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EAGLE User Chat (English) Eagle v8 licensing...
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  • eagle
  • license
  • freeware
  • 8.0
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Eagle v8 licensing...

technolomaniac
technolomaniac over 8 years ago

Hi All --

 

Moving this to a separate thread so it doesn't get lost in the ether.  Here's my two cents on licensing and I'd love your feedback:

 

Firstly, the Autodesk licensing model is subscription and the EAGLE paid license will require that you install the SW and then generate an account to retrieve your license entitlement.  Once you have this, you are good to go and the SW will run as expected.  If you lose your network connection, the SW has a 14-day heartbeat that will enable you to work offline for 14 days.  I know that some folks would prefer to never have to connect, but this is required to support a monthly subscription model that can be selectively enabled and disabled when you use the SW (so you only pay when you use it).  The total cost of ownership for those folks using it less than a few weeks a year will thus be substantially lower and still enables you to access the full software for less money.  <Insert revolt here>  image

 

WRT to "what happens if autodesk decides to one day just shut off the license server?" ...ok, sure, that's possible, but so is a reality TV star becoming President of the..cough...nevermind, bad example.

 

Point is, that's a pretty remote possibility (think: time travel and alien invasions) and it wouldn't benefit us *at all* to upset the users we just spent real money hoping to bring into autodesk and earn their business.  As the guy with both development and P&L for the product, I can tell you that it's counterintuitive and wouldn't benefit us at all.  We know this.  We make SW used by governments, movie studios, game developers, MEs, Civil Engineers, machinists, etc. and you can bet that shutting down a license server is not to our benefit in any of these categories.  To demonstrate this behavior in one category, without a path for user SW and data, calls into question ALL of our tools' viability under this model.  Not helpful.

 

Now...a question was raised about "but what if I drop my subscription and I want my data".  Awesome, the data is yours and lives on your machine.  And for SW that stores data in the cloud (we have some of these) we always provide a path to your data.  If this again fails with one product, it puts all of the others up for discussion.  Again, not helpful.  (Read:  strategy = doomed).

 

"So what about needing an entitlement for the freeware to open the data I created in another version (a *paid* version) and reading it?  What if I want access and I dont want the 14-day time out?"

 

So here's the deal...We can do better here.  So we will.  Here's my commitment to the group here for freeware that ensures you always have a license that you can fall back on without need of internet connection *except when you first install it* (which after all, you would have had to get it in the first place):  in version 8.1 or 8.0.1 or whathaveyou (let's call it 'a future release'), if you install the SW and authenticate once, we'll remove the timer req.  So what I'm saying another way is, the freeware will require you to login the first time to get your license, but if you log out beyond that, you're good.  You got your entitlement and you can use it freely without connection.

 

Caveat:  to install an update, you will need to login.  The update server (which issues the new version...e.g. 8.1 or 8.2. or 8.0.1, etc.) requires that you login and get the update, but beyond that, logout.  Thus if you want to go off-grid in a mountain cabin somewhere, get your license at Starbucks (blagh! I understand they have 'free' wifi, but no frappucinos!  ...that stuff is bad for you) then get your license and go on your merry way up to the snow drenched peaks.  When you hear from the other mountaineers or your local yodeler that a new version of EAGLE is available...download, login, get your license, get your 'decaf double-pump vanilla non-fat latte macchiato' and head back up the slopes.

 

Point being, we can do the freeware better.  So we will.

 

Hope this is clear.  Let us know if you have questions!

 

Best regards,

 

Matt Berggren

Director - Autodesk

@technolomaniac

hackaday.io/matt

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Top Replies

  • COMPACT
    COMPACT over 8 years ago in reply to autodeskguest +4
    Not to worry, it's back to the Drawing board for me.
  • shabaz
    shabaz over 8 years ago +3
    Hi Matt, When will the EAGLE Maker version (or another solution for hobbiests) be v8-ready? I see the subscription for 'EAGLE Standard' and 'EAGLE Premium' are now available on the website, but not EAGLE…
  • albertovignati
    albertovignati over 8 years ago in reply to techsupport +3
    Il 21/02/2017 22:54, Ed Robledo ha scritto: The customers are the sole driving force to the improvements to EAGLE. Some of these 'wants' take time to be done right, that's the reason they were not done…
Parents
  • autodeskguest
    autodeskguest over 8 years ago

