Eagle- How do I put a hole in my PCB?

On 1/10/20 01:10, Stephen Mann wrote:

This is likely a silly question, but I am asking anyone with more Eagle PCB experience than I, which would be just about anyone, how do I put a hole for a 4-40 screw into my PCB?

I tried placing a hole using the command HOLE 0.125 *

But the PCB manufacturer bounced the order because the holes were only 0.003mm.

You forgot the inches.  Your current grid is in mils (1/1000").  So when

you asked for a 0.125 hole, it gave you one that's 0.125 mils in diameter.

1. convert 0.125mil to mm.

    linux> units .125mil mm

• 0.003175

            / 314.96063

Try  HOLE 0.125" *+    You can use "in" for inches instead of the quote.

Take a look at https://littlemachineshop.com/Reference/tapdrill.php.

For a #4-40 screw, a close fit is 0.1160, a loose fit is 0.1285.  

INCHES, of course.

Joern,  The OP is referring to a standard screw size.  The "#4"

represents the screw diameter, the "40" refers the number of threads per

inch.  A #4-40 screw requires a 0.0820" (about 2mm) drill bit.

HTH,

    - Chuck

Am 13.01.2020 um 19:11 schrieb Chuck Huber:

On 1/10/20 01:10, Stephen Mann wrote:

This is likely a silly question, but I am asking anyone with more Eagle PCB experience than I, which would be just about anyone, how do I put a hole for a 4-40 screw into my PCB?

I tried placing a hole using the command HOLE 0.125 *

But the PCB manufacturer bounced the order because the holes were only 0.003mm.

 

You forgot the inches.  Your current grid is in mils (1/1000").  So when

you asked for a 0.125 hole, it gave you one that's 0.125 mils in diameter.

 

   

1. convert 0.125mil to mm.

    linux> units .125mil mm

            

• 0.003175

             / 314.96063

 

 

 

Try  HOLE 0.125" *+    You can use "in" for inches instead of the quote.

 

Take a look at https://littlemachineshop.com/Reference/tapdrill.php.

For a #4-40 screw, a close fit is 0.1160, a loose fit is 0.1285. INCHES,

of course.

 

Joern,  The OP is referring to a standard screw size.  The "#4"

represents the screw diameter, the "40" refers the number of threads per

inch.  A #4-40 screw requires a 0.0820" (about 2mm) drill bit.

 

HTH,

    - Chuck

Hi Chuck,

IMHO the Standard is mm nowerdays. IC manufactories using it and even NASA.

I could have checked or calculate it, but was 1. too lazy and 2. wanted

to kick the OP to use precise information

--

Mit freundlichen Grüßen / With best regards

Joern Paschedag

On 1/14/20 04:34, Joern Paschedag wrote:

 

Hi Chuck,

IMHO the Standard is mm nowerdays. IC manufactories using it and even

NASA.

I could have checked or calculate it, but was 1. too lazy and 2.

wanted to kick the OP to use precise information

 

Yeah... After I posted, by client updated the thread, which is when I

found out that Rob had answered the question hours earlier.

As far as standards go, it's good to hear that metric is fairly

pervasive in Europe.  It should be world wide.

Back in the late 70's, the US mounted a government mandated conversion. 

Actually, I don't think "mandated" is the right word - it was more of a

strong recommendation.  This effort is where we got the 2-liter Coke

bottles and the 0.8-liter water bottles.  The drink industry adopted it

well, but overall the effort failed miserably.  After that, the slow

learners running our government figured out that this conversion was

going to have to be done on a voluntary basis.

Metric IC packages remained on imperial units until surface mount took

off... mostly.  R's and C's are still referenced as 0603 or 0805 which

reference mils.  I am glad to see that these jelly beans are also being

referenced with their metric equivalents.  This divergence from metric

probably stems from the fact that resistors as small as 0402 were

available only to the military in the '50's.  At the time they were

classified - I don't know when they were declassified.  The textual

descriptions of R's and C's still contain the imperial sizes.  Eagle

libraries (as late as v7 contain) contain imperial sizes for these

components, further slowing the adoption of metric.

