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EAGLE User Chat (English) Eagle v8 licensing...
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  • eagle
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  • 8.0
Related

Eagle v8 licensing...

technolomaniac
technolomaniac over 8 years ago

Hi All --

 

Moving this to a separate thread so it doesn't get lost in the ether.  Here's my two cents on licensing and I'd love your feedback:

 

Firstly, the Autodesk licensing model is subscription and the EAGLE paid license will require that you install the SW and then generate an account to retrieve your license entitlement.  Once you have this, you are good to go and the SW will run as expected.  If you lose your network connection, the SW has a 14-day heartbeat that will enable you to work offline for 14 days.  I know that some folks would prefer to never have to connect, but this is required to support a monthly subscription model that can be selectively enabled and disabled when you use the SW (so you only pay when you use it).  The total cost of ownership for those folks using it less than a few weeks a year will thus be substantially lower and still enables you to access the full software for less money.  <Insert revolt here>  image

 

WRT to "what happens if autodesk decides to one day just shut off the license server?" ...ok, sure, that's possible, but so is a reality TV star becoming President of the..cough...nevermind, bad example.

 

Point is, that's a pretty remote possibility (think: time travel and alien invasions) and it wouldn't benefit us *at all* to upset the users we just spent real money hoping to bring into autodesk and earn their business.  As the guy with both development and P&L for the product, I can tell you that it's counterintuitive and wouldn't benefit us at all.  We know this.  We make SW used by governments, movie studios, game developers, MEs, Civil Engineers, machinists, etc. and you can bet that shutting down a license server is not to our benefit in any of these categories.  To demonstrate this behavior in one category, without a path for user SW and data, calls into question ALL of our tools' viability under this model.  Not helpful.

 

Now...a question was raised about "but what if I drop my subscription and I want my data".  Awesome, the data is yours and lives on your machine.  And for SW that stores data in the cloud (we have some of these) we always provide a path to your data.  If this again fails with one product, it puts all of the others up for discussion.  Again, not helpful.  (Read:  strategy = doomed).

 

"So what about needing an entitlement for the freeware to open the data I created in another version (a *paid* version) and reading it?  What if I want access and I dont want the 14-day time out?"

 

So here's the deal...We can do better here.  So we will.  Here's my commitment to the group here for freeware that ensures you always have a license that you can fall back on without need of internet connection *except when you first install it* (which after all, you would have had to get it in the first place):  in version 8.1 or 8.0.1 or whathaveyou (let's call it 'a future release'), if you install the SW and authenticate once, we'll remove the timer req.  So what I'm saying another way is, the freeware will require you to login the first time to get your license, but if you log out beyond that, you're good.  You got your entitlement and you can use it freely without connection.

 

Caveat:  to install an update, you will need to login.  The update server (which issues the new version...e.g. 8.1 or 8.2. or 8.0.1, etc.) requires that you login and get the update, but beyond that, logout.  Thus if you want to go off-grid in a mountain cabin somewhere, get your license at Starbucks (blagh! I understand they have 'free' wifi, but no frappucinos!  ...that stuff is bad for you) then get your license and go on your merry way up to the snow drenched peaks.  When you hear from the other mountaineers or your local yodeler that a new version of EAGLE is available...download, login, get your license, get your 'decaf double-pump vanilla non-fat latte macchiato' and head back up the slopes.

 

Point being, we can do the freeware better.  So we will.

 

Hope this is clear.  Let us know if you have questions!

 

Best regards,

 

Matt Berggren

Director - Autodesk

@technolomaniac

hackaday.io/matt

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Top Replies

  • COMPACT
    COMPACT over 8 years ago in reply to autodeskguest +4
    Not to worry, it's back to the Drawing board for me.
  • shabaz
    shabaz over 8 years ago +3
    Hi Matt, When will the EAGLE Maker version (or another solution for hobbiests) be v8-ready? I see the subscription for 'EAGLE Standard' and 'EAGLE Premium' are now available on the website, but not EAGLE…
  • albertovignati
    albertovignati over 8 years ago in reply to techsupport +3
    Il 21/02/2017 22:54, Ed Robledo ha scritto: The customers are the sole driving force to the improvements to EAGLE. Some of these 'wants' take time to be done right, that's the reason they were not done…
  • Joop14
    Joop14 over 8 years ago in reply to reverant

    Quote from reply #126: (technolomaniac aka Matt Berggren, the Director of

    Autodesk Circuits)

     

    Quote:

    ...it's not going subscription.

     

     

    http://www.eevblog.com/forum/eda/autodesk-buys-eagle/126/

     

    In six months, Autodesk can change completely their opinion. How reliable

    are they?

    What about all their statements here? What are they worth after six

    months?

     

     

    --

    http://www.eaglecentral.ca :: The original and best browser access to CadSoft EAGLE support forums.  Supported by EAGLE licenses purchased through us :: http://www.eaglelicenses.com

     

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  • rick_b
    rick_b over 8 years ago

    Matt Berggren:

     

    Please reply to this post.

     

    http://www.eaglecentral.ca/index.php/mv/msg/52902/168347/45b65797cd4e09a2431dcc38f062dd05/#msg_168347

     

    Rick

    --

    http://www.eaglecentral.ca :: The original and best browser access to CadSoft EAGLE support forums.  Supported by EAGLE licenses purchased through us :: http://www.eaglelicenses.com

     

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  • autodeskguest
    autodeskguest over 8 years ago in reply to autodeskguest

    On 19/01/17 19:29, Jorge Garcia wrote:

     

    Well, how have I been? Honestly, I can take it.

     

    Actually I wasn't referring to you because I've never needed support for

    Eagle (I've occasionally asked questions on this forum but got most of

    my answers from fellow users in the same way I would for open-source

    tools). Eric referred to an unnamed piece of software, I merely extended

    that to the general case from my experience of commercial software.

    Cadsoft have, in the past, behaved far more like an open-source team in

    that users' questions and opinions have been listened to and treated

    with respect. We can only hope that will continue.

     

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  • synfinatic
    synfinatic over 8 years ago

    So four things really concern me @technolomaniac

     

    1. You told everyone 6 months ago that Eagle wasn't going subscription... But I'm sure we're supposed to trust you now!  Because of your long history of accurately predicting the future?  image

     

    2. CadSoft already once pissed off its customers with a subscription licensing change and ~6 months after purchase by AutoDesk you pull the exact same crap.  Talk about not learning from past mistakes/listening to your customers! image

     

    3. All this talk about you'd never turn off the licensing server because that would upset your customers is hollow.  Realistically speaking we all know things change- AutoDesk is committed to PCB design today, but that may not be true in the future.  Things change (see #1).  Maybe AutoDesk ends up pissing off their customers (see #2) or you just can't innovate fast enough (hmmmm... I bet the Eagle software is full of technical debt being such an old code base- I bet it's not easy to work on).  What happens when a bunch of your customers leave and it no longer becomes worth developing and then maintaining the licensing servers?  Companies write off acquisitions far larger then CadSoft/Eagle and kill off projects/services all the time.  Please don't tell me to trust you.  If it's not in the contact/license then it's not enforceable. 

     

    4. The fact that you've announced this change and haven't apparently thought everything through.  Where is the Maker level?  I paid $169 for something and now you don't seem to have a path forward for me.  Again, a not so subtle hint that I don't matter as a customer.  Sure you'll announce something "soon", but obviously I wasn't a priority.  Now I have fear, uncertainty and doubt about AutoDesk/Eagle about the long term. image

     

    Seriously, I get it.  Selling a subscription provides AutoDesk a lot of advantages:

    1. Smooths out your revenue and makes it easier to predict your financials to the market, plan internally, etc

    2. Re-occuring revenue is awesome!

    3. Everyone else is doing it!

     

    Now maybe things will end up being better in the long run.  I dunno.  But right now I can tell you that things look really bad and you've lost a lot of good will with the Eagle community.   At this point, I'll have to re-evaluate KiCad and other alternatives before I sign up for the subscription, where as if you had just kept the same licensing model I most likely would of just paid the money without worrying about it.

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  • e14candies
    e14candies over 8 years ago in reply to synfinatic

    @Dave, it's not going subscription.  So there.  image  At this stage, that

    isn't anywhere on my roadmap.  Thought about it.  Decided against it.  Can

    I say that we will never in the life of any product do that?  No, of course

    not.  That would be at best unfair, at worst dishonest.  But I have so many

    things that are more pressing.  The point of my response - which I agree

    was unclear was - routing, real-time DRC, some improvements to polygon

    handling, better revision management and versioning, better BOM tools,

    better interface to manufacturing, some library improvements, interface to

    3D, etc are all good things to worry about today as they drive value for

    the users.  Those are the priority.  We'll shelve the other stuff until get

    to a place where that makes sense.  That was the point of that comment.

    I've got other stuff on my radar.  And I think that the shortlist today is

    pretty much a who's-who of what folks have been asking for for some time.