    On Wed, 18 Jan 2017 19:26:46 GMT, Matt Berggren

    <noreply-480270@element14.com> wrote:

    Firstly, the Autodesk licensing model is subscription and the EAGLE paid license will require that you install the SW and then generate an account to retrieve your license entitlement.  Once you have this, you are good to go and the SW will run as expected.  If you lose your network connection, the SW has a 14-day heartbeat that will enable you to work offline for 14 days.  I know that some folks would prefer to never have to connect, but this is required to support a monthly subscription model that can be selectively enabled and disabled when you use the SW (so you only pay when you use it).  The total cost of ownership for those folks using it less than a few weeks a year will thus be substantially lower and still enables you to access the full software for less money.  <Insert revolt here>  image

     

     

     

    So Eagle is going to the subscription model. Didn't you learn anything

    from the previous licensing fiasco?

     

    You can count me and my company out. I will not rent any software,

    especially not business critical software like this.

     

    Does anyone happen know a good KiCad tutorial aimed for Eagle users?

     

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  • autodeskguest
    autodeskguest over 8 years ago in reply to autodeskguest

     

    So Eagle is going to the subscription model. Didn't you learn anything

    from the previous licensing fiasco?

     

    You can count me and my company out. I will not rent any software,

    especially not business critical software like this.

     

    Does anyone happen know a good KiCad tutorial aimed for Eagle users?

     

    Hi Jussi,

     

    I find it interesting the mention of KiCAD and business critical in the

    same post.

     

    With an open source tool like KiCAD you are accepting the software as

    is, there is no promise of prompt support or any professional assistance

    should you run into problems. You also have no expectation of feature

    implementations or a constant development cycle. I'm not knocking it's

    capabilities, simply the fact that using it entails risk just like any

    other program.

     

    If I had a business, I don't think I would be comfortable with that. I

    would want to know that if I have a question or problem there is someone

    I can reach out to and get a quick response.

     

    I would encourage everyone who sees subscription and says "I'm out" to

    give it a try and then form an opinion, right now most of these posts

    just seem to be reactionary.

     

    Hope this helps,

    Jorge Garcia

     

     

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  • autodeskguest
    autodeskguest over 8 years ago in reply to autodeskguest

    Am 19.01.2017 um 18:06 schrieb Jorge Garcia:

    With an open source tool like KiCAD you are accepting the software as

    is, there is no promise of prompt support or any professional assistance

    should you run into problems. You also have no expectation of feature

    implementations or a constant development cycle. I'm not knocking it's

    capabilities, simply the fact that using it entails risk just like any

    other program.

     

    If I had a business, I don't think I would be comfortable with that. I

     

    What software serves autodesk.com? Isn't that open source software a bit

    risky? If I had a business, I don't think I would be comfortable with that.

     

     

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  • autodeskguest
    autodeskguest over 8 years ago in reply to autodeskguest

    So you dislike open source like Qt5 which is the frameworks upon which Eagle is built? Qt commercial gets you support

    and the license to develop closed source applications, but Qt5 is still open source. There a many open source

    applications that provide support.

     

    Eric

     

     

    On 01/19/2017 12:06 PM, Jorge Garcia wrote:

     

    With an open source tool like KiCAD you are accepting the software as is, there is no promise of prompt support or any

    professional assistance should you run into problems.

     

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  • Justynb
    Justynb over 8 years ago in reply to autodeskguest

    Jorge Garcia wrote on Thu, 19 January 2017 12:06

    With an open source tool like KiCAD you are accepting the software as

    is, there is no promise of prompt support or any professional

    assistance

    should you run intoproblems. You also have no expectation of feature

    implementations or a constant development cycle. I'm not knocking it's

     

    capabilities, simply the fact that using it entails risk just like any

     

    other program.

     

    If I had a business, I don't think I would be comfortable with that. I

     

    would want to know that if I have a question or problem there is

    someone

    I can reach out to and get a quick response.

