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Autodesk EAGLE
EAGLE User Chat (English) Eagle v8 licensing...
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  • Replies 415 replies
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  • eagle
  • license
  • freeware
  • 8.0
Related

Eagle v8 licensing...

technolomaniac
technolomaniac over 8 years ago

Hi All --

 

Moving this to a separate thread so it doesn't get lost in the ether.  Here's my two cents on licensing and I'd love your feedback:

 

Firstly, the Autodesk licensing model is subscription and the EAGLE paid license will require that you install the SW and then generate an account to retrieve your license entitlement.  Once you have this, you are good to go and the SW will run as expected.  If you lose your network connection, the SW has a 14-day heartbeat that will enable you to work offline for 14 days.  I know that some folks would prefer to never have to connect, but this is required to support a monthly subscription model that can be selectively enabled and disabled when you use the SW (so you only pay when you use it).  The total cost of ownership for those folks using it less than a few weeks a year will thus be substantially lower and still enables you to access the full software for less money.  <Insert revolt here>  image

 

WRT to "what happens if autodesk decides to one day just shut off the license server?" ...ok, sure, that's possible, but so is a reality TV star becoming President of the..cough...nevermind, bad example.

 

Point is, that's a pretty remote possibility (think: time travel and alien invasions) and it wouldn't benefit us *at all* to upset the users we just spent real money hoping to bring into autodesk and earn their business.  As the guy with both development and P&L for the product, I can tell you that it's counterintuitive and wouldn't benefit us at all.  We know this.  We make SW used by governments, movie studios, game developers, MEs, Civil Engineers, machinists, etc. and you can bet that shutting down a license server is not to our benefit in any of these categories.  To demonstrate this behavior in one category, without a path for user SW and data, calls into question ALL of our tools' viability under this model.  Not helpful.

 

Now...a question was raised about "but what if I drop my subscription and I want my data".  Awesome, the data is yours and lives on your machine.  And for SW that stores data in the cloud (we have some of these) we always provide a path to your data.  If this again fails with one product, it puts all of the others up for discussion.  Again, not helpful.  (Read:  strategy = doomed).

 

"So what about needing an entitlement for the freeware to open the data I created in another version (a *paid* version) and reading it?  What if I want access and I dont want the 14-day time out?"

 

So here's the deal...We can do better here.  So we will.  Here's my commitment to the group here for freeware that ensures you always have a license that you can fall back on without need of internet connection *except when you first install it* (which after all, you would have had to get it in the first place):  in version 8.1 or 8.0.1 or whathaveyou (let's call it 'a future release'), if you install the SW and authenticate once, we'll remove the timer req.  So what I'm saying another way is, the freeware will require you to login the first time to get your license, but if you log out beyond that, you're good.  You got your entitlement and you can use it freely without connection.

 

Caveat:  to install an update, you will need to login.  The update server (which issues the new version...e.g. 8.1 or 8.2. or 8.0.1, etc.) requires that you login and get the update, but beyond that, logout.  Thus if you want to go off-grid in a mountain cabin somewhere, get your license at Starbucks (blagh! I understand they have 'free' wifi, but no frappucinos!  ...that stuff is bad for you) then get your license and go on your merry way up to the snow drenched peaks.  When you hear from the other mountaineers or your local yodeler that a new version of EAGLE is available...download, login, get your license, get your 'decaf double-pump vanilla non-fat latte macchiato' and head back up the slopes.

 

Point being, we can do the freeware better.  So we will.

 

Hope this is clear.  Let us know if you have questions!

 

Best regards,

 

Matt Berggren

Director - Autodesk

@technolomaniac

hackaday.io/matt

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Top Replies

  • COMPACT
    COMPACT over 8 years ago in reply to autodeskguest +4
    Not to worry, it's back to the Drawing board for me.
  • shabaz
    shabaz over 8 years ago +3
    Hi Matt, When will the EAGLE Maker version (or another solution for hobbiests) be v8-ready? I see the subscription for 'EAGLE Standard' and 'EAGLE Premium' are now available on the website, but not EAGLE…
  • albertovignati
    albertovignati over 8 years ago in reply to techsupport +3
    Il 21/02/2017 22:54, Ed Robledo ha scritto: The customers are the sole driving force to the improvements to EAGLE. Some of these 'wants' take time to be done right, that's the reason they were not done…
Parents
  • Joop14
    Joop14 over 8 years ago

    http://www.altium.com/eagle-switch/altium-designer/

     

    It was just a matter of time...

     

    --

    EAGLE support forums at http://www.eaglecentral.ca :: Where the EAGLE community meets.

     

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  • autodeskguest
    autodeskguest over 8 years ago in reply to Joop14

    On 19.02.2017 10:50, Joop wrote:

    http://www.altium.com/eagle-switch/altium-designer/

     

    It was just a matter of time...

     

     

    Well the market provides what the customer demands... If not from

    Autodesk then from someone else...

     

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  • sauerwald
    sauerwald over 8 years ago in reply to autodeskguest

    I use both Altium and Eagle, professionally, and both have advantages and disadvantages.   I'll continue to use my perpetual license for Eagle 7, and when that no longer works for me I will re-evaluate.

