EAGLE License Recommendat ion

Am 03.02.2017 um 03:25 schrieb Matt Berggren:

we're not gong back to the old "maintenance model"

+so we wont issue a perpetual license

And we knew we'd lose some users with the change.

It's not the end of EAGLE, just the end of a licensing model

If the model isn't right for you at that time, then we'd hope to part

as friends and you feel like EAGLE was a great stop along the way.

Well, these statements should clarify Autodesk's position and we all can

stop this obviously fruitless licensing discussion and start evaluating

the alternatives.

No, this model isn't right for me, and so we part now, with quite some

pain.  Not really as friends, since I did buy, use and like Eagle for 26

years in three companies and Autodesk/Matt will be the one who killed it

for me.

My thanks for those years and my sympathy to the remaining Cadsoft

people!  (I gather that several have left already.)

Farewell — Hans

Hi Justyn --

Thanks for the post.  As I noted in another reply, I cant really take ownership of what happened before our time, however since the acq we've released 2 'point' releases and a new version, so we are trending in the right direction (in 6 months while learning a new code base, build tools, workflow, integrating back end business processes, etc...all the same group involved at every level).  We'd added ECAD<>MCAD support (for free...ie not a paid add-on), better export to mfg, routing improvements (interactive and auto), design reuse with Design Blocks, wiring improvements, etc. So we are moving fast, at the price of a good night's sleep, to be sure.  But it's all happening.  In fact, the only complaints we've heard so far are wrt to licensing. 

To that end, we're not gong back to the old "maintenance model" that other tools use, so we wont issue a perpetual license against a subscription like James discussed.  I know this sounds like a healthy compromise to some, but it doesn't fit the model that ensures we keep improving the tools at this pace.  Did we know we would meet with resistance?  Of course.  And we knew we'd lose some users with the change.  But this has occurred across the whole of Autodesk whilst building a stable community who have adopted the new model, once we starting putting up features that made them more productive. 

We may have moved to subs faster than anyone (even I) anticipated - and we may have opened an old wound with the Flexera licensing that EAGLE had in the past - but this again is something we'd agreed to push when it made the most sense (with the major release version).  It's not the end of EAGLE, just the end of a licensing model that is steadily going away. 

If you dont feel comfortable moving at this time, we totally get it.  Wait a while, see what we do, tell us what you want to see most in terms of features and functionality and then make your decision based on whether we've delivered what we say we're going to deliver.  If the model isn't right for you at that time, then we'd hope to part as friends and you feel like EAGLE was a great stop along the way. 

Best regards,

Matt

Hi Mark

Thanks for the honest email and I can appreciate you want to hold off.  This is ok.  We are ok with this.  I will say that the 50% off promo for upgrades (the EAGLE50 promo code) will expire 6 mos from launch.  However I would expect a lot of progress by then to reassure you that we're not just blowing smoke.  FWIW, if you bought in december, you should contact the sales team at Autodesk on the eagle site and ask for a refund and rebill.  We can issue you a license of 7.7 but ensure you have the upgrade, so you can move across whenever you want.  That way you get the best of both worlds and you're not feeling like you paid twice for one item so close together.

Hope that helps.

Best regards,

Matt

When someone has posts lacking detail beyond the snarky "we hate you" bent, is that trolling?  Yup.  But it's incited a more meaningful, actionable reply so let's upack this a bit more and I promise it ends on a high note...

Autodesk isn't Premier Farnell.  We didn't have a hand in anything done prior to the acquisition (7.5, 7.0, 6.1, whathaveyou...) and our intent post acq is a good one.  We are improving routing, improving reuse, improving hierarchy, adding true ECAD<>MCAD support, better file handling, revision management, library tools, etc.  This is coming with subscription.  If you need these tools, you are welcome to subscribe. 

