Out of the Box Gripes

On 01/19/10 15:45, Klaus Schmidinger wrote:

On 01/19/10 14:38, James Morrison wrote:

Klaus Schmidinger wrote on Tue, 19 January 2010 04:45

On 01/18/10 23:29, James Morrison wrote:

I'll add to my list:

New board files have the DRC setup as (1*16) but there are 16

layers

displayed in the layers.  That is not correct and confusing.  If

you put

anything on those layers you get a DRC error (rightly).  And to get

rid of

them you have to change the layer configuration to something else

(1*2+16)

for instance and then back to (1*16) to get the layers displayed to

only

show top and bottom.

And during routing you get the whole list of layers to switch

between when

the DRC setup says there are only two layers and it should just

toggle.

This bug must be overwhelming to new users who aren't quite sure

how things

should work and what to do about it.   And it's a nuisance to

experienced

users to boot.

I can't reproduce this here.

When I create a new board, the DISPLAY, LAYER, ROUTE and WIRE command

all

show only layers 1 and 16.

 

Let me be a bit more specific.  If I go from Control Panel and create a

board with File->New->Board then the layers are as I expect.  But I rarely

use this path in reality.

 

First create a new schematic from Control Panel with

File-New->Schematic. Then I type in "board" and answer "Yes" to the

dialog to create a new

board.  Now there are 16 electrical layers shown in layers dialog even

though the DRC->Layers setup is (1*16).

 

Ah, now I see.

Will be fixed.

Fixed for version 5.7.1.

Klaus Schmidinger

--

_______________________________________________________________

Klaus Schmidinger                       Phone: +49-8635-6989-10

CadSoft Computer GmbH                   Fax:   +49-8635-6989-40

Pleidolfweg 15                          Email:   kls@cadsoft.de

D-84568 Pleiskirchen, Germany           URL:     www.cadsoft.de

_______________________________________________________________

Klaus Schmidinger wrote on Tue, 19 January 2010 09:45

First create a new schematic from Control Panel with

File-New->Schematic. Then I type in "board" and answer "Yes" to

the

dialog to create a new

board.  Now there are 16 electrical layers shown in layers dialog

even

though the DRC->Layers setup is (1*16).

 

Ah, now I see.

Will be fixed.

Great.  Thanks Klaus.

James

--

James Morrison  ~~~  Stratford Digital

email:  james@eaglecentral.ca

web: http://www.eaglecentral.ca

Specialising in CadSoft EAGLE

• Online Sales to North America

• Electronic Design Services

• EAGLE Enterprise Toolkit

--

Browser access to CadSoft Support Forums at http://www.eaglecentral.ca

On 01/19/10 14:38, James Morrison wrote:

Klaus Schmidinger wrote on Tue, 19 January 2010 04:45

On 01/18/10 23:29, James Morrison wrote:

I'll add to my list:

New board files have the DRC setup as (1*16) but there are 16

layers

displayed in the layers.  That is not correct and confusing.  If

you put

anything on those layers you get a DRC error (rightly).  And to get

rid of

them you have to change the layer configuration to something else

(1*2+16)

for instance and then back to (1*16) to get the layers displayed to

only

show top and bottom.

And during routing you get the whole list of layers to switch

between when

the DRC setup says there are only two layers and it should just

toggle.

This bug must be overwhelming to new users who aren't quite sure

how things

should work and what to do about it.   And it's a nuisance to

experienced

users to boot.

 

I can't reproduce this here.

When I create a new board, the DISPLAY, LAYER, ROUTE and WIRE command

all

show only layers 1 and 16.

 

Let me be a bit more specific.  If I go from Control Panel and create a

board with File->New->Board then the layers are as I expect.  But I rarely

use this path in reality.

 

First create a new schematic from Control Panel with

File-New->Schematic. Then I type in "board" and answer "Yes" to the

dialog to create a new

board.  Now there are 16 electrical layers shown in layers dialog even

though the DRC->Layers setup is (1*16).

Ah, now I see.

Will be fixed.

Klaus Schmidinger

--

_______________________________________________________________

Klaus Schmidinger                       Phone: +49-8635-6989-10

CadSoft Computer GmbH                   Fax:   +49-8635-6989-40

Pleidolfweg 15                          Email:   kls@cadsoft.de

D-84568 Pleiskirchen, Germany           URL:     www.cadsoft.de

_______________________________________________________________

Klaus Schmidinger wrote on Tue, 19 January 2010 04:45

On 01/18/10 23:29, James Morrison wrote:

I'll add to my list:

 

New board files have the DRC setup as (1*16) but there are 16

layers

displayed in the layers.  That is not correct and confusing.  If

you put

anything on those layers you get a DRC error (rightly).  And to get

rid of

them you have to change the layer configuration to something else

(1*2+16)

for instance and then back to (1*16) to get the layers displayed to

only

show top and bottom.

