Additional import and export features

On 26.01.2012 01:32, Joe Mickley wrote:

  I badly need 2 items.

 

1.  An import function into librarys that can provide the mechanical structure for components.  Ideally, something like a DXF.importer into the

dimension layer.  Components that have mechanical features in addition to the basic part connection pads need a lot of effort to create.  This

is usually a duplicate effort from a mechanical design done outside of Eagle.

There are some tools that allow conversion from DXF to EAGLE script.

==> http://www.cadsoft.de/downloads/tools-and-converters

for example

  dxf2scr-1.zip  (for free)

  eagle_pcb_power_tools*.exe

2. An export function other than pixels out of the board layout.  Again, ideally DXF.  This would allow more precice integration of the finished

board into exernal CAD programs (That board has to go live someplace after it is done).  Currently I have to do a hack and plot out into HPGL,

then convert it to DXF.  This is imprecise and requires clean-up of the DXF to get critical dimensions correct.

 

Any recommendations?

 

Use DXF.ULP.

--

Mit freundlichen Gruessen / Best regards

Richard Hammerl

  CadSoft Support -- hotline@cadsoft.de

  FAQ: http://www.cadsoft.de/training/faq/

Am 26.01.2012 16:33, schrieb Richard Hammerl:

Use DXF.ULP.

The question about DXF output has been asked twelve billion times, and a

lot of users surely don't know that EAGLE can do a thing like that. And

why is that so? Because the DXF output is NOT available via the GUI.

Every user searches for a function like that

  - in the 'save' or 'save as' dialogs and

  - in the 'export' function (that's where it belongs).

DXF is nowhere mentioned -> Conclusion: EAGLE cannot do that.

For the DXF import, I can understand that CadSoft doesn't want to

program this, since it's quite some work. But for the DXF output: This

already HAS been programmed, so why not put it into the program proper

and make it available with the EXPORT command? Doing things with

external ULPs is something that the typical user doesn't want to fiddle

around with ('programming? aargh - I cannot do that!'). And why should

one be able to export to a bitmap with EXPORT in the first place, but

not to DXF? This doesn't seem a logical choice. Better to make it clear

and logical and nice and wonderful and let the user FIND that function

easily...

Andreas Weidner

Andreas Weidner wrote on Thu, 26 January 2012 11:30

Am 26.01.2012 16:33, schrieb Richard Hammerl:

Use DXF.ULP.

 

The question about DXF output has been asked twelve billion times, and

a

lot of users surely don't know that EAGLE can do a thing like that. And

 

why is that so? Because the DXF output is NOT available via the GUI.

Every user searches for a function like that

  - in the 'save' or 'save as' dialogs and

  - in the 'export' function (that's where it belongs).

DXF is nowhere mentioned -> Conclusion: EAGLE cannot do that.

 

For the DXF import, I can understand that CadSoft doesn't want to

program this, since it's quite some work. But for the DXF output: This

 

already HAS been programmed, so why not put it into the program proper

 

and make it available with the EXPORT command? Doing things with

external ULPs is something that the typical user doesn't want to fiddle

 

around with ('programming? aargh - I cannot do that!'). And why should

 

one be able to export to a bitmap with EXPORT in the first place, but

not to DXF? This doesn't seem a logical choice. Better to make it clear

 

and logical and nice and wonderful and let the user FIND that function

 

easily...

Hello Andreas,

In general, I agree with your analysis.  It's further complicated with the

"Save As..." option which really can only save with a new name, not any

other formats.  And then you have the CAM processor which also exports

data.

I would propose the following:

1)  Rename "Save As" as "Rename Design Files".  There are no options for

other formats which Save As often implies.  Plus, in SCH and PCB you rename

both files at the same time which isn't obvious either.

2)  Define a standard interface for ULP's that export design information

into different formats.  That way each exporting utility can use the same

interface (see below).  It will need to be dynamic and flexible but should

be able to be done.

3)  Create a sub-folder "export" in the ULP directory which EAGLE looks

for.  This should look in the first "export" folder in the ULP path so I

can create my own.  Or maybe looks in all folders, but then you have to

decide what to do with ULP's with the same name.  Either way, it should be

obvious and flexible.

4)  Extend the export current dialog (if you can call it that) when you

click on File->Export to be a full dialog.  When the export dialog is

created it can search through that folder and pre-populate the list of

available exporting options.  By selecting the one you want all the various

options are presented.

5)  Provide hooks for the CAM processor to be one of the exporting methods

so it is handled like every other exporting ULP.

With this, it would also be relatively easy to create one button to export

all required manufacturing data (gerbers, bom, xy data, dxf of outline,

..) which is greatly needed.

Now this won't be trivial and will take some thought to do it correctly.

The interface to an exporting ULP would need to be published so anyone can

create their own.  I'd suggest a similar interface for importing ULP's as

well.

It would provide a method for the user to easily add exporting ULP's

without having to do anything different (other than copy a file to a

particular place).  The GUI would take care of the rest.

Cheers,

James.

--

James Morrison  ~~~  Stratford Digital

Specializing in CadSoft EAGLE

• Online Sales to North America

• Electronic Design Services

• EAGLE Enterprise Toolkit

--

Web access to CadSoft support forums at www.eaglecentral.ca.  Where the CadSoft EAGLE community meets.

James Morrison wrote:

 

Now this won't be trivial and will take some thought to do it

correctly. The interface to an exporting ULP would need to be

published so anyone can create their own.  I'd suggest a similar

interface for importing ULP's as well.

 

It would provide a method for the user to easily add exporting ULP's

without having to do anything different (other than copy a file to a

particular place).  The GUI would take care of the rest.