I truly wish we would standardize on a single system of units on a

world-wide basis.  There have been too many mishaps because of these

differences.  I believe in NASA's case, it was the loss of the Mars

Orbiter in 1999 wherein the engine manufacturer provided the thrust of

the engine in pounds of thrust, when NASA used the same number as

Newtons of thrust, that caused NASA to force all suppliers to publish

specifications in SI units.  NASA started using SI units since at least

1990, and 9 years later nobody bothered to verify the units.

The culinary industry hasn't even thought about it.  Every recipe my

wife has is measured in teaspoons, tablespoons, cups, pints, quarts,

degrees Farenheit...

Aviation: Altitude is still measured in feet (pretty much world wide)

while temperature is measured in degrees Celsius.  The thrust of a jet

engine is still measured in pounds instead of Newtons, and weight of an

aircraft is measured in pounds instead of kg.  U.S. Government published

charts show runway length in feet.  Charts published by a private

company (Jeppesen/Boeing) have both feet and meters.

But I digress.

While I agree with you about what /should/ be done, I disagree with the

extent of deployment, at least in the US.  Imperial units are still very

pervasive in the consumer markets.  Sciences are being taught in SI

units, so that will help the young understand just how long a meter is,

and what a kg feels like when it's picked up.

(BTW, I do have a 2 kg reference mass that I use for calibrating

scales.  And yes, it does weigh less closer to the equator (N = mg -

mv^2/r).  One must compensate for this based on latitude when calibrating.)

It will be nice when we reach such a status...  One set of tools in the

garage.

Best regards,

    - Chuck

Am 14.01.2020 um 16:17 schrieb Chuck Huber:

On 1/14/20 04:34, Joern Paschedag wrote:

 

Hi Chuck,

IMHO the Standard is mm nowerdays. IC manufactories using it and even

NASA.

I could have checked or calculate it, but was 1. too lazy and 2.

wanted to kick the OP to use precise information

 

 

Yeah... After I posted, by client updated the thread, which is when I

found out that Rob had answered the question hours earlier.

So what. No sweat

 

As far as standards go, it's good to hear that metric is fairly

pervasive in Europe.  It should be world wide.

 

Beleave me, I felt nearly unconsciousness when I heard (couple of years

ago) that the British changed to metric in TV, Documentation etc.

Back in the late 70's, the US mounted a government mandated conversion. 

Actually, I don't think "mandated" is the right word - it was more of a

strong recommendation.  This effort is where we got the 2-liter Coke

bottles and the 0.8-liter water bottles.  The drink industry adopted it

well, but overall the effort failed miserably. After that, the slow

learners running our government figured out that this conversion was

going to have to be done on a voluntary basis.

 

Metric IC packages remained on imperial units until surface mount took

off... mostly.  R's and C's are still referenced as 0603 or 0805 which

reference mils.  I am glad to see that these jelly beans are also being

referenced with their metric equivalents.  This divergence from metric

probably stems from the fact that resistors as small as 0402 were

available only to the military in the '50's. At the time they were

classified - I don't know when they were declassified.  The textual

descriptions of R's and C's still contain the imperial sizes.  Eagle

libraries (as late as v7 contain) contain imperial sizes for these

components, further slowing the adoption of metric.

 

As you know in Eagle it's no problem it will be converted automatic.

I truly wish we would standardize on a single system of units on a

world-wide basis.  There have been too many mishaps because of these

differences.  I believe in NASA's case, it was the loss of the Mars

Orbiter in 1999 wherein the engine manufacturer provided the thrust of

the engine in pounds of thrust, when NASA used the same number as

Newtons of thrust, that caused NASA to force all suppliers to publish

specifications in SI units.  NASA started using SI units since at least

1990, and 9 years later nobody bothered to verify the units.

 

That would be funny if the loss wouldn't be so sad

The culinary industry hasn't even thought about it.  Every recipe my

wife has is measured in teaspoons, tablespoons, cups, pints, quarts,

degrees Farenheit...