Perpetual licensing is not our business model moving forward and version 8 aligns with that model, perhaps a little sooner than any of us expected.  But we weren't coy here.  We said it may come and it did.  The cost is consistent with the previous license price and in many cases, the TCO is in fact lower.  I wont debate this point and if the value of EAGLE's capabilities we're adding doesn't eclipse the need to subscribe, then perhaps we've failed (i.e. we didnt deliver) or perhaps the product isn't what's best for you.  Believe me, I get that.

WRT to nag-ware, ad-ware, etc; we removed that ad ware post acq.  We also added a free export to MCAD (not an additional service), a better interface to mfg, the first major pass at design reuse, improvements in routing, better visualization of missed connections in schematic, renamed a wire a line (like it should have been for 26 years), cleaned up a number of selection issues including modal versus non-modal behavior, etc.  This is all something you'd find in the tool (free or paid) were you to open it.  In fact, much was added in 7.7.

So in fact, we are making good on our promises and the notion of EAGLE as a cash-cow is a mischaracterization that anyone without knowledge of the business could be forgiven for making. 

I would likewise argue that it isn't about "customer perception" at all as you've stated.  It's about customer success in using your tool.  If you build a better tool, able to do more, which makes them more effective and ensures they get to see their kid's little league game on the weekends or gets them home in time for dinner with their spouse, then you win.  If I build a tool only to serve perception, that's a slippery slope toward vaporware. 

We need to build features that make design better, more efficient and less error prone.  This is why we said "Routing!" when we first started working on the tool.  Obstacle avoidance, better rules, better trace handling, push and shove (driven by those rules), are all in the cards.  When will we deliver on those?  As soon as we humanly can.   The ECAD<>MCAD tools are improving as well.  This is a path toward total integration.  (As I said, we didn't call the product Fusion for nothing so if I'm leaking anything by sharing this, then I guess we didn't do a great job of hiding this in the first place!) 

If you dont need any of this, then I appreciate that you may not be our target customer.  And that's ok.  They can't all be zingers!  And there's no captive audiences here.  But if it's cool to you to see EAGLE mature to compete on the same footing as the big boys, but perhaps leaner, cleaner & less expensive; then let's discuss priorities around this and make sure we get to the right finish line(s) first.

We are putting our money where our mouth is and we welcome you to try it out and come along for the ride.  I'd be super happy if in 6 months you said: "look at that!  I never knew it'd be able to do that!".   For us, that's the only measure of a win.  That and making it affordable.  And we have started down the path toward both.  Of course, you're forgiven if you feel like we're asking you to bet on something which isn't fully baked.  We get that.  Trust me, I get that.  But it'll happen.  And when it does...it'll be glorious and you'll be proud to have a license. 

Best regards,

Matt

p.s. and truly, thanks for a proper reply with some meat on it.  I need something more to reply to or I too, like any other human, show my humanity.

Let's take a little stroll down memory lane shall we?

https://www.element14.com/community/message/166900/l/eagle-version-75-released#166900

There were several sound arguments made, several times, about half implemented features, the lack of resources and introducing a nice nag screen which should have been an absolute no-go in many people's opinions. not only in this little thread... just chose this one to show you what i think is flawed reasoning from your side.

you did what you wanted anyway and really... the only answers were, "well, we did it this way. it's the best we could and we think we're right"

i'm reading the same here. i read well defined arguments, presented in a very nice and clear matter. and the nice answer you have to that is generally "we're going this way anyway"

It may be a fact that many users didn't upgrade to version 7, you may blindly use that fact to shove a subscription down peoples throat which is more expensive than you claimed it to be.

You could also ask yourself: Where did we go wrong in version 7 that people don't use it? i also find it very hard to believe you don't know the reasoning you use is not entirely true.

does this discussion have a point? I just honestly said: "I believe not because they'll (you) do what they (you) want anyway". True, the packaging of that message is not nice, but the message itself is perfectly clear.

We can have a long discussion about the subject "did eagle go down the drain?". For me... it did. Ad- nag- or crippleware is just morally not done. Especially if you claim to be low on resources and next set a developer to create adware and have the guts to present this as a feature.