     

     

    Like many others I use plenty of open source software in business-critical

    situations and I find it very reliable. Sometimes communities can respond

    just as quickly as company support. But as you say, there are often

    tradeoffs.

     

    If people want an absolute guarantee that a company will not take a product

    in a direction they don't like, open source is the only option. But they

    may have to fund development of features or fixes themselves. KiCad (and

    gEDA) will be a good fit for many people.

     

    Anyway, this really feels like it is getting off topic.

     

    Jorge Garcia wrote on Thu, 19 January 2017 12:06

    I would encourage everyone who sees subscription and says "I'm out" to

     

    give it a try and then form an opinion, right now most of these posts

    just seem to be reactionary.

     

     

    I'd like to be quite clear here that I personally don't have a problem with

    the subscription model itself. I'm happy to pay monthly, or a lump sum, or

    whatever. I don't care, this is critical software for my business.

     

    I understand that others disagree.

     

    My main concern (and I'm sure I'm not alone) is of not being able to use

    the software in the event of lack of connection to the license servers if I

    am not successfully signed in.

     

    This does include in the long term (you don't know the license servers will

    still be running in 15 years).

     

    But more obviously it also includes the short term:

     

    • The servers might go down, there might be a big DDoS attach, whatever

    • I might not have access to the internet, might be at a factory, on a

    glacier, my ISP might be suffering an outage

     

    "Wait!" you say, "Just make sure you've used Eagle online beforehand, and

    everything is fine!"

     

    But that is not always the way things work. It might be unplanned. A system

    update on your computer might cause the license check to crap out, or you

    might have to reinstall Eagle, whatever. And of course this doesn't cover

    the problem of using the file in the future when Autodesk isn't running the

    servers (or not supporting them for your platform).

     

    It could be very serious not to be able to use Eagle properly in these

    situations. But there we go, perhaps we have to accept it. I'm genuinely

    trying to find middle ground here. I would at least like to know that I

    will be able to open the files, inspect, create manufacturing data etc.

     

    So to Matt and Jorge, please could you tell me that an Eagle fallback mode

    will allow limited functionality (ie read-only) even if it has never

    registered with an Autodesk server. Eagle has always been able to open all

    compatible files in read-only mode without any license file at all.

     

    If you would please just preserve this true offline fallback to read-only,

    I will reluctantly stomach the rest of it and subscribe to Premium right

    away.

     

    Please consider this.

     

    Thanks.

     

    ps sorry for all the bold. And sorry to the many others for whom even this

    compromise would be unacceptable.

    --

    http://www.eaglecentral.ca :: The original and best browser access to CadSoft EAGLE support forums.  Supported by EAGLE licenses purchased through us :: http://www.eaglelicenses.com

     

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  • autodeskguest
    autodeskguest over 8 years ago in reply to autodeskguest

    On Thu, 19 Jan 2017 12:06:25 -0500, Jorge Garcia

    <jorge@cadsoftusa.com> wrote:

     

    So Eagle is going to the subscription model. Didn't you learn anything

    from the previous licensing fiasco?

     

    You can count me and my company out. I will not rent any software,

    especially not business critical software like this.

     

    Does anyone happen know a good KiCad tutorial aimed for Eagle users?

     

    Hi Jussi,

     

    I find it interesting the mention of KiCAD and business critical in the

    same post.

     

     

    Well, electronics CAD is pretty business critical for me and my

    company and as far as I know only options with Linux and preferably

    Windows support are Eagle and KiCad.

     

    With an open source tool like KiCAD you are accepting the software as

    is, there is no promise of prompt support or any professional assistance

    should you run into problems. You also have no expectation of feature

     

    This is certainly true. As I see it this does not really differ from

    what the Eagle offers: there is no guarantee that the prompt support

    or professional assistance actually helps...

     

    implementations or a constant development cycle. I'm not knocking it's

    capabilities, simply the fact that using it entails risk just like any

    other program.

     

     

    Open Source development is usually considerable more transparent than

    that of proprietary software.

     

    If there is a feature missing in an open source software I can always

    implement such features myself or pay someone to do the work in my

    behalf. I have no such recourse with proprietary software.