 

Aviation: Altitude is still measured in feet (pretty much world wide)

while temperature is measured in degrees Celsius.  The thrust of a jet

engine is still measured in pounds instead of Newtons, and weight of an

aircraft is measured in pounds instead of kg.  U.S. Government published

charts show runway length in feet.  Charts published by a private

company (Jeppesen/Boeing) have both feet and meters.

 

I had a pilot license and if I estimate an altitude I do it in feet

still today...

But I digress.

 

While I agree with you about what /should/ be done, I disagree with the

extent of deployment, at least in the US.  Imperial units are still very

pervasive in the consumer markets.  Sciences are being taught in SI

units, so that will help the young understand just how long a meter is,

and what a kg feels like when it's picked up.

 

(BTW, I do have a 2 kg reference mass that I use for calibrating

scales.  And yes, it does weigh less closer to the equator (N = mg -

mv^2/r).  One must compensate for this based on latitude when calibrating.)

 

Well that depends on the  tolerances one allows...

It will be nice when we reach such a status...  One set of tools in the

garage.

 

Best regards,

    - Chuck

 

Was verrrry nice to hear from you

--

Mit freundlichen Grüßen / With best regards

Joern Paschedag

OP here.

Back in the 70's I was installing brain scanners in hospitals around the US. The company was all metric which I really learned to love. (Metric, not the company).

While I would love to be all metric here, American 4-40 screws are a fraction of the price for 3mm screws.  In our common home improvement stores a package of ten 3mmx10mm machine screws cost as much as fifty #4-40 screws.  If I go to a hardware store, the differential is even larger.  I did buy some metric hardware online, but the shipping cost wiped out any savings. Worse, 3mm is the smallest they stock.

So, yes, my question was quite precise, even if our Country's measurements aren't.

And in reply to the anonymous poster who said: "The built-in help is quite good on most of this, as is the PDF manual."

Remember, what is obvious to you may be someone else's mystery.

The built-in help does not tell me that the unit is my grid units, or that I can put the units in my hole command.

The only example is ambiguous: "

HOLE 0.20 •

If the actual unit is "inch", the hole will have a diameter of 0.20 inch. "

Until this thread, I did not know that the "actual unit" was the grid size. I am still learning.

The PDF manual has a single line to explain the hole command: "Define a mounting hole (not plated-through).", but no examples that I could find.

But, I really do appreciate the prompt suggestions.

Steve

Am 14.01.2020 um 21:03 schrieb Stephen Mann:

OP here.

Back in the 70's I was installing brain scanners in hospitals around the US. The company was all metric which I really learned to love. (Metric, not the company).

 

While I would love to be all metric here, American 4-40 screws are a fraction of the price for 3mm screws.  In our common home improvement stores a package of ten 3mmx10mm machine screws cost as much as fifty #4-40 screws.  If I go to a hardware store, the differential is even larger.  I did buy some metric hardware online, but the shipping cost wiped out any savings. Worse, 3mm is the smallest they stock.

 

So, yes, my question was quite precise, even if our Country's measurements aren't.

 

In my eyes it was not. If  there is no description it is just a number

of nothing (even if it is well known in a special job).

A similar thing (in articles and forums i.e.) is the use of

abbreviations without explaining what is meant.

In some earlier days it said:"Massachusetts Institute of Technology"

with the abbreviation (MIT) .

During the article the abbreviation was used but everybody knew what was

meant.

Nowadays some just write the abbreviation alone  but check out for what

MIT alone may stand also.

Here are your own words:

"Remember, what is obvious to you may be someone else's mystery".

And in reply to the anonymous poster who said: "The built-in help is quite good on most of this, as is the PDF manual."

There are no anonymous posters. The problem is the element14 interface

with the newsreader. Appendages and other things  are not transmitted.

Remember, what is obvious to you may be someone else's mystery.

 

The built-in help does not tell me that the unit is my grid units, or that I can put the units in my hole command.

The only example is ambiguous: "

HOLE 0.20 •

If the actual unit is "inch", the hole will have a diameter of 0.20 inch. "

Until this thread, I did not know that the "actual unit" was the grid size. I am still learning.