    Only now we have a combined development team that can really drive some of

    this home.  Thanks for calling me out...I sounded like a politician and it

    was totally fair.  image

    --

    http://www.eaglecentral.ca :: The original and best browser access to CadSoft EAGLE support forums.  Supported by EAGLE licenses purchased through us :: http://www.eaglelicenses.com

     

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  • rbtx99
    rbtx99 over 8 years ago

    Matt Berggren,

    for a director of Autodesk you certainly don't seem to have understood what your company has purchased. I am sure you have many corporate customers but EAGLE seems to have widespread use in small entrepreneurial companies that run on small budgets. It's not that we don't have $500 a year to spend on subscription but there are many other more important things to spend the $500 on. Your subscription licensing will certainly kill a big part of that side of your business and I can tell you, unlike corporations we are a lot more flexible in changing our preferred software tools.

     

    When Microsoft changed to subscription model for MS Office we changed to Open Office. It took me a few weeks to find my way around some of the advanced functions in the spreadsheet but now we won't even think of looking back. I have the feeling we will be doing the same with EAGLE and KiCAD. It is a learning curve for sure, but it is ahead on EAGLE in many aspects and it is receiving massive support from CERN and other research projects. It is fast becoming the science community standard and whilst some people like Jorge Garcia above may look down on it I know people at STFC where I used to work that design satellite electronics with KiCAD.

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  • e14candies
    e14candies over 8 years ago in reply to rbtx99

     

    What's the new feature... Hmmm...sounds familiar? now pay a subscription

    for it until it works or never does.

     

    Thank you for using EAGLE and participating on our forums.  I am really

    sorry that at this time the BGA Router is not working as expected.  I have

    contacted the developers and made a note on their thread.  I am not able to

    provide you a timeline, but I can assure you that they are currently

    working on it.

    ===================================

    Re: Where has the ULP library gone? 

    ...

    01-19-2017 09:53 AM in reply to: talon2000

    Hello

     

    That part of the site is still not working properly. We hope to have it

    working in the next few days.

    Sorry about the inconvenience

     

    yes, working on it

    --

    EAGLE support forums at http://www.eaglecentral.ca :: Where the EAGLE community meets.

     

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  • lynxofsausage
    lynxofsausage over 8 years ago

    1st)  PLEASE stop comparing or referring to the Microsoft and Adobe subscription models.  I'm a subscriber of both.  I pay $100/year to Microsoft for 5 of their most popular and useful products (+ some cloud services) for licenses to run them on up to 5 concurrent machines.  I pay $600/year to Adobe for their ENTIRE product catalog with licenses for 2 concurrent machines.  Autodesk wants to charge $500/year for JUST Eagle for, I believe, 2 machines though the way you request a second home license and the terms of use are clearly not transparent and quite frankly vague .  These are apples verses alien devil fruit comparisons.  Please stop.

     

    2nd) As other have pointed out, with the introduction of 7.0, CADSoft tried the tethered license server authentication method and users revolted.  I don't see the addition of a subscription pricing model sugar-coating that pill any.

     

    3rd) Just from a historical personal record of payments to CADSoft as a professional license owner since version 5.x, AutoDesk is now asking me to double my annual cost of ownership.  Potentially they are asking me to quadruple my cost of ownership if you consider I use Eagle today on my office computer, home computer, and field laptop.  I didn't initially upgrade to Eagle 7.x because of the 2 machine limit.  This is a real deal breaker for me.

     

    4th) Lastly CADSoft has never polled my feature interest for road-map input.  I never use any of the 7.x new features.  I don't consider any of the new features of 8.x worthy of a significant investment.  Add a parallel matched length group auto-router or any real simulation tools and my pocket book is wide open.  From my perspective, CADsoft has been very misaligned with me as a consumer.  AutoDesk is moving in the wrong direction.

     

    Time to swallow the KiCAD pill...

     

    R.I.P.

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  • autodeskguest
    autodeskguest over 8 years ago in reply to autodeskguest

    Jorge Garcia schrieb:

     

    I would encourage everyone who sees subscription and says "I'm out" to

    give it a try and then form an opinion, right now most of these posts

    just seem to be reactionary.

     

    You still miss the point, completely.

     

    Being able to work on my own data, without any "online" permission from

    anyone, with a software that I own, is essential to me (and obviously

    many others) and not open for discussion in any way.

     

    I simply won't rent software.

     

    Tilmann

     

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  • KE5FX
    KE5FX over 8 years ago in reply to autodeskguest

    On 1/19/2017 9:06 AM, Jorge Garcia wrote:

    If I had a business, I don't think I would be comfortable with that. I

    would want to know that if I have a question or problem there is someone

    I can reach out to and get a quick response.

     

     

    What you've done here is create a massive incentive for someone to start

    a business doing the same thing for KiCAD that Red Hat does for Linux.

     

    -- john, KE5FX

     

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