Eagle v8 licensing...

Hi Matt, so to be clear with V8 we are obtaining a new copy of the

software based on subscription that has nothing to do with the previous

versions we paid for or where those were installed and used as I don't

see the words upgrade used anywhere.

I am a licensee of Unity3D. They too have gone the subscription route.

They offered existing PRO customers a 50% reduction in their yearly

subscription cost with an option to renew at that same price for a

second year.

Will Autodesk be offering any incentives to keep their existing customers?

Glenn

On 1/18/2017 2:26 PM, Matt Berggren wrote:

Hi All --

 

Moving this to a separate thread so it doesn't get lost in the ether.  Here's my two cents on licensing and I'd love your feedback:

 

Firstly, the Autodesk licensing model is subscription and the EAGLE paid license will require that you install the SW and then generate an account to retrieve your license entitlement.  Once you have this, you are good to go and the SW will run as expected.  If you lose your network connection, the SW has a 14-day heartbeat that will enable you to work offline for 14 days.  I know that some folks would prefer to never have to connect, but this is required to support a monthly subscription model that can be selectively enabled and disabled when you use the SW (so you only pay when you use it).  The total cost of ownership for those folks using it less than a few weeks a year will thus be substantially lower and still enables you to access the full software for less money.  <Insert revolt here> 

 

WRT to "what happens if autodesk decides to one day just shut off the license server?" ...ok, sure, that's possible, but so is a reality TV star becoming President of the..cough...nevermind, bad example.

 

Point it, that's a pretty remote possibility (think: time travel and alien invasions) and it wouldn't benefit us at all to upset the users we just spent real money hoping to bring into autodesk and earn their business.  As the guy with both development and P&L for the product, I can tell you that it's counterintuitive and wouldn't benefit us at all.  We know this.  We make SW used by governments, movie studios, game developers, MEs, Civil Engineers, machinists, etc. and you can bet that shutting down a license server is not to our benefit in any of these categories.  To demonstrate this behavior in one category, without a path for user SW and data, calls into question ALL of our tools' viability under this model.  Not helpful.

 

Now...a question was raised about "but what if I drop my subscription and I want my data".  Awesome, the data is yours and lives on your machine.  And for SW that stores data in the cloud (we have some of these) we always provide a path to your data.  If this again fails with one product, it puts all of the others up for discussion.  Again, not helpful.  (Read:  strategy = doomed).

 

"So what about needing an entitlement for the freeware to open the data I created in another version (a paid version) and reading it?  What if I want access and I dont want the 14-day time out?"

 

So here's the deal...We can do better here.  So we will.  Here's my commitment to the group here for freeware that ensures you always have a license that you can fall back on without need of internet connection except when you first install it (which after all, you would have had to get it in the first place):  *in version 8.1 or 8.0.1 or whathaveyou (let's call it 'a future release'), if you install the SW and authenticate once, we'll remove the timer req. * So what I'm saying another way is, the freeware will require you to login the first time to get your license, but if you log out beyond that, you're good.  You got your entitlement and you can use it freely without connection.

 

Caveat:  to install an update, you will need to login.  The update server (which issues the new version...e.g. 8.1 or 8.2. or 8.0.1, etc.) requires that you login and get the update, but beyond that, logout.  Thus if you want to go off-grid in a mountain cabin somewhere, get your license at Starbucks (blagh! I understand they have 'free' wifi, but no frappucinos!  ...that stuff is bad for you) then get your license and go on your merry way up to the snow drenched peaks.  When you hear from the other mountaineers or your local yodeler that a new version of EAGLE is available...download, login, get your license, get your 'decaf double-pump vanilla non-fat latte macchiato' and head back up the slopes.

 

Point being, we can do the freeware better.  So we will.

 

Hope this is clear.  Let us know if you have questions!

 

Best regards,

 

Matt Berggren

Director - Autodesk

@technolomaniac

hackaday.io/matt

 

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Hi Glen,

At this time the Sales team is offering an aggressive incentive for

existing users.   Please contact lourdes.vasquez@autodesk.com, she will

be able to inform you of the incentive program being made available.

