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Eagle v8 licensing...

technolomaniac

Hi All --

 

Moving this to a separate thread so it doesn't get lost in the ether.  Here's my two cents on licensing and I'd love your feedback:

 

Firstly, the Autodesk licensing model is subscription and the EAGLE paid license will require that you install the SW and then generate an account to retrieve your license entitlement.  Once you have this, you are good to go and the SW will run as expected.  If you lose your network connection, the SW has a 14-day heartbeat that will enable you to work offline for 14 days.  I know that some folks would prefer to never have to connect, but this is required to support a monthly subscription model that can be selectively enabled and disabled when you use the SW (so you only pay when you use it).  The total cost of ownership for those folks using it less than a few weeks a year will thus be substantially lower and still enables you to access the full software for less money.  <Insert revolt here>  image

 

WRT to "what happens if autodesk decides to one day just shut off the license server?" ...ok, sure, that's possible, but so is a reality TV star becoming President of the..cough...nevermind, bad example.

 

Point is, that's a pretty remote possibility (think: time travel and alien invasions) and it wouldn't benefit us *at all* to upset the users we just spent real money hoping to bring into autodesk and earn their business.  As the guy with both development and P&L for the product, I can tell you that it's counterintuitive and wouldn't benefit us at all.  We know this.  We make SW used by governments, movie studios, game developers, MEs, Civil Engineers, machinists, etc. and you can bet that shutting down a license server is not to our benefit in any of these categories.  To demonstrate this behavior in one category, without a path for user SW and data, calls into question ALL of our tools' viability under this model.  Not helpful.

 

Now...a question was raised about "but what if I drop my subscription and I want my data".  Awesome, the data is yours and lives on your machine.  And for SW that stores data in the cloud (we have some of these) we always provide a path to your data.  If this again fails with one product, it puts all of the others up for discussion.  Again, not helpful.  (Read:  strategy = doomed).

 

"So what about needing an entitlement for the freeware to open the data I created in another version (a *paid* version) and reading it?  What if I want access and I dont want the 14-day time out?"

 

So here's the deal...We can do better here.  So we will.  Here's my commitment to the group here for freeware that ensures you always have a license that you can fall back on without need of internet connection *except when you first install it* (which after all, you would have had to get it in the first place):  in version 8.1 or 8.0.1 or whathaveyou (let's call it 'a future release'), if you install the SW and authenticate once, we'll remove the timer req.  So what I'm saying another way is, the freeware will require you to login the first time to get your license, but if you log out beyond that, you're good.  You got your entitlement and you can use it freely without connection.

 

Caveat:  to install an update, you will need to login.  The update server (which issues the new version...e.g. 8.1 or 8.2. or 8.0.1, etc.) requires that you login and get the update, but beyond that, logout.  Thus if you want to go off-grid in a mountain cabin somewhere, get your license at Starbucks (blagh! I understand they have 'free' wifi, but no frappucinos!  ...that stuff is bad for you) then get your license and go on your merry way up to the snow drenched peaks.  When you hear from the other mountaineers or your local yodeler that a new version of EAGLE is available...download, login, get your license, get your 'decaf double-pump vanilla non-fat latte macchiato' and head back up the slopes.

 

Point being, we can do the freeware better.  So we will.

 

Hope this is clear.  Let us know if you have questions!

 

Best regards,

 

Matt Berggren

Director - Autodesk

@technolomaniac

hackaday.io/matt

Parents

  • The purpose of that post was to get your attention.  Your license changes have likely destroyed your product.  You haven't listened to your small customers.  Adafruit and Sparkfun are concrete evidence from your bell cow customers.

  • in reply to bvwj

    Thank you for the reply.  And my comment was simply that telegraphing your frustrations as a statement like that, without a link to the article, post, etc. is not productive.   We understand that for some percentage of users, the license changes were undesirable.  This is something that we've discussed in detail and we are doing *much* more than simply 'changing the licensing' with EAGLE. 

     

    The real value of eagle is around productivity in engineering and design, and we are improving productivity each and every day.  The features that are coming (obstacle avoidance in routing, better trace cleanup and alignment tools, push and shove & multitrack routing, bidirectional MCAD integration, better layer handling, improvements to libraries and component creation, etc.) will define the future of EAGLE far more than the licensing model. 

     

    Cheers,

     

    Matt - Autodesk.

  • in reply to technolomaniac

    Hello Matt,

     

    I'm sure you've also read my posts in the Eagle forums.

    First of all, thank you, also to Jorge, for upgrading my proposal on the circuit boards (standard PCB) layers from two layers to four layers.

    Fine, but I asked over 4 years for many other features, features that we had since the 6. version. - e.g. standard PCB 160cm² with 6 layers.
    Or features that I've been working with since 198x, 199x's ... with PCAD, what I've suggested to get it also in Eagle.

