Change layer during routing?

On 12.02.2021 22:29, Rick Hormigo wrote:

I am sure that you may already know this after an infinite Trump era later, but in addition to Layer, many optical mouses these days have that "middle" button in the wheel. Pressuring the wheel down, that  sometimes is a pain since interferes with zoom in/out if you rotate the wheel as you push down.

This also has an issue that I believe Eagle has poorly addressed, at least I am not aware of a way to set this: If the board has more than four routing layers, it won't toggle directly. Instead, shows a dialog to select first what layer you want to toggle to, in case of internal layers are used for routing. In my opinion this should be optional or setable somehow, otherwise you waste time in that. Most designs for Eagle I do are 2 or 4 layers that have minimal or not internal routing, mostly planes. And If I wan do more complex stuff with 6 or more layers and lots of tiny parts, I prefer a more serious tool with more basic features as multiple highlight nets and at least a database behind for parts.

I had this issue with my Logitech M-U00007 mouse. The scrollwheel has a

button to add "click" fricktion to the wheel, wich helps a bit. But my

biggest problem was that this mouse has additional

sideways click functionality on the scroll wheel. I had to open my mouse

physically (like any electronic engineer would do I guess) and disable

those switches to be able to work with Eagle (7.7).

I am sure that you may already know this after an infinite Trump era later, but in addition to Layer, many optical mouses these days have that "middle" button in the wheel. Pressuring the wheel down, that  sometimes is a pain since interferes with zoom in/out if you rotate the wheel as you push down.

This also has an issue that I believe Eagle has poorly addressed, at least I am not aware of a way to set this: If the board has more than four routing layers, it won't toggle directly. Instead, shows a dialog to select first what layer you want to toggle to, in case of internal layers are used for routing. In my opinion this should be optional or setable somehow, otherwise you waste time in that. Most designs for Eagle I do are 2 or 4 layers that have minimal or not internal routing, mostly planes. And If I want to do more complex stuff with 6 or more layers and lots of tiny parts, I prefer a more serious tool with more basic features as multiple highlight nets and at least a database behind for parts.

Am 30.05.2016 um 19:35 schrieb Lix Paulian:

..because "that" program costs over ten times so much as Eagle and I don't have that money for it. On the other hand, I don't think that cost is an excuse for a bad UI.

 

Anyway, due to guys like you I won't bother to post anything here (although I have to say there also kind persons around, like Rachael); there are a couple of guys  that keep repeating all the same that Eagle has the best UI in the world, how cool it is to do things in the command line etc. etc. It seems you missed the boat: you are living in the past. The man-to-machine interface is getting always better (think not only GUIs, but Siri, Cortana, etc.); otherwise we would still type today commands in a DOS terminal.

 

Wake up!

 

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I know it's always the others fault (what else). But it's always people

like you that buy a program and then complain  that it isn't exactly

working like you want it. A program comes like it is, so take it or

leave it. What is wrong saying that?

I don't like some things in windows but do you think that Microsoft

gives a damn on my  meaning? So it is again up to me to use it or don't

use it.

Besides this has imo nothing to do with "changing layers".

You should  open a different thread for complaining gui.

--

Mit freundlichen Grüßen / With best regards

Joern Paschedag

Am 30.05.2016 um 19:35 schrieb Lix Paulian:

..because "that" program costs over ten times so much as Eagle and I don't have that money for it. On the other hand, I don't think that cost is an excuse for a bad UI.

 

Anyway, due to guys like you I won't bother to post anything here (although I have to say there also kind persons around, like Rachael); there are a couple of guys  that keep repeating all the same that Eagle has the best UI in the world, how cool it is to do things in the command line etc. etc. It seems you missed the boat: you are living in the past. The man-to-machine interface is getting always better (think not only GUIs, but Siri, Cortana, etc.); otherwise we would still type today commands in a DOS terminal.

 

Wake up!

 

--

To view any images and attachments in this post, visit:

https://www.element14.com/community/message/198364

 

I know it's always the others fault (what else). But it's always people

like you that buy a program and then complain  that it isn't exactly

working like you want it. A program comes like it is, so take it or

leave it. What is wrong saying that?

I don't like some things in windows but do you think that Microsoft

gives a damn on my  meaning? So it is again up to me to use it or don't

use it.

Besides this has imo nothing to do with "changing layers".

You should  open a different thread for complaining gui.