There are several best practices. itil, bisl, lean, whichever you choose...

one thing they all agree on is the following point: it's all about customer perception. that perception wasn't great, it sure didn't get any better.

if that's trolling, then fine. you may call me a troll. it does not change my belief that you have effectively killed eagle, nor that you'll do as you please anyway.

James Morrison wrote on Wed, 01 February 2017 20:41

If someone purchases a two-year license they get a perpetual license.

When their two-years are up, if they continue to subscribe (monthly) they

continue to get updates and support.  If they choose to not subscribe

then the lose both updates and support but the version of EAGLE that was

licensed when they discontinued the subscription will work as a perpetual

license.

Sorry to send another reply, but I would tweak this.

I would add some sort of one-off premium on top of the 2-year subscription

cost for a perpetual license. This would create a strong incentive to keep

the subscription going after two years (with continuing access to the

perpetual license) rather than letting it lapse, because otherwise the

premium would need to be paid again once you wanted to restart.

For this (or any option) to be worthwhile there would need to be some

method of offline installation, of course.

--

EAGLE support forums at http://www.eaglecentral.ca :: Where the EAGLE community meets.

technolomaniac wrote on Tue, 31 January 2017 00:54

What motivated the acquisition were really two things: 1) the core

capabilities on which we could build what we're endeavoring to build and

2) the community. Now of course the latter (at least on public forums)

probably appears frustrated at the moment  I assure you, it stresses me

out too (nobody is losing more sleep than me over the change!)  but truth

be told, the vast majority of EAGLE users we not inclined to upgrade to

the latest and greatest version. Why? Perhaps because they never felt

they were getting enough value, version to version, for this to make

sense?  Regardless of the reason, the bulk of EAGLE users are on v5 or

v6...Not v7.  Whether we like it or not, I have to operate on the facts.

Matt,

This argument that not enough users had upgraded to v7 is hugely

frustrating to hear.

Version 7 offered incredibly poor incentive to upgrade for existing users.

I mean seriously, so little. And I say this as someone who did upgrade and

has been using it!

Given that most designs don't realistically allow use of the full

autorouter and that the hierarchical design feature was far too basic and

restrictive to offer much (again, as someone who determinedly uses this

feature!) why exactly would people upgrade to v7?

You've spoken about the exciting features you're planning to add to Eagle

moving forward - if they're truly worthwhile, people will upgrade for them

regardless of whether or not they're on subscription.

technolomaniac wrote on Tue, 31 January 2017 00:54

we are not the evil overlords come down to squeeze every last cent out

of EAGLE's most loyal users (it was my decision to make, and I wasn't

focused on the incremental revenue).

This is very interesting to hear, since I assumed that it was a decision

forced on you by Autodesk. Clearly not.

Matt, I'd really like to hear a response to James Morrsion's proposal that

a perpetual license be available in some form in addition to subscription.

I mean, I'm trying to give you money here, and you're making it impossible.

It's crazy.

--

EAGLE support forums at http://www.eaglecentral.ca :: Where the EAGLE community meets.

James Morrison wrote on Wed, 01 February 2017 20:41

If someone purchases a two-year license they get a perpetual license.

When their two-years are up, if they continue to subscribe (monthly) they

continue to get updates and support.  If they choose to not subscribe

then the lose both updates and support but the version of EAGLE that was

licensed when they discontinued the subscription will work as a perpetual

license.

I would go for this.

--

EAGLE support forums at http://www.eaglecentral.ca :: Where the EAGLE community meets.

Matt

Thank you for your post, helping to explain some of the thoughts going on at Autodesk right now.

I have a primary job, where my employer uses Altium, and I use that for most of the design work that I do.   I also do some work on the side for a small business, and we have used Eagle for several years.   For a long time, I had the licence that allowed me to work on 4 layer, 6x4 boards, but occasionally I need to work on larger boards (but never more than 4 layers).   In December 2016 I  bought the full version of Eagle, so I have the perpetual license for the Pro version.  The next month, everything changed.

