Eagle v8 licensing...

On 01/18/2017 02:26 PM, Matt Berggren wrote:

Hi All --

 

Moving this to a separate thread so it doesn't get lost in the ether.  Here's my two cents on licensing and I'd love your feedback:

 

Firstly, the Autodesk licensing model is subscription and the EAGLE paid license will require that you install the SW and then generate an account to retrieve your license entitlement.  Once you have this, you are good to go and the SW will run as expected.  If you lose your network connection, the SW has a 14-day heartbeat that will enable you to work offline for 14 days.  I know that some folks would prefer to never have to connect, but this is required to support a monthly subscription model that can be selectively enabled and disabled when you use the SW (so you only pay when you use it).  The total cost of ownership for those folks using it less than a few weeks a year will thus be substantially lower and still enables you to access the full software for less money.  <Insert revolt here> 

I can see that you're pretty much laughing off our concerns.

The only example you could present where this subscription based license

will save the customer money is for a part time Eagle user.  Look at it

this way...  In the last 4-1/2 years, I spent about $1000 to upgrade a

3-user Professional license from v5 to v6, and to v7.

Based on the current pricing of $500 per user per year, the equivalent

3-user Ultimate license will now cost $6,750 for 4-1/2 years.

Matt, help me to understand how the total cost of ownership is now lower

than what it was?

WRT to "what happens if autodesk decides to one day just shut off the license server?" ...ok, sure, that's possible, but so is a reality TV star becoming President of the..cough...nevermind, bad example. 

 

Point it, that's a pretty remote possibility (think: time travel and alien invasions) and it wouldn't benefit us at all to upset the users we just spent real money hoping to bring into autodesk and earn their business.

Again, I fail to see the humor.  It's not so much about shutting down a

license server - it's more about the ability to access it.  Several

customers, including myself, have already expressed concerns about

this.  A scenario that is far more likely to occur would be one that is

out of Autodesk's control - something like a virus that renders getting

packets to and from Autodesk impossible.

  As the guy with both development and P&L for the product, I can tell you that it's counterintuitive and wouldn't benefit us at all.  We know this.  We make SW used by governments, movie studios, game developers, MEs, Civil Engineers, machinists, etc. and you can bet that shutting down a license server is not to our benefit in any of these categories.

Yes, and you now make software that can not be used in a secure or

remote environment.  Yeah... I also read about Global Travel Rights.

Now...a question was raised about "but what if I drop my subscription and I want my data".  Awesome, the data is yours and lives on your machine.  And for SW that stores data in the cloud (we have some of these) we always provide a path to your data.  If this again fails with one product, it puts all of the others up for discussion.  Again, not helpful.  (Read:  strategy = doomed).

Is it safe to assume that when you say that the license server and data

in the cloud will always be available, it means that your servers are

fully secured and unhackable and will never go down.  We're more likely

to face an alien invasion than to have such servers.

"So what about needing an entitlement for the freeware to open the data I created in another version (a paid version) and reading it?  What if I want access and I dont want the 14-day time out?"

 

So here's the deal...We can do better here.  So we will.  Here's my commitment to the group here for freeware that ensures you always have a license that you can fall back on without need of internet connection except when you first install it (which after all, you would have had to get it in the first place):  *in version 8.1 or 8.0.1 or whathaveyou (let's call it 'a future release'), if you install the SW and authenticate once, we'll remove the timer req. * So what I'm saying another way is, the freeware will require you to login the first time to get your license, but if you log out beyond that, you're good.  You got your entitlement and you can use it freely without connection. 

If you can remove the timer requirement for the freeware, then you can

also set the timer to a period longer than 14 days, per Rachel's suggestion.

Hope this is clear.  Let us know if you have questions!

I sincerely hope that Autodesk will lend a serious ear to and address

the concerns expressed about subscription based licensing.

However, I truly believe that this is a lost cause considering that

Autodesk's business model is subscription based.

Thanks for your help,

    - Chuck

I can see all those new licensing modes for new product. But it's not this case.

The new Eagle is forked from the old Eagle.

The old Eagle had licensed users.

The new Eagle wants old Eagle's user pool to pay "again"?

Or am I misunderstanding the whole thing?

I can see all those new licensing modes for new product. But it's not this case.

The new Eagle is forked from the old Eagle.

The old Eagle had licensed users.

The new Eagle wants old Eagle's user pool to pay "again"?

Or am I misunderstanding the whole thing?

On 19.01.2017 16:32, Dan Teodorescu wrote:

The new Eagle wants that old Eagle's user pool to pay "again"?

No they want a constant cash flow. "Pay" would imply you own the

software afterwards, they want to rent it to you.

No they want a constant cash flow. "Pay" would imply you own the

software afterwards, they want to rent it to you.

The major difference being that if you dont like what we release in a subsequent point-release (8.1, 8.2, 8.3...) you have not paid for everything up front, hoping one day they add better routing or better hierarchy, or better connectivity tools or design rules, etc. and then beeb disappointed that you "bet" it would come in version x.y only to find that it didnt.

Matt Berggren schrieb:

No they want a constant cash flow. "Pay" would imply you own the

software afterwards, they want to rent it to you.

 

The major difference being that if you dont like what we release in a

subsequent point-release (8.1, 8.2, 8.3...) you have not paid for

everything up front, hoping one day they add better routing or better

hierarchy, or better connectivity tools or design rules, etc. and

then beeb disappointed that you "bet" it would come in version x.y

only to find that it didnt.

Now you are completely inverting the facts.

With a paid license, you get exactly what you pay for. You might even

check out the freeware before to see if any new functions or changes

justify the expenses. If you want to further use the old version

(without additional cost, BTW), you simply don't update.

With a subscription, you continuously pay even without any update (if

it's really possible to avoid updates without losing the activation).

Then you are disappointed!

Tilmann

On 19.01.2017 16:56, Matt Berggren wrote:

The major difference being that if you dont like what we release in a subsequent point-release (8.1, 8.2, 8.3...) you have not paid for everything up front, hoping one day they add better routing or better hierarchy, or better connectivity tools or design rules, etc. and then beeb disappointed that you "bet" it would come in version x.y only to find that it didnt.

In the previous model you at least had the option on staying

disappointed because if you decide to not put in any more money in the

slot machine, you still had a full functional version which you could

reinstall whenever needed without any hazzle.

Markus