Best Regards,

Ed

edwin.robledo@autodesk.com

Support

On 01/19/2017 02:08 AM, Glenn Jones wrote:

Hi Matt, so to be clear with V8 we are obtaining a new copy of the

software based on subscription that has nothing to do with the previous

versions we paid for or where those were installed and used as I don't

see the words upgrade used anywhere.

 

I am a licensee of Unity3D. They too have gone the subscription route.

They offered existing PRO customers a 50% reduction in their yearly

subscription cost with an option to renew at that same price for a

second year.

 

Will Autodesk be offering any incentives to keep their existing customers?

 

Glenn

 

 

On 1/18/2017 2:26 PM, Matt Berggren wrote:

Hi All --

 

Moving this to a separate thread so it doesn't get lost in the ether.

Here's my two cents on licensing and I'd love your feedback:

 

Firstly, the Autodesk licensing model is subscription and the EAGLE

paid license will require that you install the SW and then generate an

account to retrieve your license entitlement.  Once you have this, you

are good to go and the SW will run as expected.  If you lose your

network connection, the SW has a 14-day heartbeat that will enable you

to work offline for 14 days.  I know that some folks would prefer to

never have to connect, but this is required to support a monthly

subscription model that can be selectively enabled and disabled when

you use the SW (so you only pay when you use it).  The total cost of

ownership for those folks using it less than a few weeks a year will

thus be substantially lower and still enables you to access the full

software for less money.  <Insert revolt here> 

 

WRT to "what happens if autodesk decides to one day just shut off the

license server?" ...ok, sure, that's possible, but so is a reality TV

star becoming President of the..cough...nevermind, bad example.

 

Point it, that's a pretty remote possibility (think: time travel and

alien invasions) and it wouldn't benefit us at all to upset the

users we just spent real money hoping to bring into autodesk and earn

their business.  As the guy with both development and P&L for the

product, I can tell you that it's counterintuitive and wouldn't

benefit us at all.  We know this.  We make SW used by governments,

movie studios, game developers, MEs, Civil Engineers, machinists, etc.

and you can bet that shutting down a license server is not to our

benefit in any of these categories.  To demonstrate this behavior in

one category, without a path for user SW and data, calls into question

ALL of our tools' viability under this model.  Not helpful.

 

Now...a question was raised about "but what if I drop my subscription

and I want my data".  Awesome, the data is yours and lives on your

machine.  And for SW that stores data in the cloud (we have some of

these) we always provide a path to your data.  If this again fails

with one product, it puts all of the others up for discussion.  Again,

not helpful.  (Read:  strategy = doomed).

 

+"So what about needing an entitlement for the freeware to open the

data I created in another version (a paid version) and reading it?

What if I want access and I dont want the 14-day time out?"+

 

So here's the deal...We can do better here.  So we will.  +Here's my

commitment to the group here for freeware that ensures you always have

a license that you can fall back on+ *without need of internet

connection* except when you first install it (which after all, you

would have had to get it in the first place):  *in version 8.1 or

8.0.1 or whathaveyou (let's call it 'a future release'), if you

install the SW and authenticate once, we'll remove the timer req. * So

what I'm saying another way is, the freeware will require you to login

the first time to get your license, but if you log out beyond that,

you're good.  You got your entitlement and you can use it freely

without connection.

 

Caveat:  to install an update, you will need to login.  The update

server (which issues the new version...e.g. 8.1 or 8.2. or 8.0.1,

etc.) requires that you login and get the update, but beyond that,

logout.  Thus if you want to go off-grid in a mountain cabin

somewhere, get your license at Starbucks (blagh! I understand they

have 'free' wifi, but no frappucinos!  ...that stuff is bad for you)

then get your license and go on your merry way up to the snow drenched

peaks.  When you hear from the other mountaineers or your local

yodeler that a new version of EAGLE is available...download, login,

get your license, get your 'decaf double-pump vanilla non-fat latte

macchiato' and head back up the slopes.

 

Point being, we can do the freeware better.  So we will.

 

Hope this is clear.  Let us know if you have questions!

 

Best regards,

 

Matt Berggren

Director - Autodesk

@technolomaniac

hackaday.io/matt

 

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Hi Jorge,

Could you please confirm one way or the other whether it will be made

possible to install Eagle in free mode without an internet connection?

This is important for long term contingency planning.