     

    Altium not an option for hobbyists.   With what it costs for a perpetual license from Altium, you could pay for 20 years of subscription fees to Eagle. 

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  • geralds
    geralds over 8 years ago in reply to sauerwald

    Hi,

     

    not the price is the problem.

     

    The problem is that after expiring the license period the license quality will falling back to the free version.

    The free version has 80cm² with two layers, the standard version has 160cm² with 4 layers (since V8.0.1),

    the premium version has unlimited dimension with 16 layers.

     

    So you can select between free version, or free version after one year,

    or free version after one month if you have a monthly subscription. image

     

    That's the problem. That's the game of Kiddy Kit Cats, the Eagle will be a toy.

     

    Gerald

    ---

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  • rachaelp
    rachaelp over 8 years ago in reply to geralds

    Hi Gerald,

     

    Gerald Schwarz wrote:

     

    The problem is that after expiring the license period the license quality will falling back to the free version.

     

    Yes this will happen with the v8 version when the license expires but you can always go back to v6/v7.

     

    In another thread (here: https://www.element14.com/community/thread/58485/l/eagle-license-recommendat-ion) it is stated that there is the intention given to provide equivalent legacy v7 licenses with an EAGLE v8 subscription and ensure v8 can export a v7 compatible file. The exact details of what subscription term earns a v7 license isn't given and nothing has been mentioned on this outside of this one post but if this happens then it's workable as v7 is still capable, it just won't have the latest v8 routing features available.

     

    Here is a copy of the pertinent section from that post:

     

     

    Matt Berggren wrote:

     

    8) We will continue to make all legacy and new versions available for download.

    9) We will provide you a license of an earlier, Cadsoft version of EAGLE with the purchase of subscription (this is as-is, with no support implied...it will match your current tier...some work to make sure we get this right just yet, but it's coming).

    10). We'll look to build an exporter to the legacy version 6 format and ensure, for the first time, backwards compatibility.

     

    I know it's not as good as the option to have a perpetual v8 license but I don't think they are going to change their minds on this and for me being able to fall back to v7 is workable.

     

    Best Regards,

     

    Rachael

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  • autodeskguest
    autodeskguest over 8 years ago in reply to geralds

    Gerald Schwarz schrieb:

    Hi,

     

    not the price is the problem.

     

    100% ACK!

     

    The problem is that after expiring the license period the license quality will falling back to the free version.

    The free version has 80cm² with two layers, the standard version has 160cm² with 4 layers (since V8.0.1),

    the premium version has unlimited dimension with 16 layers.

     

    So you can select between free version, or free version after one year,

    or free version after one month if you have a monthly subscription. image

     

    That's the problem.

     

    100% ACK!

     

    Andreas

     

     

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  • geralds
    geralds over 8 years ago in reply to rachaelp

    Hi Rachael,

     

    sorry, no, absolutely no.

    I d not like go back if i have reached the top quality. That's negative logical.

    rachaelp wrote:

     

    Hi Gerald,

     

    Gerald Schwarz wrote:

     

    The problem is that after expiring the license period the license quality will falling back to the free version.

     

    Yes this will happen with the v8 version when the license expires but you can always go back to v6/v7.

     

    One question: are you an employee in AutoDesk because you argument this? Because i have read this so... "three times" also in other forums.

    I cannot go backwards. Minimum that the "file backwards compatibility" not really works. I don't believe that, absolutely not.

    Sorry for this question. image

    V7 would not have the functions that then V8 will have. Also software functions will be not compatible.

    And most important, i pay for the V8 and then?... Sorry, with this argument I fall a little bit into angry. Paying double, tripple..??? sorry, grrrrrr......

    Matt Berggren wrote:

     

    ....

    10). We'll look to build an exporter to the legacy version 6 format and ensure, for the first time, backwards compatibility.

    ----

     

    I know it's not as good as the option to have a perpetual v8 license but I don't think they are going to change their minds on this and for me being able to fall back to v7 is workable.

     

     

    Best Regards,

    Gerald

    ---

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Reply
  • geralds
    geralds over 8 years ago in reply to rachaelp

    Hi Rachael,

     

    sorry, no, absolutely no.

    I d not like go back if i have reached the top quality. That's negative logical.

    rachaelp wrote:

     

    Hi Gerald,

     

    Gerald Schwarz wrote:

     

    The problem is that after expiring the license period the license quality will falling back to the free version.

     

    Yes this will happen with the v8 version when the license expires but you can always go back to v6/v7.

     

    One question: are you an employee in AutoDesk because you argument this? Because i have read this so... "three times" also in other forums.

    I cannot go backwards. Minimum that the "file backwards compatibility" not really works. I don't believe that, absolutely not.

    Sorry for this question. image

    V7 would not have the functions that then V8 will have. Also software functions will be not compatible.

    And most important, i pay for the V8 and then?... Sorry, with this argument I fall a little bit into angry. Paying double, tripple..??? sorry, grrrrrr......

    Matt Berggren wrote:

     

    ....

    10). We'll look to build an exporter to the legacy version 6 format and ensure, for the first time, backwards compatibility.

