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Eagle v8 licensing...

technolomaniac

Hi All --

 

Moving this to a separate thread so it doesn't get lost in the ether.  Here's my two cents on licensing and I'd love your feedback:

 

Firstly, the Autodesk licensing model is subscription and the EAGLE paid license will require that you install the SW and then generate an account to retrieve your license entitlement.  Once you have this, you are good to go and the SW will run as expected.  If you lose your network connection, the SW has a 14-day heartbeat that will enable you to work offline for 14 days.  I know that some folks would prefer to never have to connect, but this is required to support a monthly subscription model that can be selectively enabled and disabled when you use the SW (so you only pay when you use it).  The total cost of ownership for those folks using it less than a few weeks a year will thus be substantially lower and still enables you to access the full software for less money.  <Insert revolt here>  image

 

WRT to "what happens if autodesk decides to one day just shut off the license server?" ...ok, sure, that's possible, but so is a reality TV star becoming President of the..cough...nevermind, bad example.

 

Point is, that's a pretty remote possibility (think: time travel and alien invasions) and it wouldn't benefit us *at all* to upset the users we just spent real money hoping to bring into autodesk and earn their business.  As the guy with both development and P&L for the product, I can tell you that it's counterintuitive and wouldn't benefit us at all.  We know this.  We make SW used by governments, movie studios, game developers, MEs, Civil Engineers, machinists, etc. and you can bet that shutting down a license server is not to our benefit in any of these categories.  To demonstrate this behavior in one category, without a path for user SW and data, calls into question ALL of our tools' viability under this model.  Not helpful.

 

Now...a question was raised about "but what if I drop my subscription and I want my data".  Awesome, the data is yours and lives on your machine.  And for SW that stores data in the cloud (we have some of these) we always provide a path to your data.  If this again fails with one product, it puts all of the others up for discussion.  Again, not helpful.  (Read:  strategy = doomed).

 

"So what about needing an entitlement for the freeware to open the data I created in another version (a *paid* version) and reading it?  What if I want access and I dont want the 14-day time out?"

 

So here's the deal...We can do better here.  So we will.  Here's my commitment to the group here for freeware that ensures you always have a license that you can fall back on without need of internet connection *except when you first install it* (which after all, you would have had to get it in the first place):  in version 8.1 or 8.0.1 or whathaveyou (let's call it 'a future release'), if you install the SW and authenticate once, we'll remove the timer req.  So what I'm saying another way is, the freeware will require you to login the first time to get your license, but if you log out beyond that, you're good.  You got your entitlement and you can use it freely without connection.

 

Caveat:  to install an update, you will need to login.  The update server (which issues the new version...e.g. 8.1 or 8.2. or 8.0.1, etc.) requires that you login and get the update, but beyond that, logout.  Thus if you want to go off-grid in a mountain cabin somewhere, get your license at Starbucks (blagh! I understand they have 'free' wifi, but no frappucinos!  ...that stuff is bad for you) then get your license and go on your merry way up to the snow drenched peaks.  When you hear from the other mountaineers or your local yodeler that a new version of EAGLE is available...download, login, get your license, get your 'decaf double-pump vanilla non-fat latte macchiato' and head back up the slopes.

 

Point being, we can do the freeware better.  So we will.

 

Hope this is clear.  Let us know if you have questions!

 

Best regards,

 

Matt Berggren

Director - Autodesk

@technolomaniac

hackaday.io/matt

  • in reply to rbtx99

    On 23.02.2017 00:41, rbtx99 wrote:

    It is. Make a poll on the Autodesk Website which license model the

    customer wants and provide the license model according to poll result.

     

    Why? You don't need to chose one or the other. You can have both licensing models at the same time and if someone is willing to take the risk with the online activation license... good luck to him.

     

     

    I guess supporting both models has some bad drawbacks. Autodesk would

    have to maintain every version up to each customers level, and there is

    no way they can handle revisions of all the old versions. I think

    autodesk wants a flat version model, where all the focus goes into the

    next common release, and those who pay get to play.

     

     

  • posted :  Actually if I were to choose I would much prefer the old license

    model, but it is not going to happen

     

    Why would it not happen?  What would prevent it?  Autodesk is giving upon

    Eagle business already?? I'm not sure what the difficulty Autodesk has in

    reverting to the standard Eagle license.  They can still offer a

    subscription.

     

    This should probably be moved up the chain of command at Autodesk or its

    board members--if they hear that many many customers are getting more &

    more upset with Autodesk products, hindered development and not listening

    to customers, then they may be inclined to listen more attentively.

     

    There are many EDA news boards out there and the facts of how Eagle

    customers are being treated can be posted there as well.  They may want to

    consider what is happening with Eagle when evaluating it.

     

    --

    EAGLE support forums at http://www.eaglecentral.ca :: Where the EAGLE community meets.

     

  • in reply to autodeskguest

    Commerce is delivering a product that the costumer wants, and asking a competitive price for that.

     

    if you let your customers poll what your price should be, you're bankrupt in minutes.

  • in reply to autodeskguest

    It is. Make a poll on the Autodesk Website which license model the

    customer wants and provide the license model according to poll result.

     

    Why? Autodesk don't need to use only one or the other. You can have both licensing models at the same time and if someone is willing to take the risk with the online activation license... good luck to him.

  • in reply to techsupport

    On 21.02.2017 22:54, Ed Robledo wrote:

     

    The license isn't broken, nothing to fix there.

     

    It is. Make a poll on the Autodesk Website which license model the

    customer wants and provide the license model according to poll result.

     

    Ah wait.... Democracy has issues in the US recently...