Thanks.

--

EAGLE support forums at http://www.eaglecentral.ca :: Where the EAGLE community meets.

On 2/1/2017 5:35 PM, Justyn wrote:

Hi Jorge,

 

Could you please confirm one way or the other whether it will be made

possible to install Eagle in free mode without an internet connection?

 

This is important for long term contingency planning.

 

Thanks.

Hi Justyn,

I hope you're doing well. You can see point number 1 on Matt's response

to the EAGLE license recommendation thread. I've copied it below for

your convenience:

"

1) The free version shouldn't expire and will only require a connection

the first time you open it.

"

This is the latest information I have on the subject.

Let me know if there's anything else I can do for you.

Best Regards,

Jorge Garcia

Well, that pretty much make Eagle a no go now.

Just as well that I have a bunch of the older versions around.

Now there much be some open source PCB programs thats worth supporting

K

Jorge Garcia wrote on Wed, 01 February 2017 21:27

On 2/1/2017 2:09 AM, Gerald Schwarz wrote:

Hello Ed,

 

1) who is Matt Berggren? Where he is working, employed in

AutoDesk?

 

He is the director of EAGLE and a few other products here at Autodesk.

 

He is the man at the helm of EAGLE and any decisions related to EAGLE

now go through him. He's also a part of the community as an engineer

and

designer.

 

You can find out more about him here:

http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/user/viewprofilepage/user-id/3659220

 

For his projects check out technolomaniac on hackaday.io

https://hackaday.io/matt

 

2) I wrote an answer to Matt here in this thread "EAGLE License

Recommendation

(/message/213959/l/eagle-license-recommendat-ion#213959)".

 

https://www.element14.com/community/update-advanced-comment.jspa?id=214891

 

What is now true?

 

This is where we stand now. EAGLE is going full subscription, we have

as

of right now free, standard and premium tiers.

Five months ago Matt Berggren wrote:

Quote:

@Dave, it's not going subscription. So there. At this stage, that

isn't anywhere on my roadmap.

Thought about it.  Decided against it.  Can I say that we will never in

the life of any product

do that?  No, of course not.

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/eda/autodesk-buys-eagle/msg977529/#msg977529

--

EAGLE support forums at http://www.eaglecentral.ca :: Where the EAGLE community meets.

Jorge Garcia wrote on Wed, 01 February 2017 21:27

On 2/1/2017 2:09 AM, Gerald Schwarz wrote:

Hello Ed,

 

1) who is Matt Berggren? Where he is working, employed in

AutoDesk?

 

He is the director of EAGLE and a few other products here at Autodesk.

 

He is the man at the helm of EAGLE and any decisions related to EAGLE

now go through him. He's also a part of the community as an engineer

and

designer.

 

You can find out more about him here:

http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/user/viewprofilepage/user-id/3659220

 

For his projects check out technolomaniac on hackaday.io

https://hackaday.io/matt

 

2) I wrote an answer to Matt here in this thread "EAGLE License

Recommendation

(/message/213959/l/eagle-license-recommendat-ion#213959)".

 

https://www.element14.com/community/update-advanced-comment.jspa?id=214891

 

What is now true?

 

This is where we stand now. EAGLE is going full subscription, we have

as

of right now free, standard and premium tiers.

Five months ago Matt Berggren wrote:

Quote:

@Dave, it's not going subscription. So there. At this stage, that

isn't anywhere on my roadmap.

Thought about it.  Decided against it.  Can I say that we will never in

the life of any product

do that?  No, of course not.

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/eda/autodesk-buys-eagle/msg977529/#msg977529

--

EAGLE support forums at http://www.eaglecentral.ca :: Where the EAGLE community meets.

Hi Jorge,

Thank you for the comments.

If the subscription expires, EAGLE will fall back to free mode. You can

still review your designs and generate manufacturing data. You just

won't be able to modify it outside the limits of the free version.

If so, then we cannot create complex components with the version 8 or newer.
This is too unsecure for the future.
Broken components will be a programmed "super Gau".

I must create now  the components with the version 6.6.0 because i have it in pro version.
Other users can create them with their last perpetual version (e.g. 7.5.0),

or going into the risk that after expiring the components will not work correct.