    The ears were sleeping. Since then I know that with Cadsoft will very difficult, it will be messy with all.
    So the price, the licensing policy gives me right, gives me true, what I said.
    And I'm not alone.

     

    I also know about AutoDesk since the 198x's (in 200x's I was also a reseller of special tools like this, eg Autocad or similar).

    Ok, ok, ok, ok, ... actually I can not change the tool, back to PCAD / Master Designer; It's too expensive at the moment. And my customer also have Eagle.

    This is the point - Eagle have nothing to do with other (since MSDOS era), and that have over 30 years.

    Ok, after 30 years you will now take off Eagle like a rocket; Hm, are you sure the headwind is not too strong yet?

    As I have often described:
    In order to work properly, we need ALL layers, even with the small standard PCB.
    Otherwise it is a toy.

     

    TODAY in the 21st century, the standards are quite different than they were 30 years ago.
    How should you use a standard PCB to route PGA or BGA with many pins? So, you NEED more than 4 layers.
    The dimension (routing area) is another standard.
    Here we can discuss the price.

    The next lobbying game is: "schools, universities get 3 years free license".
    What should that? Why should we pay for the schools? This is an over advantage.

     

    First with V8.0.x if it is possible:
    ) What i need is "impedance controlled routing" Wire pairs, where are this button?
    ) Bus routing is most important, manually also automatic.
    ) Today we have RF-PCB, not just digitally. Mixed topologies of PCB with e.g. WLAN on board.

    ) Today we have also air or liquid cooled PCBs or we have components mounted in layers.

    ) AND THIS ALL WITH STANDARD PCB!

    ) Pad-Stacks separat through all layers,  that we can create complex pads.

    ) Flash!!!! of pads not just drawing. Then the pads, or polygons does not coming as octagons.

    ) Editing wire shapes, vertices (not just mitering, -> Split; where is " Unsplit "). Button "Optimize" - hm.....

    !!!) After expiring the license period that the license must stay at last update quality.

    It is horrible if the dimension will falling down to a demo version, to a toy of 80cm² with two layers.

     

    ... etc....

     

    I have a company that works also hard to get projects, also what i said in the other forums here.

    I think, you see the problematics what have small companies.

     

    Best Regards,

    Gerald

    ---

Reply
  • in reply to technolomaniac

    Hello Matt,

     

    I'm sure you've also read my posts in the Eagle forums.

    First of all, thank you, also to Jorge, for upgrading my proposal on the circuit boards (standard PCB) layers from two layers to four layers.

    Fine, but I asked over 4 years for many other features, features that we had since the 6. version. - e.g. standard PCB 160cm² with 6 layers.
    Or features that I've been working with since 198x, 199x's ... with PCAD, what I've suggested to get it also in Eagle.

    The ears were sleeping. Since then I know that with Cadsoft will very difficult, it will be messy with all.
    So the price, the licensing policy gives me right, gives me true, what I said.
    And I'm not alone.

     

    I also know about AutoDesk since the 198x's (in 200x's I was also a reseller of special tools like this, eg Autocad or similar).

    Ok, ok, ok, ok, ... actually I can not change the tool, back to PCAD / Master Designer; It's too expensive at the moment. And my customer also have Eagle.

    This is the point - Eagle have nothing to do with other (since MSDOS era), and that have over 30 years.

    Ok, after 30 years you will now take off Eagle like a rocket; Hm, are you sure the headwind is not too strong yet?

    As I have often described:
    In order to work properly, we need ALL layers, even with the small standard PCB.
    Otherwise it is a toy.

     

    TODAY in the 21st century, the standards are quite different than they were 30 years ago.
    How should you use a standard PCB to route PGA or BGA with many pins? So, you NEED more than 4 layers.
    The dimension (routing area) is another standard.
    Here we can discuss the price.

    The next lobbying game is: "schools, universities get 3 years free license".
    What should that? Why should we pay for the schools? This is an over advantage.

     

    First with V8.0.x if it is possible:
    ) What i need is "impedance controlled routing" Wire pairs, where are this button?
    ) Bus routing is most important, manually also automatic.
    ) Today we have RF-PCB, not just digitally. Mixed topologies of PCB with e.g. WLAN on board.

    ) Today we have also air or liquid cooled PCBs or we have components mounted in layers.

    ) AND THIS ALL WITH STANDARD PCB!

    ) Pad-Stacks separat through all layers,  that we can create complex pads.

    ) Flash!!!! of pads not just drawing. Then the pads, or polygons does not coming as octagons.

    ) Editing wire shapes, vertices (not just mitering, -> Split; where is " Unsplit "). Button "Optimize" - hm.....

    !!!) After expiring the license period that the license must stay at last update quality.

    It is horrible if the dimension will falling down to a demo version, to a toy of 80cm² with two layers.

     

    ... etc....

     

    I have a company that works also hard to get projects, also what i said in the other forums here.

    I think, you see the problematics what have small companies.

     

    Best Regards,

    Gerald

    ---

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