I am excited about the concept of having an integrated MECHANICAL/Electrical CAD system, and I hope that this becomes a reality.   It would make the increased cost of the system worthwhile.  

If I understand the proposed licensing scheme, I will be able to subscribe to the smaller system for 4x6 boards, and use that, and if I need to work on a larger board, I rent the professional version for the duration of that job - 2 or 3 months, then go back to the lower cost licence.   So long as 10 years down the road I will be able to view the files, generate gerbers and drill files etc, I think that I can live with that.

That said, I don't think that I will jump into V8 until the dust has settled - perhaps a couple of years.

Mark

technolomaniac wrote on Tue, 31 January 2017 05:54

Hi James, et. Al --

 

I've sent a number of variations of this email over the last few days,

so let me share it and solicit people's feedback.  This is some of what

we're doing to make this model a bit more user-friendly and I want to be

clear, there is an eagerness to get this right, whilst still ensuring we

hit our objectives.  Constructive comments are welcome.

 

Firstly, thank you for your email and insights; it's clear that you've

thought deeply about this and I appreciate your honest, unfiltered

feedback. I've watched and responded on the various forums where I felt

it might help but the response means we can't hit every post,

unfortunately.

 

The subscription debate is a tough one for sure, and one we didn't take

lightly, I can assure you. We toiled for some time along with the support

team and the development group to decide just when to make the move. To

be sure, it doesn't sit well right now with some folks, however let me

try and give you some context for "why?" we made the decision and what

capabilities the tools already provides (or we're working on) to ensure

you have lasting SW to work with yourdata...

 

Firstly, from the outset we knew we've wanted to integrate EAGLE's

capabilities with MCAD, MFG, Cutting (CAM), etc to provide something far

in excess of any 'ECAD<>MCAD' solution on the market. After all, this is

a deep part of Autodesk's history and the value we bring to the table,

and the company has been centered around 3D CAD, even when done in 2D

(for example Autocad) for 25+ years. Thus, we have been looking long and

hard at what it takes to build 'whole products' and this acquisition of

an electronics solution marks just the beginning of a process that'll

take us in some wild directions. That being said, we are working on this

and will continue, hybridizing EAGLE's schematic and PCB capabilities

with an MCAD + MFG workflow that we hope will prove second-to-none.

 

That being said, all of our tools are subscription and with me having

been a relatively new addition to Autodesk (I ran product at Supplyframe

which owns Hackaday and 15 years w/Altium before that), this was a

decision that was made before my time... Still, I support it. (Not just

being a lemming, I support this 100%.) The argument / debate is largely

about making tools available if/when you need them and providing a

continuous stream of updates / value that's achievable when you

consistent revenue stream to fund R&D. It's a curious model for ECAD, to

be sure, however it doesn't come without us taking a huge hit in those

first few years!  (We lose substantial annual revenue as we move

customers over, as you might imagine.) 

 

Now to be sure, subscription has the potential for revenue 'upside',

but I want to be 100% clear: even if I doubled EAGLE's revenue tomorrow,

I wouldn't move the Autodesk needle even ½ of 1%. At a ~$17B market cap,

EAGLE's revenue is not why we acquired it and we are not the evil

overlords come down to squeeze every last cent out of EAGLE's most loyal

users (it was my decision to make, and I wasn't focused on the

incremental revenue).

 

What motivated the acquisition were really two things: 1) the core

capabilities on which we could build what we're endeavoring to build and

2) the community. Now of course the latter (at least on public forums)

probably appears frustrated at the moment  I assure you, it stresses me

out too (nobody is losing more sleep than me over the change!)  but truth

be told, the vast majority of EAGLE users we not inclined to upgrade to

the latest and greatest version. Why? Perhaps because they never felt

they were getting enough value, version to version, for this to make

sense?  Regardless of the reason, the bulk of EAGLE users are on v5 or

v6...Not v7.  Whether we like it or not, I have to operate on the facts.

 

So with all of that in mind, we want a license model which aligns to

the larger Autodesk so we can integrate EAGLE (in a hard way...not a

"passing files back and forth" way) into Autodesk's larger platform,

which is both subscription and thriving.  So the question was: when to

rip off the band aid? And what could we do to make it hurt a little

less.

 

With regard to that last item, here's what we've settled on thus far

for ensuring you have legacy SW and versions and data available to you:

 

1) The free version shouldn't expire and will only require a connection

the first time you open it.

2) The free version should open files of any size and layer count and

allow you to place NEW objects anywhere within the extents of the free

version.

3) The free version should allow you to output files (gerber, PDF,

NCDrill, etc) of any size or layer count, regardless of the license you

have.

4) Any paid license should automatically roll over to the free version

if/when your license lapses.  (working on this)

5) Every version of the free software will be made available for

download outside of the normal update system.

6) We will not own your data and will continue to publish an XML file +

DTD for all eagle file types.

7) We will expand the EAGLE API (coming soon-ish) to ensure users have

access to EAGLE's datamodel via Javascript, Node, etc., to ensure a pipe

out of EAGLE is easy to implement.

8) We will continue to make all legacy and new versions available for

download.

9) We will provide you a license of an earlier, Cadsoft version of

EAGLE with the purchase of subscription (this is as-is, with no support

implied...it will match your current tier...some work to make sure we get

this right just yet, but it's coming).

10). We'll look to build an exporter to the legacy version 6 format and

ensure, for the first time, backwards compatibility.

 

I know that's a mouthful but I wanted to be sure and stress that we're

trying really hard to make this work in a way that works for the user. My

background is as an engineer and I live in this community in a real way

(not as some passive marketing ***), thus I'm hoping that having

built consumer products, I'm covering many of the bases with this

strategy.  (And believe me it hurts when my friends call me out and tell

me I'm squeezing them or locking away their data or that I just dont

"get" it.)  Still, I'm sure there'll be gaps. Some are unavoidable, some

perhaps just oversights on our part.

 

What I'd love is if you all could, in a constructive way, look thru

that list and let me know whether you think there's more than you already

knew today (which means I needed to get onto the forums and discuss this

in greater detail) and also, what you think about some of these items as

a way forward (although perhaps suboptimal...are they meaningful?).

 

I really DO value your feedback and I can assure you, I'm working my

tail off to make sure we demonstrate value to users like yourself and

others who have shown such an obvious passion for the product. It's not

easy to be parsimonious and also explain the "whole" view, so this is an

email I may I have sent in various forms to different people and it's all

changed a little each time as I go thru it, just to ensure I make the

salient points.

 

I didn't want to send a half-hearted reply widely for fear I end up

under the microscope with every troll in Trollville pushing their agenda

with my words.   But this is where we're at and I can tell you, that we

will continue with subscription as we move forward, though we are making

attempts to be concessionary and meet the community half way.

Thanks Matt,  I appreciate the full response.  It's obviously nuanced with

a lot of considerations on many sides.

And sorry for the delay.  I've been a bit busy, plus I wanted to make sure

that I digested what you were trying to say.

No one is saying that EAGLE shouldn't charge money for using the software,

we all recognize the link that there should be between revenue and future

development.  However, this is now the second major revision that has been

released where the large majority of design effort has been into licensing

schemes that add zero value to the user.  Sure, they may have import to

the Farnell/Autodesk.  But the company exists to serve its customers, not

the other way around.

I'm not interested in "access to EAGLE's datamodel via Javascript, Node,

etc, ...".  Maybe others are and maybe this is the piping you need to

integrate with your MCAD tools in Autodesk.  But this is piping, not

features.