// -> The argument "You can review..., ... generate manufacturing data..." looks a bit like lobbyism.

How often do we have to generate this data, not often, only once or twice by sending to our circuit board

manufacturer or by checking by our customer.

This is done by completing our projects. Then all data is stored, archived and returned to our customers.

So, now the components are always used endlessly.

The components are also used for other projects.

->

This is the 2nd important point because we need all the layers from the small PCB to the large PCB.

This is our 2nd argument.

And that is not lobbying, but it is our technical and business life.

->

We will see what this year will bring with Eagle.

Last week I received an email from Autodesk Community

"Redeem your customer loyalty discount" with a promotion over 50% discount.

"ähm...," is that true? Then I feel happy and will use it.

Then it helps me to skip version 7 directly.

->

At least I can work with the full version in the first year.

In the second year, the truth will emerge, whether to lock up and search for another tool,

or with Eagle to continue working in further years.

I hope that AutoDesk calculates this and comes closer a little more to its customers.

Best Regards,

Gerald

---

We have a three-seat license to Eagle 6 Pro, but with this latest snafu we've switched to Diptrace.  Wasn't that hard.  (As a matter of fact we made the decision at the time of the Autodesk purchase, because we were pretty sure they'd do something like this.  Otherwise we'd have bought Eagle 7 Pro.)

Diptrace has ASCII import/export.  It also supplies Eagle ULPs that export Eagle schematics, boards, *and libraries*.

One drawback of Diptrace is that it isn't directly scriptable.  We've made a lot of Python scripts that hack up Diptrace's ASCII files, so instead of running a ULP as in Eagle, you export stuff, run a Python script on it, and import it again.  The ULPs that Diptrace supplies are good sample code for how to do that.

We thought of switching to KiCad, but our layout person much prefers Diptrace.

So there's life after Eagle.  A pity that Autodesk screwed the pooch like this--we'd certainly have stayed with Eagle otherwise.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

 

We will see what this year will bring with Eagle.

Last week I received an email from Autodesk Community

"Redeem your customer loyalty discount" with a promotion over 50% discount.

"ähm...," is that true? Then I feel happy and will use it.

Then it helps me to skip version 7 directly.

 

Hi Gerald,

The above is very true. Let me know if you have any problems redeeming

it or if you need any other assistance.

Best Regards,

Jorge Garcia

Autodesk Support

--

We have a new forum here <http://forums.autodesk.com>

Kim Pedersen wrote:

 

Well, that pretty much make Eagle a no go now.

Just as well that I have a bunch of the older versions around.

 

Now there much be some open source PCB programs thats worth supporting

 

K

Kicad

http://kicad-pcb.org/

is getting a lot of support from CERN, and has apparently really improved as a result of the funding.

Dave.

Hi Phil,

no DipTrace is too small.

Online Store - DipTrace

And the basic problem with this tool is that it is limited with pin numbers.

This is a huge problem.

Realize this please: route a μBGA and SMD plug with so 1000 pins ... well .... ok, you see the problem?

Even with the free version of Eagle, 80mmx100mm and 2 layers, you can route this μBGA, and plug together.

This is a huge advantage for Eagle !!

And, only the fewest board developers make of a 2 layer routes a 4 layer routes.

-> easy to mount wire bridges on each side, you already have a 4 layer board.

What I suggest to AutoDesk is much more important and it is necessary.

The user must be able to create complex components that can be connected to all layers.

Other CAD manufacturers also use pad stacks. Eagle does not have this possibility.

Therefore, this is even more important because the pin is directly related to the board.

Gerald

----

Hi Phil,

no DipTrace is too small.

Online Store - DipTrace

And the basic problem with this tool is that it is limited with pin numbers.

This is a huge problem.

Realize this please: route a μBGA and SMD plug with so 1000 pins ... well .... ok, you see the problem?

Even with the free version of Eagle, 80mmx100mm and 2 layers, you can route this μBGA, and plug together.

This is a huge advantage for Eagle !!

And, only the fewest board developers make of a 2 layer routes a 4 layer routes.

-> easy to mount wire bridges on each side, you already have a 4 layer board.

What I suggest to AutoDesk is much more important and it is necessary.

The user must be able to create complex components that can be connected to all layers.