The PDF manual has a single line to explain the hole command: "Define a mounting hole (not plated-through).", but no examples that I could find.

 

But, I really do appreciate the prompt suggestions.

 

Steve

 

--

To view any images and attachments in this post, visit:

https://www.element14.com/community/message/287201

 

Don't worry if you don't find the answer in the "Help". The eagle

community is always willing to help.

--

Mit freundlichen Grüßen / With best regards

Joern Paschedag

Am 14.01.2020 um 21:03 schrieb Stephen Mann:

If the actual unit is "inch", the hole will have a diameter of 0.20 inch. "

Until this thread, I did not know that the "actual unit" was the grid size.

That's a bit of a translation problem in the documentation (remember

EAGLE is a German product).

In the German version of the manual this sentence is

'Falls die eingestellte Maßeinheit "Inch" ist, hat das Hole einen

Durchmesser von 0.20 Zoll.'

which I would translate to

'If the unit is currently set to "inch", the hole will have a diameter

of 0.20 inch.'

In German there is a word "aktuell", which sounds similar to "actual",

but most of the times translates to "current"/"currently" (false friend).

HTH

Markus

Am 14.01.2020 um 21:03 schrieb Stephen Mann:

If the actual unit is "inch", the hole will have a diameter of 0.20 inch. "

Until this thread, I did not know that the "actual unit" was the grid size.

That's a bit of a translation problem in the documentation (remember

EAGLE is a German product).

In the German version of the manual this sentence is

'Falls die eingestellte Maßeinheit "Inch" ist, hat das Hole einen

Durchmesser von 0.20 Zoll.'

which I would translate to

'If the unit is currently set to "inch", the hole will have a diameter

of 0.20 inch.'

In German there is a word "aktuell", which sounds similar to "actual",

but most of the times translates to "current"/"currently" (false friend).

HTH

Markus

autodeskguest  wrote:

 

That's a bit of a translation problem in the documentation (remember

EAGLE is a German product).

Markus

 

Really?  The About page says Eagle by Autodesk, and to open Eagle, I log on to an Autodesk account.  Autodesk is based in San Rafael, California.

But, growing up in this moronic Imperial system of inches and pounds, a 4-40 screw is remarkably normal and generally needs no further definition. To be honest, I still don't know how to describe an American Standard 4-40 screw any other way.  (In hindsight, I should have gotten my calipers and measured the hole size I want in proper units and this hole (sic) thread would be much shorter.

Am 15.01.2020 um 15:55 schrieb Stephen Mann:

  wrote:

 

That's a bit of a translation problem in the documentation (remember

EAGLE is a German product).

Markus

 

Really?  The About page says Eagle by Autodesk, and to open Eagle, I log on to an Autodesk account.  Autodesk is based in San Rafael, California.

 

But, growing up in this moronic Imperial system of inches and pounds, a 4-40 screw is remarkably normal and generally needs no further definition. To be honest, I still don't know how to describe an American Standard 4-40 screw any other way.  (In hindsight, I should have gotten my calipers and measured the hole size I want in proper units and this hole (sic) thread would be much shorter.

 

--

To view any images and attachments in this post, visit:

https://www.element14.com/community/message/287184

 

4-40 is not the full name for the screw thread.

It should be UNC 4-40.

The UNC thread (Unified Coarse Thread Series) is the American

coarse thread. It has a flank angle of 60 ° and is measured in

inches. ... The corresponding fine thread is known as a UNF

thread (Unified National Fine Thread Series).

Freundliche Grüße / Kind regards

Friedrich

-

... use NNTP://news.cadsoft.de and a

functional news reader like Thunderbird!

Am 15.01.2020 um 15:55 schrieb Stephen Mann:

Really?  The About page says Eagle by Autodesk, and to open Eagle, I log on to an Autodesk account.  Autodesk is based in San Rafael, California.

 

Long, long time ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EAGLE_(program)

Freundliche Grüße / Kind regards

Friedrich

-

... use NNTP://news.cadsoft.de and a

functional news reader like Thunderbird!