Instead of going through your response line by line, let me enumerate some

requirements for professional use of EAGLE and then I'll see how your

suggestion stacks up.  These are situations that I don't think were

addressed before:

A. Work with Multiple Versions of EAGLE at the Same Time

This is an absolute must for a design bureau:  The main issues here:

1) license requirements that a user delete previous versions of EAGLE

within a certain number of days

2) being able to service customers with various versions of EAGLE

And for background, it must be understood that CAD professionals don't just

upgrade their tools for the latest version without a lot of consideration

and testing.  While new versions may mean new functionality, they also are

a risk for new bugs.  And unknown bugs cost professionals money and time

when boards don't come in and work like they are supposed to.

That goes for the version that a design bureau would use internally.  It

also goes applies to clients, who often go through their own internal

version of the same decision.  Clients can also have other tools and

processes built around particular versions of EAGLE and just jumping to a

new version of EAGLE can sometimes break those.

ANALYSIS:

I don't see anything in your response that addresses the license terms that

we need to delete older versions of EAGLE.  You have stated in another post

that this wouldn't effect any versions before V8 (though I'm not sure that

is true since Autodesk bought CadSoft and likely acquired all their assets

and liabilities too, so while you say it doesn't apply I'm not sure

Autodesk lawyers would agree, especially when Autodesk accountants discover

how many licenses this might apply to if no one upgrades to V8).

The ability to save out in older formats is helpful and a feature I have

advocated for over a decade.

B. Guarantee Being Able to Edit My Data in Native Version of EAGLE a Decade

or Two in the Future

If I have to make a change to a real system in the future I need to be able

to do it with the exact version of EAGLE that it was made with e.g. V6.5,

V8.1, etc.

If I have to load the data into a different version of EAGLE then we have

the introduction of potential sources of error:

1) bug in converting data file from old version to new version

2) bug in new program effecting any part of the design (polygons fill

differently, ends of copper wires have different shapes, more/less

resolution on unit conversion, ....).

3) but in new program in generating output files

When you're dealing with a very old design, there is a lot of detail that

you no longer have in the short-term memory.  So you want to make sure that

only what you intend to change changes.  Using a different version of

software introduces other variables and the more variables you have the

more work it is to do this and to verify the design.  And the more

time/cost it takes to do the job.

And remember, we design safety critical systems with EAGLE.  This is no

toy, it is used for Professional work.  So this needs to be taken

seriously.

ANALYSIS:

I don't see anything in your statement that addresses this directly.  We

have the issue of deleting previous versions along with reliance on

internet connection to Autodesk servers that have no obligations to

continue to operate.

C. Running EAGLE No Matter What Externally Goes Wrong

This is basically the issue around EAGLE stopping to work after 14 days if

it can't call home.  Here is a list of things that could keep me from being

able to use EAGLE:

copper communication line gets cut to my house, I live in the country,

there aren't many other optionsDDOS attack on my ISP, internet is

downcorporate firewall blocks EAGLEAutodesk decides that EAGLE isn't

profitable and maintaining server is losing money, so they shut it downmy

country (say China) decides that my packets can't leave country to

Autodesk's serversI'm in a location with no internet access (secure

facility, wilderness, ...)....

Some of the things above could be temporary, but not necessarily. The point

is, I have to be able to work no matter what happens.  There are simply too

many things that can go wrong and cut me off from using EAGLE V8

currently.

ANALYSIS:  I don't see anything here that addresses this directly.  I

suppose being able to save out in old version and then load it up could

work.  But V8 has already created a structure that isn't backward

compatible with the reusable modules, and I expect more of this in the

future.  So there doesn't seem to be any way you can guarantee that this

method would be error-free and wouldn't just end up causing me more work.

My experience with this is that it might work for the most simple case, but

boards I design are rarely the simple case.

You've also suggesting to maintain the persistent license model for (older

versions of) EAGLE in PARALLEL with the new subscription model!  I thought

the old system was inefficient and cost lots of support turmoil--now you

have all of that and the subscription issues.

D. Working within the Legal License Constraints

Any professional design house wants to be using legally licensed software.

At least around here, the cost of getting caught with pirated software is

high.  There are many reasons for wanting to be legit, having support being

probably number one on that list.