 

Hi James

Would you please explain what you mean by;

"The  interface to an exporting ULP would need to be

published so anyone can create their own".

My interpretation of your suggestion was a user created ULP is placed into

the 'export' folder and thus becomes listed in the export dialog for

selection.

Then I am thinking  that the ULP is simply selected and run and thus any

following dialogs/output are that of the ULP.

Integrating the Export dialog fully into Eagle, the native exports (bitmap)

and the ever-changing ULPs are launched in the same way. The user does not

know that some are native while others run a ULP.

I feel that the new native export dialog could have an alias function so a

new user only sees sensible text for the desired export  and not a ULP name.

Mind you this may not be necessary as when you place a copy of the ULP into

the export folder it can be renamed to the desired text of the dialog

(spaces may be an issue though). Other approaches exist like pre pending the

desired text to the file name and the Export dialog code parses the two

sections. The syntax of this would need to be published and perhaps this is

what you meant.

Warren

--

Viewed / responded via the newsgroup at

news.cadsoft.de

warrenbrayshaw wrote on Thu, 26 January 2012 15:11

James Morrison wrote:

 

 

Now this won't be trivial and will take some thought to do it

correctly. The interface to an exporting ULP would need to be

published so anyone can create their own.  I'd suggest a similar

interface for importing ULP's as well.

 

It would provide a method for the user to easily add exporting

ULP's

without having to do anything different (other than copy a file to

a

particular place).  The GUI would take care of the rest.

 

 

Hi James

 

Would you please explain what you mean by;

"The  interface to an exporting ULP would need to be

published so anyone can create their own".

Sure, what I mean is that the information that would need to be passed back

and forth would somehow be defined, like parameters to a function.  Perhaps

a structured kind of argc, argv.  Not sure.  The idea is that none of these

ULP's would need to have their own GUI interface, EAGLE itself would handle

that based on this interface and the details passed to it by the ULP.

For instance, a variable name would define the name that shows up in the

list of export functions, not just the ulp file name.  For some

translations, there are different options and these would be other

parameters that get passed back and forth.

This would mean that the exporting ULP's wouldn't have to spend any effort

on GUI design but rather on the translation in question.  It would help

keep things more consistent as well so things look the same for all the

exporting options to some degree.

Cheers,

James.

--

James Morrison  ~~~  Stratford Digital

Specializing in CadSoft EAGLE

• Online Sales to North America

• Electronic Design Services

• EAGLE Enterprise Toolkit

--

Web access to CadSoft support forums at www.eaglecentral.ca.  Where the CadSoft EAGLE community meets.

>> Hi James

>>

>> Would you please explain what you mean by;

>> "The  interface to an exporting ULP would need to be

>>  published so anyone can create their own".

>

Sure, what I mean is that the information that would need to be

passed back and forth would somehow be defined, like parameters to a

function.  Perhaps a structured kind of argc, argv.  Not sure.  The

idea is that none of these ULP's would need to have their own GUI

interface, EAGLE itself would handle that based on this interface and

the details passed to it by the ULP.

 

For instance, a variable name would define the name that shows up in

the list of export functions, not just the ulp file name.  For some

translations, there are different options and these would be other

parameters that get passed back and forth.

 

This would mean that the exporting ULP's wouldn't have to spend any

effort on GUI design but rather on the translation in question.  It

would help keep things more consistent as well so things look the

same for all the exporting options to some degree.

 

Thanks for the explanation.

My first thoughts are for a script/text file  to be placed alongside each

ULP placed in the 'export folder and has the same name with only the

extension different.. MyULP.ulp and MyULP.uli (for example).

This contains .ini information for Eagle. I see difficulties providing many

options for a common Export dialog  natively built with the correct number

of option controls as defined by the ULP. Trouble is, at this point, the ULP

is customising the native dialog and possibly in a quite complex way.  I

would expect some  ULPs will need to provide dialogs if they need option

selection and only the simple load and go types will  use a simple default

dialog if they indicate via ULP.uli that they require its assistance

So a basic dialog could be displayed with file source and destination fields

seeded by the MyULP.uli file if it ordered it.

A check box may exist to indicate that the source file is the current editor

Currently when the user selects File/Export.you see a selection of what can

be exported from that editor.

Imagine extending this dialog with a line below which is a list of our ULP

export choices. Some will be greyed out if they do not apply to this editor.

Which editor they apply to can be another of the things contained within the

MyULP.uli file

Then the user selects a conversion type. What happens next depends on how

this functionality is ultimately implemented.

1) The ULP could simply run.

2) A native dialog opens enabling the selection of input and output files.

These are passed to the ULP as args.

Obviously there is more to be thought through and other approaches

considered.

Warren

--

Viewed / responded via the newsgroup at

news.cadsoft.de

Am 27.01.2012 00:40, schrieb Warren Brayshaw:

Then the user selects a conversion type. What happens next depends on how

this functionality is ultimately implemented.

1) The ULP could simply run.

The idea of providing a complete programming interface for exports is

nice, but it is QUITE some work to implement such a thing, and I think

CadSoft has enough things to do at the moment. Additionally, the GUI

necessities for every export are DIFFERENT!

E.g., an export into SVG or PDF could have a switch to enable or disable

transparency, but ALWAYS exports the correct line widths. For DXF, the

transparency box would NOT be available, but the line width might be

left out of the exported file (as already implemented by CadSoft). An

export to a special drilling machine would need lots of other options.

CadSoft just cannot (and should not) provide a programming interface

with standardised GUI for that.

The simplest (and, in my opinion, the best) thing would be to provide

the possibility to include any ULP into the export GUI. Clicking on this

menu item would just start the ULP, that's it. Primitive, easy, and

using all possibilities of ULPs...

Andreas Weidner