     

    Markus

     

     

  • in reply to brentbolton

    On 22.02.2017 23:13, Brent Bolton wrote:

    The bottom line for me is that you need to listen to your customers. If only half the people on this forum are screaming about the license, and I think it's more than that, then you've made that amount of your customer base angry at you. That's never a good business strategy. I plan to stay angry with Autodesk until they change the license, and maybe after that if it doesn't happen promptly.

     

    Yep, exactly.

     

    I should also remind you that designers like me don't necessarily stay in one CAD silo. I do mechanical design as well, have used Autodesk tools, and used to have a favorable opinion of the company.

     

    The guy in charge of our Inventor Licenses at my company is also pissed

    and will stay with Inventor 2014 as long as possible as Autodesk refuses

    to sell perpetual licenses. Gained revenue for Autodesk = NIL

     

    So that makes already two people being pissed image

     

    As a lot of people said, it's not about the money. I would even buy a

    perpetual license if it's double the price it was before at CadSoft,

    even with the EUR surcharge. To support the development. It's money in

    advance for Autodesk.

     

    But I will not let me be treaten as cash cow ad infinitum.

     

    So no pertpetual license = money paid from my side = NIL

     

    Markus

     

     

  • in reply to rachaelp

    Rachael,

     

    You are missing the big picture.  Many of us do not believe Eagle can survive under this new licensing model.  Over the years I have moved 4 different companies to Eagle, none of them are interested in the subscription license.  Clearly there are a few of you who can accept the new model, but the question is are there enough of you to keep Eagle alive at Autodesk.  My calculation is no.  They will miss their revenue goals and the project will be abandon.  Their promises of more improvements and backward compatibility are worth exactly as much as their promise 6 months ago that they wouldn't go subscription.

     

    It's our responsibility as business people to evaluate the viability of our suppliers.   Subscription Eagle at Autodesk isn't viable because they won't attract the customers.  The value proposition just isn't there.  They have no defensible market between KiCad and Altium.  Non-subscription Eagle at Autodesk isn't viable because it doesn't match their integrated software as a service goals.  So Eagle is dead.  That is very painful for many of us.  It actually makes me sick in my stomach, but you have to deal with the hard reality.  There is no reason to risk your company's productivity on someone else's fantasy business model even if the community used to be enjoyable.  I think any time spent on v8 is wasted in the long run.

     

    Sorry

  • in reply to brentbolton

    Brent Bolton wrote:

     

    Yes, I see that now from your earlier posts. It might help if you wrote so as not to sound like an Autodesk employee. I'm glad that the subscription model works for you -- I conceded in an earlier post that it is certainly good for a class of users. And I also said that Autodesk could easily offer both license types, if they wanted. Apparently they don't want to so they may get to join my CAD company no-fly list. You should care about this also, even though you like the new license, as if enough of us leave Eagle and it gets a bad rep in the design community, then Autodesk may just kill it off and you're left without a good CAD solution as well.

     

    Best,
    Brent

    Hi Brent,

     

    Actually if I were to choose I would much prefer the old license model, but it is not going to happen I don't think and what we have now is way better than what Farnell tried to do and at least now there is significant development resources going into improving EAGLE. I could get angry about the licensing but that wont solve anything so I am choosing to be positive about it and move forward. I can mitigate the negatives, and on balance it will cost me about the same as I will just have annual premium subscriptions which, factoring in upgrade cycles previously, works out about the same. Additionally, if I need any short term assistance and need a second license for a few months it works out a lot cheaper as I wont need to buy a complete second license Just a second subscription for a short period.

     

    Bedt Regards,

     

    Rachael

  • in reply to Jan Cumps

    Jan,

     

    What you say makes no sense if one looks at the Eagle community that I

    know. It seams by my count on EEVblog or wherever I have looked that the

    vast majority of Eagle users are NOT in favor of the pay forever

    subscription model, especially if the current version does all that they

    need.

     

    In many cases quality software can be used for decades without any updates.

    I ran Tango Series II DOS for years at the last version only having to

    abandon it due only to the inability to run it on modern operating systems.

    Ask the fellows out there that are still running OrCAD 386+ DOS in DOSBox.

    It runs perfectly fine and you can still make any PCB you want with it.

    There are users out there that still do the real work with the DOS version

    because in the end it's the Gerber files that define the board. As long as

    you can make the files you need with whatever software you are running that

    is all that really counts. For the Eagle users that have been satisfied

    with what they purchased there is no real advantage to upgrading and in

    fact I have seen more issues in the software world break with an upgrade.

     

    On the single response that you note my preference for a tool is just a

    suggestion users can try it or not but I do not know any other program that

    offers the performance at 10X the cost (actuallly 20X as it has more power

    than my Tango Series II had and it was purchased for 995.00 in 1980's era

    dollard. Don't knock it until you tried it. It's quick, simple and low

    cost. Everything that ANY subscription model isn't

     

    One more issue: Government entities do not like any type of online register

    only or cloud based systems due to security concerns. Eagle will probably

    loose some customers that fall into that category as well. I know quite a

    few that use LPKF machines to make boards for "black projects" and a lot of

    them used Eagle.

     

    I short AutoDesk should have just let the sleeping dog lie.

     

    I should have added the usual disclaimer that I have no financial interest

    in any of the companies I have mentioned nor any distributors of same.

     

    Best regards,

     

    Sam

  • in reply to rachaelp

    Yes, I see that now from your earlier posts. It might help if you wrote so as not to sound like an Autodesk employee. I'm glad that the subscription model works for you -- I conceded in an earlier post that it is certainly good for a class of users. And I also said that Autodesk could easily offer both license types, if they wanted. Apparently they don't want to so they may get to join my CAD company no-fly list. You should care about this also, even though you like the new license, as if enough of us leave Eagle and it gets a bad rep in the design community, then Autodesk may just kill it off and you're left without a good CAD solution as well.

     

    Best,
    Brent