This argument that you can somehow fall back to the free, non-commercial

licence in the future is non-sense.  By saying that, you are essentially

condoning using EAGLE outside of the legal terms.  If someone is going to

do that (on your recommendation) then they might as well just crack EAGLE

Ultimate and be done with it.  Both are outside of using EAGLE according

the license.  So why pay ever.

This is a nonsense argument and I'm surprised it hasn't been detected by

your team of lawyers.

ANALYSIS:

This is a fail.

The suggestion to use the Free, non-commercial license is laughable for any

business.  You are asking us to use your software illegally.

CONCLUSION:

I don't see anything here that allows a professional organisation any sort

of comfort with the licensing model.  There have been some small steps made

but the root problems are still in place.

Autodesk has made the same mistake that Farnell did:  They pushed out a

major licensing change without actually asking the people who would have to

pay for it.

I have used EAGLE for 2 decades and distributed EAGLE for one decade, so I

know the market.  Would it really have hurt Autodesk to reach out to a few

of us in the EAGLE community to consult to make sure you got it right?  Ed

and Jorge could have given you 5-10 contacts right off the top of their

heads.  I learned about Farnell's license attempt the day it came out (even

as a distributor I didn't get any advanced notice) and I told them that day

that it was going to be a fail.  At least Farnell had the sense to back

down and revert.

I'm not saying that Autodesk has to revert to exactly the way things

were.  BUT THE ISSUES ABOVE ARE REAL and no amount of hand waving or "trust

us" is going to make them go away.  Many, many businesses that make money

using EAGLE are not going to commit to this sort of scheme.

New Proposal

You didn't specifically address why my initial proposal wouldn't work.

Having some time to contemplate, I realize one deficiency from Autodesk's

point of view:  With my previous recommendation, one could purchase a one

month subscription, terminate the subscription, and then get lifetime use

of that software forever.  So obviously that is likely not looked upon

favourably by Autodesk, though I'd wish they'd just come out and say that.

If someone purchases a two-year license they get a perpetual license.  When

their two-years are up, if they continue to subscribe (monthly) they

continue to get updates and support.  If they choose to not subscribe then

the lose both updates and support but the version of EAGLE that was

licensed when they discontinued the subscription will work as a perpetual

license.

Not being connected to the internet would be considered the same thing as

not subscribing.  So for the first 2 years you would not need to connect

and EAGLE would continue to work fine.  After the two years, if

subscription is dropped then the perpetual license kicks in, no need to

connect then either.  You would only need to connect to update and reset

the latest version of EAGLE that your perpetual license would pertain to.

This is good for Autodesk:

- 24 month subscription is better than 1 month -- guaranteed money

- 24 months to get enough new functionality to convince customer to go to

monthly subscription

(As an aside, please don't tell me how monthly subscription money is better

than a lump sum.  If Autodesk can't figure out how to take a lump sum in

one pocket and hand it out internally as if it was a subscription then

maybe they should just get out of business altogether.  Plus you get

interest on that money, so it's even better.)

This is good for customer

- guaranteed, native access to edit data forever with a legit license in

the native, specific version of EAGLE

- being able to walk away after 2 years means that Autodesk has to actually

work to convince you to shell out more money in the future (see last 3+

years where there really wasn't any particular reason to upgrade for most

people)

- it solves all the issues I outline above

You've already committed to a perpetual license in some cases, so this

proposal is the best of both worlds I think.  I don't think there is any

value in creating a system to license V7--that seems like wasted work.

Anyone who wants V7 already has it and new people aren't going to think

that is much of a value, especially as the functionality and compatibility

begins to separate.

I look forward to your response.  If this proposal isn't acceptable, I'd

like to hear why.  I think this is a great "half way" to address the

issues that Autodesk has stated and maintain a usable licensing scheme for

its customers.

Cheers,

James.

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James Morrison  ~~~  Stratford Digital

http://www.stratforddigital.ca

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EAGLE support forums at http://www.eaglecentral.ca :: Where the EAGLE community meets.