Other CAD manufacturers also use pad stacks. Eagle does not have this possibility.

Therefore, this is even more important because the pin is directly related to the board.

Gerald

----

Gerald Schwarz wrote:

 

Hi Phil,

 

no DipTrace is too small.

Online Store - DipTrace

 

And the basic problem with this tool is that it is limited with pin numbers.

This is a huge problem.

Realize this please: route a μBGA and SMD plug with so 1000 pins ... well .... ok, you see the problem?

Even with the free version of Eagle, 80mmx100mm and 2 layers, you can route this μBGA, and plug together.

This is a huge advantage for Eagle !!

 

 

And, only the fewest board developers make of a 2 layer routes a 4 layer routes.

-> easy to mount wire bridges on each side, you already have a 4 layer board.

What I suggest to AutoDesk is much more important and it is necessary.

The user must be able to create complex components that can be connected to all layers.

Other CAD manufacturers also use pad stacks. Eagle does not have this possibility.

Therefore, this is even more important because the pin is directly related to the board.

 

Gerald

----

If I were doing PC mobos, I might care about that, but I'm not.   Diptrace's 2000 pin version is better than good enough for my stuff, and if it ever weren't, I can upgrade to the unlimited version for another 5 bills, i.e. 8 months' rental for the highest-spec Eagle, and then I get to stop paying.  The Diptrace folks also run a service bureau, so they eat their own dog food.

Re: Free Eagle.  You probably aren't going to be doing anything very useful on an 80x100 mm board with a 1000-pin FPGA on it, unless you have some magical connector to get all that stuff off the board.

Diptrace is available in an unlimited-pin version, reasonably priced.

And I have a perpetual license.

And it works stand-alone.

And the license terms are reasonable.

And I'm certainly not going to use rented software for anything whatsoever.  The intellectual property embodied in our designs is way too valuable to put it at another company's mercy like that, especially given Autodesk's flip-flop on the subscription model.

We still like Eagle round here, and would have been very unlikely to change except for the new licensing terms, despite the recent steep price increases--but the rental thing is a deal breaker.

However, we've moved on and won't be back.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

Hi,

Yes, it is true. I also do not love what AutoDesk do.

But currently I can not switch to another tool.

I am from PCAD, Protel, Altium Designer ..

.. I have no money to pay 1000e ... EUR every year plus support over 1000 / y.

My last PCAD was 2001 (cost 10000 EUR) plus 1200 EUR support (2001-2003).

Now the Altium Designer costs 6000 EUR; Altium Circuit Maker about 1200 EUR, or more ...

Mr. Friedrich laughs.

http://www.ibfriedrich.com/en/index.html#productsPage

- is a direct contest to Eagle.

Where should I go? - if you have already set up all the tools, has been optimized, depends on its customers ..

Eagle is not used every day, so it is even more difficult.

We also program μController, build modules, but are few employees.

Eagle is a fine European product, now it was nibbled with a bargain billing.

Gerald

---

Gerald Schwarz wrote:

 

Hi,

 

Yes, it is true. I also do not love what AutoDesk do.

 

 

But currently I can not switch to another tool.

 

 

I am from PCAD, Protel, Altium Designer ..

.. I have no money to pay 1000e ... EUR every year plus support over 1000 / y.

 

My last PCAD was 2001 (cost 10000 EUR) plus 1200 EUR support (2001-2003).

 

 

Now the Altium Designer costs 6000 EUR; Altium Circuit Maker about 1200 EUR, or more ...

 

Mr. Friedrich laughs.

http://www.ibfriedrich.com/en/index.html#productsPage

- is a direct contest to Eagle.

 

Where should I go? - if you have already set up all the tools, has been optimized, depends on its customers ..

 

Eagle is not used every day, so it is even more difficult.

We also program μController, build modules, but are few employees.

 

Eagle is a fine European product, now it was nibbled with a bargain billing.

 

Gerald

---

Well, Diptrace is from Ukraine, which is in Europe too, last time I checked.  (Of course Poland moved 100 miles west some years back, so I may be out of date.)

Diptrace will import your existing Eagle files, including libraries.

But for most purposes, just sticking with Eagle 6/7 is good enough.Plus that way you can archive the tool along with the design.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs