my design rules, I would certainly appreciate and learn something from it, but it wouldn't change my opinion about the default parameters.

Perhaps the clue here is right in something you said.

"But many of us use bench-top etching systems to fab our own

boards.  I used to do this with PTH boards.  Once I moved to surface

mount, I couldn't achieve the tolerances required so I've had to use a

real board fab house."

real board fab house?????

Is this what Eagle is initially set up for, amateurs and hobbyists etching their own boards.

Don't be insulted, hear me out.

Perhaps when Eagle initializes, it might try setting itself for default rules according to how the user is going to have his boards made.

Perhaps even a warning that the default rules don't reflect current manufacturing capabilities

I appreciate your response, you told me how to change things.   You can do nothing more, please don't try.

Sincerely

Brian

On 03/17/2014 12:09 PM, Brian Mcclung wrote:

Hi Chuck

 

I appreciate your response, but

 

Nothing is going to make feel better about the way Eagle is defaulted.

...

I appreciate your response, you told me how to change things.   You can

do nothing more, please don't try.

I won't.  It seems you've pretty much burned all your bridges here.

I really don't understand your response.

I've not ignored, nor have I tried to be unappreciative of any advice or directions directly relevant to a problem I was trying to solve.

But if you want to get into a debate about underlying philosophy and default settings, I'll take this as far you want.

I'll call technical support from now on, open till 7pm est.

I wont have to put up with their attitude, and they get paid to put up with mine.

What do you think you offer that they can't?

And who do you think you are to me.   I have helped plenty of people in my time I wouldn't spend 2 minutes with if I didn't have to.   You think you're any different?

Come a long way since then!

Come a long way since then!