     

    If I had a business, I don't think I would be comfortable with that. I

    would want to know that if I have a question or problem there is someone

    I can reach out to and get a quick response.

     

    What little contact I have had with Cadsoft support I can say that the

    email support has not that useful. So I don't think I am any worse off

    with having to relay on community support.

     

     

    I would encourage everyone who sees subscription and says "I'm out" to

    give it a try and then form an opinion, right now most of these posts

    just seem to be reactionary.

     

    I fully admit that I have an extreme visceral reaction to rented

    software, and I don't think that any arguments to the contrary

    (rational or not) are going to change that ;(

     

     

    Best Regards

    Jussi

     

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  • autodeskguest
    autodeskguest over 8 years ago in reply to autodeskguest

    On 1/19/2017 12:47 PM, Eric Stevens wrote:

    So you dislike open source like Qt5 which is the frameworks upon which

    Eagle is built? Qt commercial gets you support and the license to

    develop closed source applications, but Qt5 is still open source. There

    a many open source applications that provide support.

     

    Hi Eric,

     

    Let me make it very clear, I love open source. I work on a Linux Mint

    box on a daily basis and I work with open source tools all the time.

     

    My point was that like everything, open source has its weaknesses and

    trade offs anyone who says otherwise is not being reasonable. Large open

    source projects have very active communities, producing high quality

    software. Linux, Qt, and Internet infrastructure are all very large open

    source projects.

     

    The same can not be said of smaller open source projects with more

    modest resources. My discussion was about KiCAD, please don't try to

    misconstrue my comments as an attack on all of open source.

     

    Best Regards,

    Jorge Garcia

     

     

     

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  • autodeskguest
    autodeskguest over 8 years ago in reply to autodeskguest

    On 19.01.2017 18:06, Jorge Garcia wrote:

    > With an open source tool like KiCAD you are accepting the software as

    > is, there is no promise of prompt support or any professional assistance

    > should you run into problems. You also have no expectation of feature

     

    Where's the problem? Our department has been relying on open-source

    tools for a very long time now.

    With an open-source tool, I can fix bugs myself and support is done via

    newsgroups or mailing lists.

    Of course, there are tools where a build environment is difficult to

    set up, but from what I've seen, KiCad should be reasonably easy. It's

    even built with my prefered UI toolkit.

     

    For mission-critical and long-running tasks, I always prefer open

    source over proprietary stuff.

     

     

    Actually, Eagle is competing more with KiCad than e.g. with Altium.

    The licensing does not match this any more. The prices increased quite

    a lot in the past when there was no competition in the lower cost

    region.

    Now, that there is competition, the prices increased even more.

    That's quite against the mechanisms of a market.

     

    In the past, Cadsoft missed to deliver updates with the features and

    UI improvements that people wanted and so people did not upgrade.

    Obviously, that's a difficult business model.

    Now Autodesk wants to people to rent the software based on the promise

    that everything will be better? I would suggest to go back to the

    old license model again for two or three releases to demonstrate that

    things really get better.

     

     

    Of course the new license model has a big advantage:

    Whenever someone upgrades to the new model, someone else can buy

    a cheap "used" license.

     

     

    Regards,

     

    Dietmar

     

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  • autodeskguest
    autodeskguest over 8 years ago in reply to autodeskguest

    Jorge,

     

    No problem, I understand that there are a lot (most) of open source projects where dedicated support is non-existent,

    but it was the way it was phrased. "With an open source tool like ..." came off a bit volatile to me. If you had said

    "With a tool like ..." it would have been less likely to ruffle my feathers, at least.

     

    I also have to work with some CAD software, not from Autodesk btw, that we pay insane amounts of money for support and

    I'd be better off asking my dog for solutions. So there's that.

     

    Stay cool,

    Eric

     

     

     

    Hi Eric,

     

    Let me make it very clear, I love open source. I work on a Linux Mint box on a daily basis and I work with open source

    tools all the time.

     

    My point was that like everything, open source has its weaknesses and trade offs anyone who says otherwise is not being

    reasonable. Large open source projects have very active communities, producing high quality software. Linux, Qt, and

    Internet infrastructure are all very large open source projects.