 

And during routing you get the whole list of layers to switch

between when

the DRC setup says there are only two layers and it should just

toggle.

 

This bug must be overwhelming to new users who aren't quite sure

how things

should work and what to do about it.   And it's a nuisance to

experienced

users to boot.

 

I can't reproduce this here.

When I create a new board, the DISPLAY, LAYER, ROUTE and WIRE command

all

show only layers 1 and 16.

Let me be a bit more specific.  If I go from Control Panel and create a

board with File->New->Board then the layers are as I expect.  But I rarely

use this path in reality.

First create a new schematic from Control Panel with File-New->Schematic.

Then I type in "board" and answer "Yes" to the dialog to create a new

board.  Now there are 16 electrical layers shown in layers dialog even

though the DRC->Layers setup is (1*16).

Quote:

Is there something in your eagle.scr file that might display all

layers, like "SET USED_LAYERS ALL"?

There is no instance of "LAYERS" at all in eagle.scr.

Cheers,

James.

--

James Morrison  ~~~  Stratford Digital

email:  james@eaglecentral.ca

web: http://www.eaglecentral.ca

Specialising in CadSoft EAGLE

• Online Sales to North America

• Electronic Design Services

• EAGLE Enterprise Toolkit

--

Browser access to CadSoft Support Forums at http://www.eaglecentral.ca

On 01/18/10 23:29, James Morrison wrote:

I'll add to my list:

 

New board files have the DRC setup as (1*16) but there are 16 layers

displayed in the layers.  That is not correct and confusing.  If you put

anything on those layers you get a DRC error (rightly).  And to get rid of

them you have to change the layer configuration to something else (1*2+16)

for instance and then back to (1*16) to get the layers displayed to only

show top and bottom.

 

And during routing you get the whole list of layers to switch between when

the DRC setup says there are only two layers and it should just toggle.

 

This bug must be overwhelming to new users who aren't quite sure how things

should work and what to do about it.   And it's a nuisance to experienced

users to boot.

I can't reproduce this here.

When I create a new board, the DISPLAY, LAYER, ROUTE and WIRE command all

show only layers 1 and 16.

Is there something in your eagle.scr file that might display all

layers, like "SET USED_LAYERS ALL"?

Klaus Schmidinger

--

_______________________________________________________________

Klaus Schmidinger                       Phone: +49-8635-6989-10

CadSoft Computer GmbH                   Fax:   +49-8635-6989-40

Pleidolfweg 15                          Email:   kls@cadsoft.de

D-84568 Pleiskirchen, Germany           URL:     www.cadsoft.de

_______________________________________________________________

James Morrison wrote on Sun, 03 January 2010 03:45

I think you're onto something.  Whenever I have to use a CAD tool I'm

not familiar with the first thing I do is google for a cheat sheet for

it.  That would be of great advantage to new users.  Once you get over

that first hurdle and see how EAGLE handles its commands it gets a lot

easier.  A one-sheet 8.5x11 (or A4) page could include everything you

need to know to get started.

Anyone know of a good cheat sheet? I tried to google for it, but I couldn't

find any. I did find this thread though...

Stig

--

Browser access to CadSoft Support Forums at http://www.eaglecentral.ca

I'll add to my list:

New board files have the DRC setup as (1*16) but there are 16 layers

displayed in the layers.  That is not correct and confusing.  If you put

anything on those layers you get a DRC error (rightly).  And to get rid of

them you have to change the layer configuration to something else (1*2+16)

for instance and then back to (1*16) to get the layers displayed to only

show top and bottom.

And during routing you get the whole list of layers to switch between when

the DRC setup says there are only two layers and it should just toggle.

This bug must be overwhelming to new users who aren't quite sure how things

should work and what to do about it.   And it's a nuisance to experienced

users to boot.

James.

--

James Morrison  ~~~  Stratford Digital

email:  james@eaglecentral.ca

web: http://www.eaglecentral.ca

Specialising in CadSoft EAGLE

• Online Sales to North America

• Electronic Design Services

• EAGLE Enterprise Toolkit

--

Browser access to CadSoft Support Forums at http://www.eaglecentral.ca

"James Morrison" <james@eaglecentral.ca> wrote in message

news:him006$1d9$1@cheetah.cadsoft.de...