    ----

     

    I know it's not as good as the option to have a perpetual v8 license but I don't think they are going to change their minds on this and for me being able to fall back to v7 is workable.

     

     

    Best Regards,

    Gerald

    ---

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  • rachaelp
    rachaelp over 8 years ago in reply to geralds

    Hi Gerald,

    Gerald Schwarz wrote:

     

    One question: are you an employee in AutoDesk because you argument this? Because i have read this so... "three times" also in other forums.

    No. I am NOT an Autodesk employee, just an EAGLE user like you. I'm not 100% happy with the subscription model but I can live with it and I have no real choice anyway. For me I don't think it costs any more and I can mitigate the issues of not being able to edit designs if I were to go to v8 and then end my subscription as it should be possible fall back to v7 and make any edits there. Yes you wouldn't have the latest router but you'd still have all the capabilities of v7 so for most changes this would be just fine. If you aren't happy with the v8 licensing model then just stick with v7, it is perpetual and quite a capable tool and sticking with it is far easier than migrating to something else if it is currently working ok for you. There are still people working happily on v4/v5 licenses after all!

     

    As I have said in may other threads, whilst this licensing change with no perpetual option isn't ideal, for me it's less of an issue than throwing out everything I currently have and starting again from scratch with a new toolset and creating new libraries, methods of working etc.... etc.... etc.... I'm willing to wait an see what happens. Hopefully they may give more concessions on the licensing (maybe this is just wishful thinking?), lets see what the new router brings and what other features are coming and judge how things are in 6-12 months time when we've had a chance to see how EAGLE develops. This is my view anyway. I may be being overly optimistic that things will turn out alright in the end but I'm prepared to wait and see.

     

    Best Regards,

     

    Rachael

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  • Jan Cumps
    Jan Cumps over 8 years ago in reply to rachaelp

    And that 'll be very likely what most professional licencees will do. Any retraining/retooling is more expensive (be it hours or money) than the license hit.

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  • autodeskguest
    autodeskguest over 8 years ago in reply to rachaelp

    Hi Rachel,

     

    you're paying your fee right now in the hope, that there's something

    worth it in 6..12 month. What if not?

     

    Yes, I too created a ton of parts in the past 20 years. This is why I'm

    still using EAGLE, and my license is still valid. However, I'm not going

    to ride that dead horse until the universe collapses. Also, I can't see

    why re-creating libraries is such a big problem. Yes, it definitely

    causes a lot additional work. But you're creating the parts as you need

    them, as you did in the past, one after each other and not all at once.

    Then, you don't have to create all the parts a second time. Or do you

    still use parts added, say, 15 years ago in new designs?

     

    Fortunately, we have all the time we need to evaluate and familiarize in

    different packages.

     

    Rene

     

     

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  • rachaelp
    rachaelp over 8 years ago in reply to autodeskguest

    rk wrote on Mon, 20 February 2017 14:11

    Hi Rachel,

     

    you're paying your fee right now in the hope, that there's something

    worth it in 6..12 month. What if not?

     

     

    Nope, I'm not upgrading to v8 until I have seen the stability issues that

    they introduced completely fixed and I have evaluated the new router (in

    the freeware version) to ensure it works well. Until then I have my v7 Pro

    license which I am happy with.

     

    rk wrote on Mon, 20 February 2017 14:11

    Yes, I too created a ton of parts in the past 20 years. This is why

    I'm

    still using EAGLE, and my license is still valid. However, I'm not

    going

    to ride that dead horse until the universe collapses.

     

     

    No, neither am I, if we don't get the stability back and we don't start to

    see really impressive new features then I will be disappointed and will

    re-evaluate my design tools at this point. But I am happy with v7 for now

    and could carry on for quite a while with that if needed so I am going to

    wait and see.

     

    rk wrote on Mon, 20 February 2017 14:11

    Also, I can't see why re-creating libraries is such a big problem. Yes,

    it definitely

    causes a lot additional work. But you're creating the parts as you

    need

    them, as you did in the past, one after each other and not all at

    once.

    Then, you don't have to create all the parts a second time. Or do

    you

    still use parts added, say, 15 years ago in new designs?

     

     

    It's rare to use a part from 15 years ago but occasionally it's needed if

    you have to go back to something legacy. Creating parts is always a lot

    quicker when you have an existing parts library to base things upon.

    There's much more chance you already have the footprint available and often

    there will be a similar part to adapt your symbol(s) for a new part from

    and if you are reusing proven library data then less chance of errors being

    introduced.

     

    Starting completely from scratch is definitely a lot more work and

    factoring in how much an hour of your time costs to your company then

    recreating libraries, tools, processes, etc from scratch can add up quickly

    and dwarf the cost of buying a different toolset.

     

    rk wrote on Mon, 20 February 2017 14:11

    Fortunately, we have all the time we need to evaluate and familiarize

    in

    different packages.

     

    Rene

     

     

    Agreed, there's time to see how things pan out. I'm optimistic things will

    work out ok in the end image

     

    Best Regards,

     

    Rachael

     

     

     

    --

    EAGLE support forums at http://www.eaglecentral.ca :: Where the EAGLE community meets.

     

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