     

    The same can not be said of smaller open source projects with more modest resources. My discussion was about KiCAD,

    please don't try to misconstrue my comments as an attack on all of open source.

     

    Best Regards,

    Jorge Garcia

     

     

     

     

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  • e14candies
    e14candies over 8 years ago in reply to autodeskguest

    This was non-functional yesterday & is still non-functional today....

     

    Autodesk Knowledge Network

     

    Due to system issues, our Chat option for Contacting Support may not be

    available. We apologize for the inconvenience and are currently working to

    resolve the issue as quickly as possible. Please use an alternative  method

    to contact support until this issue is resolved.

     

     

    https://knowledge.autodesk.com/customer-service/download-install

    --

    http://www.eaglecentral.ca :: The original and best browser access to CadSoft EAGLE support forums.  Supported by EAGLE licenses purchased through us :: http://www.eaglelicenses.com

     

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  • autodeskguest
    autodeskguest over 8 years ago in reply to e14candies

    On 1/19/2017 1:40 PM, Hoyt wrote:

    This was non-functional yesterday & is still non-functional today....

     

    Autodesk Knowledge Network

     

    Due to system issues, our Chat option for Contacting Support may not be

    available. We apologize for the inconvenience and are currently working to

    resolve the issue as quickly as possible. Please use an alternative  method

    to contact support until this issue is resolved.

     

     

    https://knowledge.autodesk.com/customer-service/download-install

     

     

    Hi Hoyt,

     

    This is where things can sometimes be challenging, there are 20 ways to

    reach support through Autodesk.The AKN is not the best one is you want

    to reach us.

     

    The official recommended approach is to login to your Autodesk account

    and on the top right there's a support button click it and go to view my

    cases and create a case there. That's probably the best way for now

    although other options will be coming soon.

     

    If you have our old phone number that still works so you can reach us

    directly.

     

    Best Regards,

    Jorge Garcia

     

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  • autodeskguest
    autodeskguest over 8 years ago in reply to autodeskguest

    On 19/01/17 18:32, Eric Stevens wrote:

     

    I also have to work with some CAD software, not from Autodesk btw, that

    we pay insane amounts of money for support and I'd be better off asking

    my dog for solutions. So there's that.

     

    To be honest, EVERY time I've had to use the so-called support provided

    by a commercial software house, I'd have been better off asking the dog.

    In contrast, the open source community are very open and helpful.

     

     

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  • autodeskguest
    autodeskguest over 8 years ago in reply to autodeskguest

    On 19/01/17 18:32, Eric Stevens wrote:

     

    I also have to work with some CAD software, not from Autodesk btw, that

    we pay insane amounts of money for support and I'd be better off asking

    my dog for solutions. So there's that.

     

    To be honest, EVERY time I've had to use the so-called support provided

    by a commercial software house, I'd have been better off asking the dog.

    In contrast, the open source community are very open and helpful.

     

     

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  • autodeskguest
    autodeskguest over 8 years ago in reply to autodeskguest

    To be honest, EVERY time I've had to use the so-called support provided

    by a commercial software house, I'd have been better off asking the dog.

    In contrast, the open source community are very open and helpful.

     

     

    Hi Rob,

     

    Well, how have I been? Honestly, I can take it. I'm still going to be

    active on our forums and worst case you can always call.

     

    It just kinda hurts to be compared to a dog, but I guess that's how it

    rolls.

     

    P.S I'm mostly joking about feeling bad

     

    The support team is still going to be the same if that's any consolation

    and you'll still be able to reach us.

     

    Best Regards,

    Jorge Garcia

     

     

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  • autodeskguest
    autodeskguest over 8 years ago in reply to autodeskguest

    On 19/01/17 19:29, Jorge Garcia wrote:

     

    Well, how have I been? Honestly, I can take it.

     

    Actually I wasn't referring to you because I've never needed support for

    Eagle (I've occasionally asked questions on this forum but got most of

    my answers from fellow users in the same way I would for open-source

    tools). Eric referred to an unnamed piece of software, I merely extended

    that to the general case from my experience of commercial software.

    Cadsoft have, in the past, behaved far more like an open-source team in

    that users' questions and opinions have been listened to and treated

    with respect. We can only hope that will continue.

     

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