Terri Miller wrote on Fri, 08 January 2010 12:13

"James Morrison" <james@eaglecentral.ca[/email]> wrote in message

news:hhj6ri$urt$1@cheetah.cadsoft.de...[/email]

 

<snip>

*CAM jobs mirroring bottom side layers by default.

 

<snip>

 

This was fixed in 5.7!  Thanks to CadSoft for listening.

 

James.

--

James Morrison  ~~~  Stratford Digital

 

email:  james@eaglecentral.ca

web: http://www.eaglecentral.ca

 

Specialising in CadSoft EAGLE

• Online Sales to North America

• Electronic Design Services

• EAGLE Enterprise Toolkit

--

Browser access to CadSoft Support Forums at http://www.eaglecentral.ca

Yes... thank you CadSoft!

Terri

Terri Miller wrote on Fri, 08 January 2010 12:13

"James Morrison" <james@eaglecentral.ca[/email]> wrote in message

news:hhj6ri$urt$1@cheetah.cadsoft.de...[/email]

 

<snip>

*CAM jobs mirroring bottom side layers by default.

 

<snip>

This was fixed in 5.7!  Thanks to CadSoft for listening.

James.

--

James Morrison  ~~~  Stratford Digital

email:  james@eaglecentral.ca

web: http://www.eaglecentral.ca

Specialising in CadSoft EAGLE

• Online Sales to North America

• Electronic Design Services

• EAGLE Enterprise Toolkit

--

Browser access to CadSoft Support Forums at http://www.eaglecentral.ca

"James Morrison" <james@eaglecentral.ca> wrote in message

news:hhj6ri$urt$1@cheetah.cadsoft.de...

Hello everyone,

 

EAGLE is quite powerful and flexible.  But with great flexibility comes

great irritation if you don't know how to do it (or even that you can).

And new users may either get discouraged and leave the community, work

inefficiently for years and not realise it, or even worse, not realise an

easy to fix issue and get back boards that don't work (thinking of cam job

mirroring of bottom layer).

 

So what is on your list of things that EAGLE could configure better out of

the box.  I'm not talking about any new functionality.  I'm thinking about

things that EAGLE will do, but is just not configured out of the box.  Or

things that everyone does the first time they install EAGLE.

 

Here's a start, please add to it.  This is meant to make EAGLE even

better,

not just annoy people, so try to be constructive   Hopefully the new

people at Newark will take this list seriously as it greatly effects that

first impression new users get.  A bad one and they might never come back.

 

1)  bill of materials and x-y data generation integrated, documented, and

supported.

 

2)  advanced find integrated, documented, and supported

 

3)  better use of colour pallette and default values other than indices

16-63 being gray (or grey if you like)

 

4)  default CAM jobs mirror bottom layer, shouldn't be done normally

 

5)  key assignments for all normal activities, documented and supported.

Of course, users can make their own changes by editing eagle.scr etc, but

again most users don't really know that is possible.  And a template

document that you can edit to give new employees the cheat sheet.

 

That's a start, I'm sure there are a ton more.

 

Cheers,

 

James.

--

James Morrison  ~~~  Stratford Digital

 

email:  james@eaglecentral.ca

web: http://www.eaglecentral.ca

 

Specialising in CadSoft EAGLE

• Online Sales to North America

• Electronic Design Services

• EAGLE Enterprise Toolkit

--

Browser access to CadSoft Support Forums at http://www.eaglecentral.ca

Hello James,

I am listing some of the sames 'gripes' as have been listed already, but

just wanted to give some input about what I experience with customers.

*Vector font output - confusion about being about to design with

proportional or fixed font, but only outputs vector.

*CAM jobs mirroring bottom side layers by default.

*Stacked pad issue - When the name of the layer contains the $ character,

pads and vias need to be deselected during output.  If not, it creates a pad

and clearance in the same spot.

As far as documentation, it may not be a bad idea to have a list of errors

(with screenshots) and some explanation on how to resolve the issue.  For

example, 'Invalid Polygon' error for files created in older versions of

EAGLE; 5.0 now recognizes the invalid polygons, while older versions do not.

And another off the top of my head, 'Polygon may cause extremely large plot

data'... when the polygon width is too small.  There are more, but these

come to mind right now.

I know that the answers can be found in the documentation and/or help menu,

but having the list would save tons of time on searching and hoping that the

search terms that you are using are correct.

That's all I have for now!

Best regards,

Terri