--

Mit freundlichen Grüßen / With best regards

Joern Paschedag

Lix Paulian wrote:

 

Anyway, due to guys like you I won't bother to post anything here

Hi Lix,

There's no need to abandon the community. There will always be people to try and help you in future if you need it :-) It's very easy in an online forum for things to get heated and become confrontational. Don't take it to heart, just in future don't try to change EAGLE all at once. There are UI issues, but it's not all bad and there are lots of different people who's usage suits the way it works. I'm sure reasoned suggestions for select improvements will get taken onboard if explained the right way.

Best Regards,

Rachael

Agreed. But keep typing at your DOS prompt.

On 30/05/16 18:35, Lix Paulian wrote:

It seems you missed the boat: you are living in the past. The man-to-machine interface is getting always better (think not only GUIs, but Siri, Cortana, etc.); otherwise we would still type today commands in a DOS terminal.

You really are a sad victim of modernism, aren't you. New does not

always equal improved.

...because "that" program costs over ten times so much as Eagle and I don't have that money for it. On the other hand, I don't think that cost is an excuse for a bad UI.

Anyway, due to guys like you I won't bother to post anything here (although I have to say there also kind persons around, like Rachael); there are a couple of guys  that keep repeating all the same that Eagle has the best UI in the world, how cool it is to do things in the command line etc. etc. It seems you missed the boat: you are living in the past. The man-to-machine interface is getting always better (think not only GUIs, but Siri, Cortana, etc.); otherwise we would still type today commands in a DOS terminal.

Wake up!

PS: I must clarify: there is no connection between my employer and me using Eagle, as I use it privately. At my job we use the "over ten times so much" CAD suite. Just to set things straight.

Lix Paulian wrote on Thu, 26 May 2016 16:51

Not only that I don't use a three button mouse, I don't use a mouse at

all (since three years now). I know that many people can't believe this,

but a multitouch track pad is (in my opinion and with sone training) far

superior to any mouse, no matter how many buttons it has. So don't tell

me "buy a decent mouse".

OK, then buy a decent trackball.

You whine about Eagle having a non-standard (as if there is such a thing as

a standard GUI) interface, but you insist on using it with a non-standard

GUI device.  GUI devices have evolved to three buttons for a reason.

Software now makes use of that and even expects it.  Complaining about the

software not following convention but then yourself not following

convention is rather hypocritical.

Eagle's interactions are much better than any other complicated program I

use.  Your "standard" GUI seems to get worse and worse in usability over

time.  Each new version of MS Word, for instance, is more difficult to use

than the previous.  More and more things get harder to do from the keyboard

and require ever more clickety-clicking.

You don't need to use the right-click context menu in Eagle at all.  Once

you graduate past the annoying "standard" GUI conventions and start using

Eagle in its most efficient way, you'll find things are a lot faster.  The

only thing I can think of that I use the right mouse button for in Eagle is

to create a group, for example.

What makes the Eagle UI so powerful and efficient is that everything is a

command that has a text representation.  The GUI is layered on that.  This

means you can keep your hands on the keyboard where things are much faster

to do than with the mouse.  You can generally type just the first three

letter of a command, and of course assign arbitrary sequences of commands

to hot keys.  With 12 function keys alone, you get 12 command sequences

immediately at your fingertips, and another 24 by additionally holding down

Shift or Ctrl.

Note that any of these keys can be a command sequence, which includes

running scripts or ULPs.  The lesser-used complicated operations are only a

three-letter command ("SCR" or "RUN") away.  This leaves the slower mouse

interactions for things that are inherently graphical.  In a "standard"

GUI, way too much has to be done with the mouse or buried deep down in

menus that take many keystrokes to get to.  No thanks.

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Am 27.05.2016 um 16:28 schrieb Lix Paulian:

I am not sure I can follow this idea of Eagle is doing certain operations better by not using a standard interface. In my view this is a legend which seems to be quite common in the Eagle community. I can't imagine anything that currently Eagle does, that can't be done at least as efficiently (if not easier) by using standard UI concepts. I am working for large company that does professional cine & video cameras and accessories (those used for filming most of the Hollywood blockbusters) and of course we do have GUIs on our products. But: we have a professional especially hired to design GUIs through the whole product line, so that we remain consistent. And believe me, one of the factors our customers prise, is the ease of use of our products. I doubt CadSoft has such a professional...

 

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Well if you like the UI of a different program better then why don't you

get that program and stop whining about the eagle UI.

Eagle is effective because it HAS a different UI.

--

Mit freundlichen Grüßen / With best regards

Joern Paschedag